Kaepernick's Potential Contract Extension

[imac_21]

What the fuck did he do?

Set a few records, Was the QB on a team that went to the Super Bowl (produced 373 total yards, 2 TDs and 31 points in a loss). Somehow the team gave up 34 points and the loss gets hung on Kap for the last play.

The next year he was the QB on a team that lost in the NFCC game.

He lost to what might be the best defense since the 2000 Ravens.

He was 14/24 (58.3%), for 154 yards (6.4 ypa), 1 TD, 2 INT, QBR 65.1, passer rating 56.4, 11 carries, 130 yards, (11.8ypc) and 17 points.

The week before, against the same defense, Drew Brees (who you have said deserves the big money he gets) was 24/43 (55.8%), for 309 yards (7.2 ypa), 1 TD, QBR 39.4, passer rating 86.3, 0 carries for 0 yards and 15 points.

The week after, in the Super Bowl (on a neutral field), Peyton Manning, who is also allegedly worth his contract, was 34/49 (69%) for 280 yards (5.7 ypa), 1 TD, 2 INT, 24.4 QBR, 73.5 passer rating, 1 carry for 0 yards (0ypc), and 8 points.

So his team scored more points than two of the most prolific offenses in the league, he had a higher QBR than two of the premiere passers in the league, and he was the only one of the three QBs to have his team in a position to win late.

I wonder, if he had thrown that pass to Crabtree 6 inches farther what song people would be singing?

 

[imac_21]

No actually, I like how they negotiate contracts... Just like how Kap hasn't got an extension with one year left to play.

You know he wasn't eligible for an extension until this year right? It's been roughly a month that an extension has been a possibility, and word is they are talking about one.

 

[badazzk9]

Set a few records, Was the QB on a team that went to the Super Bowl (produced 373 total yards, 2 TDs and 31 points in a loss). Somehow the team gave up 34 points and the loss gets hung on Kap for the last play.

The next year he was the QB on a team that lost in the NFCC game.

He lost to what might be the best defense since the 2000 Ravens.

He was 14/24 (58.3%), for 154 yards (6.4 ypa), 1 TD, 2 INT, QBR 65.1, passer rating 56.4, 11 carries, 130 yards, (11.8ypc) and 17 points.

The week before, against the same defense, Drew Brees (who you have said deserves the big money he gets) was 24/43 (55.8%), for 309 yards (7.2 ypa), 1 TD, QBR 39.4, passer rating 86.3, 0 carries for 0 yards and 15 points.

The week after, in the Super Bowl (on a neutral field), Peyton Manning, who is also allegedly worth his contract, was 34/49 (69%) for 280 yards (5.7 ypa), 1 TD, 2 INT, 24.4 QBR, 73.5 passer rating, 1 carry for 0 yards (0ypc), and 8 points.

So his team scored more points than two of the most prolific offenses in the league, he had a higher QBR than two of the premiere passers in the league, and he was the only one of the three QBs to have his team in a position to win late.

I wonder, if he had thrown that pass to Crabtree 6 inches farther what song people would be singing?

I'll give the credit to the system and team he plays for. It also helps when you play that team multiple times a year. How'd that turn out the first time they playe?

There you go with those ifs again... If only I had a dollar for each one.

 

[badazzk9]

You know he wasn't eligible for an extension until this year right? It's been roughly a month that an extension has been a possibility, and word is they are talking about one.

Yes, and he still doesn't have one.

 

[imac_21]

I'll give the credit to the system and team he plays for. It also helps when you play that team multiple times a year. How'd that turn out the first time they playe?

There you go with those ifs again... If only I had a dollar for each one.

Of course. The Broncos and Saints had bad offensive systems that their other-worldly QBs were able to overcome. Kaepernick is a product of the system. Had we put Colt McCoy out there this year we would have had the exact same season.

I do like now that the anti-Kap crowd has dismissed the offensive system as a reason for his low passing numbers, but embraces it as the reason for any success he's had. Apparently anyone can lead the 49ers to the NFCC game if Harbaugh is the coach.

I guess this remains constant with the praise for Greg Roman on this board throughout the year. No one ever complained about Roman's play calling of conservative nature because that system is what has made us a successful team.

And did you really just say I'm using "ifs" again? How many times have you said that waiting allows us to evaluate him next year and IF he plays poorly we can give him a lower contract, IF he plays well we pay him more, and IF we can't get an agreement we can tag him?

The don't-sign-Kap-now crowd is living on the concept of "if." Hypocrite.

 

[imac_21]

Yes, and he still doesn't have one.

So you're essentially impressed with Baalke and Marrathe's ability to follow league rules. That's a low bar.

