Jordan Spieth, a has been at 23 years old ?..

[Shanemansj13]

No, standouts.

*Embarrassments

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The kid blazed through his amateur career and set the tour on fire at 21 years old in 2015.
Since then he has should no ability to manage expectations.
He hasn't sniffed a major title since that great run, he is over par in majors since 2015.

He wouldn't be the first to not have the makeup to sty on top. I can't recall another golfer being great at 21 and average at 23 though. Johnny Miller might come closest.

I think Phil actually won a tour event as an amateur...won a lot as a pro early, but didn't win his 1st major until he was 35 or 36. Sergio is 37.

Tiger was a unique player...anybody thinking that his career was anywhere near the standard for a successful tour player is having dreams of grandeur....think about it like this.

The HOF entry point is 20 wins and 1 or 2 majors. Spieth has 9 wins and 2 majors and he's not yet 24 y/o. If he doesn't win another major but bags at least 11 more PGAT wins, he's a HOFer.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I disagree... Tiger would not have been as dominant against these great young golfers as he was 15 years ago. The competition is much more intense now.

Tough call either way really. Tiger shattered many scoring records. On the other hand, he really created this new era of young players coming out and having the confidence to win right away.

Because of the equipment changes and the new physical regime players have today...I would tend to say he would not have been as dominant, but to date, we have not seen a tour player in this new post Tiger era with a game as complete as Tiger's was in his prime.

 

[GNG]

Because of the equipment changes and the new physical regime players have today...I would tend to say he would not have been as dominant, but to date, we have not seen a tour player in this new post Tiger era with a game as complete as Tiger's was in his prime.

Tiger had few elite competitors when he was winning those majors and the kids today have a much tougher task. When Jack was winning majors the competition was intense with players like Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Seve Ballesteros, Nick Faldo, Lee Trevino and Greg Norman. In fact Nicklaus could hit his drives over 300 yards using a persimmon wood. I wonder how many of today's players could do that with the type of clubs used then.

 

[beardown07]

Tiger had few elite competitors when he was winning those majors and the kids today have a much tougher task. When Jack was winning majors the competition was intense with players like Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Seve Ballesteros, Nick Faldo, Lee Trevino and Greg Norman. In fact Nicklaus could hit his drives over 300 yards using a persimmon wood. I wonder how many of today's players could do that with the type of clubs used then.

steel shafts and real woods...golden bear is the GOAT, and there ain't no one close.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

In fact Nicklaus could hit his drives over 300 yards using a persimmon wood. I wonder how many of today's players could do that with the type of clubs used then.

Troof. Greg Norman once hit a range ball over the net with a wood wood. These guys today that can bang it 300 with Titanium wouldn't have been near as long with that old equipment

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Tiger had few elite competitors when he was winning those majors and the kids today have a much tougher task. When Jack was winning majors the competition was intense with players like Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Seve Ballesteros, Nick Faldo, Lee Trevino and Greg Norman. In fact Nicklaus could hit his drives over 300 yards using a persimmon wood. I wonder how many of today's players could do that with the type of clubs used then.

In Nicklaus' prime you basically had Player, Watson, Billy Casper, Trevino, a brief run with Miller. Arnie was a factor when Jack 1st came out, but he was at the end when Jack really hit his prime. Arnie's last major win was '64 and Jack's 1st major win was '62.

I think Jack had about 8 guys to really think about in his prime when it came to the majors. But those guys racked up a lot of major wins between them. Norman, Seve, Faldo, Price, Langer, those guys competed with Jack, but they were are at the end of Jack's run.

What was weird about Tiger's run was the HOF or near HOF guys that were supposed to be his major competition, DL3, Couples, Leonard, Janzen, Daly, Sutton, Els, Montgomerie, Mickelson, Duval, Singh they all wilted for the most part. A lot of the guys that pushed or beat Tiger in the majors will never sniff the HOF.

