Kobe or Timmy...Best Player of their Generation?

[tlance]

Tim has already won with 3 different casts. This year's group is pretty similar to 2 years ago. I would still say Duncan was the lead dog then, certainly not this year, but I am not sure how you can say Kobe was the main guy for those first 3 rings. IMO, it was pretty clear Shaw was the man. The reason that they did not get along was because of the constant power struggle between them.

 

[trojanfan12]

They don't need to play the same position for you to see that Timmy has a greater impact defensively than Kobe. Bottom line is that Timmy does more to impede the other team from scoring points. He has a career defensive rating of 96. If there's one thing I'm sure of in comparing Kobe and Duncan, it's that Duncan is the greater defensive player.

Of course he does. He's 7 feet tall. All he has to do is stand in the paint with his hands up and he's going to impede the other team from scoring points. As a guard, Kobe is defending the perimeter. That's why they aren't comparable. It's completely different positions with completely different skill sets.

You making that "impedes the other team from scoring more than Kobe" would be like me saying that Kobe's a better defender because Timmy can't guard players out at the 3 point line.

 

[trojanfan12]

While you can't directly compare, I do think it is fair to say Duncan has had a greater impact defensively simply because he is big.

Maybe. Being big definitely has it's advantages in basketball.

What a big does defensively is more obvious because it shows up a lot more in the box score in the form of blocked shots, altered shots and defensive rebounds. It's also more easily observed by fans because there isn't more exciting defensive play than seeing a big go up and throw some poor guys shot into the 3rd row.

A guards impact is more subtle. It's about forcing guys off of their preferred spots, forcing them to give up the ball and/or preventing them from getting the ball. About the only truly measurable defensive stat for a guard is steals.

Bottom line, from a defensive standpoint, I'd take either one and be very happy because I know that either one is going to greatly improve that part of my defense.

 

[trojanfan12]

Tim has already won with 3 different casts. This year's group is pretty similar to 2 years ago. I would still say Duncan was the lead dog then, certainly not this year, but I am not sure how you can say Kobe was the main guy for those first 3 rings. IMO, it was pretty clear Shaw was the man. The reason that they did not get along was because of the constant power struggle between them.

Shaq and Kobe were pretty much equally responsible for the titles they won together. Shaq was definitely more of the leader in those years because he was also the older/veteran player. Shaq was more dominant than Kobe in the finals each of those years, but in at least 2 of those years, the Lakers wouldn't have gotten out of the west if not for Kobe.

They started not getting along as Kobe grew into a veteran player. He started taking issue with the fact that Shaq would come into training camp out of shape and wouldn't have necessary medical treatments in the off-season, saying "I got hurt on company time. I'm gonna heal on company time." Kobe didn't think that set a good example. Shaq has since said that he should have listened to Kobe. Shaq has also said that Kobe was not the reason he left. He left because of money.

 

[tlance]

They would not have gotten out of the West without either player for sure.

Jordan would never have won without Pippen either, just sayin'

 

[Kold]

I've always said that I'll never say that anybody is wrong for choosing Duncan, but my choice is Kobe. As far as consistency, Duncan has had 1 coach, 1 gm, and 1 owner, for most, if not all of his career. Plus, he has never saw a rebuilding year in his entire career. He also has a coach that has managed his minutes throughout his entire career. I'm not saying that the greatness of Tim Duncan couldn't have overcome any odds, but when you look at Kobe, he's had to overcome a whole lot more in my opinion throughout his career.

 

[huskers1217]

Has Kobe even won a single playoff series without Phil?? Has Michael Jordan?

Maybe Kobe wouldn't have any titles without Phil and half the career.

He might have been Tracy McGrady. Any year without Phil, Kobe looks eerily similar to T-Mac results.

As for Popovich, he did not win a damn thing when he coached without Timmy that first year.

would phil have won anything if not for kobe and/or jordan?

 

[Kold]

As for the Kobe/Shaq stuff, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Go look at the stats in the 2nd and 3rd years of that run before you make the case that Kobe was a "robin". My only question is this. If it's all about Finals mvp's, why don't we have these discussions about Duncan, as Parker, and Kawhi won the last 2 Finals Mvp's?

EDIT- As for who's the better defender. I don't know how to judge that. I mean, Tim Duncan is a GREAT rim protector, but I don't know how we compare that to a guard. As for Kobe, I've seen him not only guard his position, but also have to do the Lebron deal, and take on guys like Mike Bibby, Allen Iverson, Tony Parker, and many other point guards that were killing Derek Fisher. He's even had to take on other small forwards as well. I'm pretty sure Tim has had to take on centers, and power forwards as well at some point, so I don't quite know how to compare the two.

 

[RobToxin]

I would love to be biased but come on man....

When you look at total all-around basketball player, it's not Timmy.

Duncan was certainly the greatest in his generation at what he does but he doesn't have the full range of game that Kobe had.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

I go Duncan, because he not only played great basketball, he turned a crap organization into the best in sports. Yes the front office has a lot to do with that, but Duncan took what Robinson started and set the tone that everybody in that organization was accountable, and the only goal was winning. Even at his old age he's a huge part of one of the top 3 teams in the league, and has a legit shot at #6.

 

[trojanfan12]

but Duncan took what Robinson started and set the tone that everybody in that organization was accountable, and the only goal was winning.

As great a player as The Admiral was, I think his greatest legacy is how he embraced Timmy, took him under his wing and taught him how to be a professional. That set the tone that has kept the Spurs at, or near the top of the NBA for the past 2 decades.