 

[RedneckNiner]

I like Kaep however I do not think he is worth 18 million plus a year. He makes some plays and at times looks like an elite QB if he continues to grow maybe he will be in that tier. But he still has problems getting the plays called in time or reading the defenses properly. He still tends to be a one read QB and thus far has limitations. I would hold off signing him for another year and let him have another year to earn the big contract or prove he is not worth it. That said if a team was like Houston was willing to pony up a large haul of draft picks for him... I would be sorely tempted to take it.

 

[MHSL82]

I wonder, if he had thrown that pass to Crabtree 6 inches farther what song people would be singing?

I think Sherman would have jumped later. It might have gotten there. It would have been sweet to shut Sherman up. The 6 inches would have been at a different trajectory. If it were caught, we'd be asking why he hasn't gotten the extension yet. If KW fumbled twice, Smith would have gotten more than 3 years, 24 million. People would still call him Dilfer but call him a champion (maybe with defense). We might still have Singletary in 2011 if Troy Smith didn't play the last Rams game. Etc. Etc.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

Was reading through this thread today. Here's what I took out of an earlier argument. Gore had a 4.1 yard ave. Lmj had a 4.9 yard ave. Therefore Lmj > gore. This is an extreme example to make a point of extrapolating ypa out over one season when the number of attempts are night and day. Similarly have a tough time with the argument the td/int ratio stats would similarly hold if these two qb's we're asked to do two completely different roles. Therefore, assuming kap would keep those ratios in tact if asked to increase passing attemps significantly is a leap of faith, and assuming Stanford's ratios wouldnt wouldn't improve when not asked not to do nearly as much is also a leap of faith. A ball control offense qb should have a better td/int ratio because he's asked to.

 

[badazzk9]

Of course. The Broncos and Saints had bad offensive systems that their other-worldly QBs were able to overcome. Kaepernick is a product of the system. Had we put Colt McCoy out there this year we would have had the exact same season.

Yes Kap is a product of a winning system and the pieces around him.

I do like now that the anti-Kap crowd has dismissed the offensive system as a reason for his low passing numbers, but embraces it as the reason for any success he's had. Apparently anyone can lead the 49ers to the NFCC game if Harbaugh is the coach.

I haven't quoted numbers just his play. As I referred to him as Mr. One read many times and his greats contribution this year was his legs NOT being a QB. I've said this before stats are for baseball not football. Though you keep bring stats in here like its spam mail. To Harbaugh and the 9ers credit it appears they can.

I guess this remains constant with the praise for Greg Roman on this board throughout the year. No one ever complained about Roman's play calling of conservative nature because that system is what has made us a successful team.

Play calling or the lack of Kaps ability known by the coaches and viewed by the world. Read option took the league by surprise 2012, Kaps one read lock on or 4 vert and run was 2013, what is 2014 going to bring?

And did you really just say I'm using "ifs" again? How many times have you said that waiting allows us to evaluate him next year and IF he plays poorly we can give him a lower contract, IF he plays well we pay him more, and IF we can't get an agreement we can tag him?


The don't-sign-Kap-now crowd is living on the concept of "if." Hypocrite.

Yes 3 solid measurable IFs all of which give reasons to not sign him now, not your lets play fantasy 1000 IFs we don't sign him. This seems alot more reasonable then the Lets-sign-kap-now-at-all-costs-defenders-of-Kaps-honor.

 

[-AC-]

I still can't figure out how people can justify Stafford's contract...

What is he now, 2-27 versus winning teams? Something like that anyway, he was 1-23 coming into this season. Him and the Lions managed to beat the Aaron Rodgers-less Packers who finished the season at 8-7-1, so kudos to Stafford and company for getting that second victory against a winning team during Stafford's career!

I know, I know... "it's a team game" and all of those losses can't be squarely put on Stafford, right? Even though the Lions defense was not as bad as previous seasons (it managed to be 16th in the league in total defense and 15th in scoring defense) they seemed to play well enough to assume the high octane Lions offense lead by Stafford would surely take care of business, right? I mean they had their division in their sights, right? Green Bay didn't have Rodgers, Chicago didn't have Cutler, and the Vikings were terrible... Who knew Stafford and company would fall apart in such an epic way? I read some where that Stafford threw picks in 7 of the last 9 games including 6 in the 4th quarter. Definitely worth the money, right?

I guess its all good though... Apparently, because Stafford throws for a ton of yards he has justified that big contract of his, and not much else matters in certain peoples eyes... I think people need to go and actually watch some Detroit games (the MNF game against the Ravens is a fun one) instead of just turning over Stafford's football card and drooling over his bloated stats...