Equipment...considering that guys like DL3 and Couples kind of transitioned the persimmon era to modern day stuff...I think the young guys would like it fine if they grew up playing it.

 

[Zooky]

Nicklaus could drive it 350 with the old equipment and balata golf balls. It is documented.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Troof. Greg Norman once hit a range ball over the net with a wood wood. These guys today that can bang it 300 with Titanium wouldn't have been near as long with that old equipment

I think a long player today like a DJ, etc, would have been a long player with the old equipment if they grew up playing with it...but the avg tour guy hitting it 300?...no. Zach Johnson would not be hitting 300 yd drives with the old stuff.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

I think a long player today like a DJ, etc, would have been a long player with the old equipment if they grew up playing with it...but the avg tour guy hitting it 300?...no. Zach Johnson would not be hitting 300 yd drives with the old stuff.

Good point.

I have a set of four MacGregor woods. I've hit them on the range, and the farthest I ever hit the 1 was about 220, 230, with a modern ball. MAN, does it feel good when you hit one right on the screws...the feedback is incredible.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

steel shafts and real woods...golden bear is the GOAT, and there ain't no one close.

I don't agree with no one close, but I agree Jack was/is the GOAT.

Years ago I talked to some of the old guys down at East Lake...caddies some of them, they say they've seen them all from Snead, Hogan, Arnie, Palmer, Jack, Woods. You just sit and listen to them talk...you don't know if it's all true, but as a golfer it sounds good so you just soak it up. Most of them say from '99 to about '04 Tiger was the best player they'd ever seen play...period...but he flamed out. He couldn't do what Jack did even though he tried to copy a Jack-like schedule.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Good point.

I have a set of four MacGregor woods. I've hit them on the range, and the farthest I ever hit the 1 was about 220, 230, with a modern ball. MAN, does it feel good when you hit one right on the screws...the feedback is incredible.

My neighbor's dad left him a set of Wilson persimmons...he didn't even play much golf...we took them to the range a few times...the old saying hit it on the screws was literal...I could pump one out there 230 if I center clubface...maybe 175 on a mishit.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

My neighbor's dad left him a set of Wilson persimmons...he didn't even play much golf...we took them to the range a few times...the old saying hit it on the screws was literal...I could pump one out there 230 if I center clubface...maybe 175 on a mishit.

The most fun I had with those clubs was with the 4-Wood. When I hit it neat, the ball would just climb the ladder, about 160, 170 on some good strikes.

 

[beardown07]

I don't agree with no one close, but I agree Jack was/is the GOAT.

Years ago I talked to some of the old guys down at East Lake...caddies some of them, they say they've seen them all from Snead, Hogan, Arnie, Palmer, Jack, Woods. You just sit and listen to them talk...you don't know if it's all true, but as a golfer it sounds good so you just soak it up. Most of them say from '99 to about '04 Tiger was the best player they'd ever seen play...period...but he flamed out. He couldn't do what Jack did even though he tried to copy a Jack-like schedule.

That's when the steroids turned on him.


Better equipment, better sports science, better steroids...


The records show, that no one really is all that close. I realize there is some opinion fudge-room there, but the numbers don't lie, as they say. Closest in major wins is Tiger, and there is a very good chance he will never win another. Arguably, even more impressive, is Jack's 2nd place finishes in majors. Good chance nobody will ever touch that record.

Tiger's run was awesome, and something the sport really needed at the time, but most new it wouldn't last, with that overly-aggressive swing of his. But as impressive as that burst was, I think Jack run of longevity is even more impressive.

Just my $0.02

 

[ATL96Steeler]

That's when the steroids turned on him.


Better equipment, better sports science, better steroids...


The records show, that no one really is all that close. I realize there is some opinion fudge-room there, but the numbers don't lie, as they say. Closest in major wins is Tiger, and there is a very good chance he will never win another. Arguably, even more impressive, is Jack's 2nd place finishes in majors. Good chance nobody will ever touch that record.