 

[purguy12]

IMAC is 100% right. Great post. People cant see the facts they just want to hate.

 

[purguy12]

I still can't figure out how people can justify Stafford's contract...

What is he now, 2-27 versus winning teams? Something like that anyway, he was 1-23 coming into this season. Him and the Lions managed to beat the Aaron Rodgers-less Packers who finished the season at 8-7-1, so kudos to Stafford and company for getting that second victory against a winning team during Stafford's career!

I know, I know... "it's a team game" and all of those losses can't be squarely put on Stafford, right? Even though the Lions defense was not as bad as previous seasons (it managed to be 16th in the league in total defense and 15th in scoring defense) they seemed to play well enough to assume the high octane Lions offense lead by Stafford would surely take care of business, right? I mean they had their division in their sights, right? Green Bay didn't have Rodgers, Chicago didn't have Cutler, and the Vikings were terrible... Who knew Stafford and company would fall apart in such an epic way? I read some where that Stafford threw picks in 7 of the last 9 games including 6 in the 4th quarter. Definitely worth the money, right?

I guess its all good though... Apparently, because Stafford throws for a ton of yards he has justified that big contract of his, and not much else matters in certain peoples eyes... I think people need to go and actually watch some Detroit games (the MNF game against the Ravens is a fun one) instead of just turning over Stafford's football card and drooling over his bloated stats...

AC also don't forget he has the best WR in the game on his team where he just throws it up to him.

 

[MHSL82]

AC also don't forget he has the best WR in the game on his team where he just throws it up to him.

But he has a really strong arm and can side-arm it whenever he wants, even if it doesn't make sense to do so! Who wouldn't want him as your QB? Just kidding. Someone made a comment how Matt's are bad luck for the NFL - Matt Cassel, Matt Leinart, Matt Hasselbeck (injuries), etc. Maybe Matt Stafford is there, too.

Seriously though, he isn't as bad as I made it sound, but he does have a huge contract and no results, we'll see if the new coach can work with him well.

 

[imac_21]

One more time, for those with short attention spans (I have no problem continuing to spam this thread with this information if people continue to argue we can't afford Kaepernick at ~18-20M per year and keep other high profile players).

2014 Cap situations for teams with high value QBs:

Atlanta - Ryan has a cap figure of 17.5M; Atl has a shade over 25M in cap room
Baltimore - Flacco = 14.8; team space = 24.9M (Ngata = 16M, Webb = 10.5)
Chicago - Cutler = 22.5; team space = 8.6
Denver - Peyton = 17.5; team space = 22.26
Detroit - Stafford = 15.8; team space = 11M (Suh = 22, Calvin = 13)
GB - Rodgers = 17.9; team space = 35M
NE - Brady = 14.8; team space = 12.7
NO - Brees = 18.4; team space = 2.7 (Jahri Evans = 11M, Ben Grubbs = 9.1, Colston = 8.3, Graham = 7.3// that's 20M tied up in guards and 15.5 in targets for Brees despite Brees' huge number)
NYG - Eli = 20.4; team space = 18.1 (6 other players with cap hits of 7M+, including one at 11M for Chris Snee)
NYJ - Sanchez = 13.1M; team space = 32M (2 other players over 10M)
Pitt - Roehtlisberger = 18.9; team space = 2.7M (3 other players at 11.8+, and 14M in dead money)
SD - Rivers = 16.7; team space = 4.9M (about 12M in dead money)
StL - Bradford = 17.6M; team space = 10.5 (Chris Long - 14.9M, Laurinaitis = 10.4M, Jake Long = 9.25 and Jared Cook = 7M)

 

[Rvnight18]

One more time, for those with short attention spans (I have no problem continuing to spam this thread with this information if people continue to argue we can't afford Kaepernick at ~18-20M per year and keep other high profile players).

2014 Cap situations for teams with high value QBs:

Atlanta - Ryan has a cap figure of 17.5M; Atl has a shade over 25M in cap room
Baltimore - Flacco = 14.8; team space = 24.9M (Ngata = 16M, Webb = 10.5)
Chicago - Cutler = 22.5; team space = 8.6
Denver - Peyton = 17.5; team space = 22.26
Detroit - Stafford = 15.8; team space = 11M (Suh = 22, Calvin = 13)
GB - Rodgers = 17.9; team space = 35M
NE - Brady = 14.8; team space = 12.7
NO - Brees = 18.4; team space = 2.7 (Jahri Evans = 11M, Ben Grubbs = 9.1, Colston = 8.3, Graham = 7.3// that's 20M tied up in guards and 15.5 in targets for Brees despite Brees' huge number)
NYG - Eli = 20.4; team space = 18.1 (6 other players with cap hits of 7M+, including one at 11M for Chris Snee)
NYJ - Sanchez = 13.1M; team space = 32M (2 other players over 10M)
Pitt - Roehtlisberger = 18.9; team space = 2.7M (3 other players at 11.8+, and 14M in dead money)
SD - Rivers = 16.7; team space = 4.9M (about 12M in dead money)
StL - Bradford = 17.6M; team space = 10.5 (Chris Long - 14.9M, Laurinaitis = 10.4M, Jake Long = 9.25 and Jared Cook = 7M)

Not to mention that the cap space for next year, if it goes up by $10 million again like the reports say, is sitting around $50 million...

 

[deep9er]

One more time, for those with short attention spans (I have no problem continuing to spam this thread with this information if people continue to argue we can't afford Kaepernick at ~18-20M per year and keep other high profile players).

2014 Cap situations for teams with high value QBs:

Atlanta - Ryan has a cap figure of 17.5M; Atl has a shade over 25M in cap room
Baltimore - Flacco = 14.8; team space = 24.9M (Ngata = 16M, Webb = 10.5)
Chicago - Cutler = 22.5; team space = 8.6
Denver - Peyton = 17.5; team space = 22.26
Detroit - Stafford = 15.8; team space = 11M (Suh = 22, Calvin = 13)
GB - Rodgers = 17.9; team space = 35M
NE - Brady = 14.8; team space = 12.7
NO - Brees = 18.4; team space = 2.7 (Jahri Evans = 11M, Ben Grubbs = 9.1, Colston = 8.3, Graham = 7.3// that's 20M tied up in guards and 15.5 in targets for Brees despite Brees' huge number)
NYG - Eli = 20.4; team space = 18.1 (6 other players with cap hits of 7M+, including one at 11M for Chris Snee)
NYJ - Sanchez = 13.1M; team space = 32M (2 other players over 10M)
Pitt - Roehtlisberger = 18.9; team space = 2.7M (3 other players at 11.8+, and 14M in dead money)
SD - Rivers = 16.7; team space = 4.9M (about 12M in dead money)
StL - Bradford = 17.6M; team space = 10.5 (Chris Long - 14.9M, Laurinaitis = 10.4M, Jake Long = 9.25 and Jared Cook = 7M)

can we keep Kaep at $18-20/year? of course we can, but the above premise is wrong. we do not have just two other players with big contracts. we already have more top players with good contracts, and three more top players about to get larger contracts. the 49ers have a deep roster and more Pro Bowlers than these teams.

 

[badazzk9]

San Francisco 49ers ? Niner Insider Blog » The triple option on Colin Kaepernick?s contract

 

[imac_21]

can we keep Kaep at $18-20/year? of course we can, but the above premise is wrong. we do not have just two other players with big contracts. we already have more top players with good contracts, and three more top players about to get larger contracts. the 49ers have a deep roster and more Pro Bowlers than these teams.

Did you bother to read closely, or just skim? In the very post you quoted it includes other big contracts for other teams. The biggest cap hit on our roster for 2015 right now is 8.7M. That would be the 4th largest cap hit in New Orleans, 5th highest in St Louis, at least 4th highest in Baltimore, at least 4th in Detroit (somehow they can afford Stafford despite the 22M cap hit Suh has), 5th in Pitt (they have 4 guys at 11.8M each next year, plus 14M in dead money).

Many of the teams I listed have multiple massive contracts. Those that don't have lots of cap space in which they could add contracts.

If you're not going to bother to absorb the information presented, don't bother commenting.

 

[MHSL82]

San Francisco 49ers ? Niner Insider Blog » The triple option on Colin Kaepernick?s contract

I guess there are three options but more possibilities. He says we could wait it out and resign him for 22 million or more next year. He states it as a certainty that waiting will up his price, as opposed to level it off if we don't win enough with him. But then, when he says an option is a two year deal, he presents the possibility that he doesn't succeed in those two years (plus the possibility of succeeding).

The truth is, he could succeed or fail regardless of how much we sign him for. That would change the price, whether we wait or sign a two year deal now. Good or bad. Signing him now to 14-16 as an option is presented because he argues that Kaepernick doesn't deserve what he's asking (his words). But that's not an option because Kaepernick has basically turned that down. That's no more of an option than Kaepernick signing for 24 million - because the Niners wouldn't accept that.

I guess maybe I'm nitpicking the word option that was more used as a play on words than an actual option the Niners are choosing. The Niners have the option of signing for too much and Kaepernick has the option to sign for too little, but other than that option sounds too much like either side has a unilateral choice.

Yes, that was nitpicking, but not deleting it now.