Tiger's run was awesome, and something the sport really needed at the time, but most new it wouldn't last, with that overly-aggressive swing of his. But as impressive as that burst was, I think Jack run of longevity is even more impressive.

Just my $0.02

Fair.

I'm a fan of Tiger's game, no question, but a much bigger fan of the game so I'm not that biased when it comes this. And have had a chase to meet Mr Nicklaus and I'm still in awe to this day...he's not nearly as big as you might think, but looks like he could've been a RB in his younger days.

I think Tiger was much closer than you're giving him credit for. He won more tournaments than Jack, he was certainly more dominant than Jack. I'm way more impressed with the 18 major wins than the 2nd place finishes...when you really dig into those, he made a charge on the final day and passed a lot of players, but may not have really been in contention.

Tiger was long, certainly longer than his competition, but he was playing with "old" stuff compared to his competition until he started playing Nike...the 'roids (alleged, but I can believe it) don't help you hit it inside 10' and make so many stupid putts so that don't take no shine off his game imo.

You said it best here...Tiger's super hard swing was never going to last long term...his rail thin lower body and yoked up upper body. (FWIW I don;t think Rory's is going to last that long either). The longevity and 18 is really what separates Jack from Tiger and everyone else.

 

[beardown07]

Fair.

I'm a fan of Tiger's game, no question, but a much bigger fan of the game so I'm not that biased when it comes this. And have had a chase to meet Mr Nicklaus and I'm still in awe to this day...he's not nearly as big as you might think, but looks like he could've been a RB in his younger days.

I think Tiger was much closer than you're giving him credit for. He won more tournaments than Jack, he was certainly more dominant than Jack. I'm way more impressed with the 18 major wins than the 2nd place finishes...when you really dig into those, he made a charge on the final day and passed a lot of players, but may not have really been in contention.

Tiger was long, certainly longer than his competition, but he was playing with "old" stuff compared to his competition until he started playing Nike...the 'roids (alleged, but I can believe it) don't help you hit it inside 10' and make so many stupid putts so that don't take no shine off his game imo.

You said it best here...Tiger's super hard swing was never going to last long term...his rail thin lower body and yoked up upper body. (FWIW I don;t think Rory's is going to last that long either). The longevity and 18 is really what separates Jack from Tiger and everyone else.

I will say this regarding steroids and technical sports such as golf. On the surface, enhanced strength doesn't have much to do with golf, however, it certainly has a lot to do with practicing golf. We all have heard about how many balls a day he'd hit during his run. I don't think there was anyone that didn't notice how beefed up and ripped he looked coming into whatever year that was?(slips my mind, but I just remember the tour starting and seeing him, and my eyes opening wide in shock at how big he suddenly appeared). Who knows if it's true, as it's just rumors and speculation, but it definitely makes sense, considering how quickly his body turned for the worse on him.

So, I do think there is a definite advantage to steroids in golf, just with regards to putting in the hours.

 

[beardown07]

Also, there were rumors of him taking nerve-calming drugs as well.


I could see that helping with putting and just focus in general.

 

[MTVike]

My neighbor's dad left him a set of Wilson persimmons...he didn't even play much golf...we took them to the range a few times...the old saying hit it on the screws was literal...I could pump one out there 230 if I center clubface...maybe 175 on a mishit.

They SOUNDED so good....My BIL got one of the last sets made 25 years ago or more and played them for a while. When the metal heads came in he abandoned them like everyone else. One day I asked what became of them..."Oh, I just hit rocks from the alley with them..."

WTF!

 

[MTVike]

Also, there were rumors of him taking nerve-calming drugs as well.


I could see that helping with putting and just focus in general.

I would think that drugs with sedative-type properties would dull mental clarity. Maybe slow down the heartbeat, but interfere with concentration?

 

[Tharvot]

Spieth winning majors may have just be a 1-year wonder. He's the Quad-father now.