Ideal draft scenarios

[tw1st3d]

I'm not predicting this to happen. Just making the case. Devil's advocate

oh I know ... that why I just posted my counter point

 

[jarntt]

You should work for ESPN, you left out part of my quote LOL. ''He could be the next Zach Thomas or the next Steve DeOssie''. Meaning Borland could be a Zach Thomas type(hard to imagine he will be a HOF player like Thomas) or he could be a guy who is just a really good special teams player. Thomas went in the 5th round despite the fact that he was a great college player, because he was about Borland's size, 5'11'' 245. Borland might have been worthy of a 2nd round pick on the chance he has a little Thomas in him, but the fact that teams are taking him off their boards because of his shoulder would keep me from spending a 2nd on him now

I did read your quote carefully. I interpreted your "or" differently than what you apparently meant. Example: If we take Bortles at #16 he could be the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. The two sides of the "or" don't need to be opposites, they can continue to reinforce an opinion. Any way, your next couple of comments also led me to believe that I was interpreting your "or" correctly, but you said it not me, so I'lll have to believe you and apologize for misreading it.

 

[fordman84]

LOL I hate talking trades on forum boards ....... In about 12 years of posting (here and ESPN) I've never once seen one guessed correctly.
So in other words when I see one posted ..... 99.9% sure that's a trade that wont happen

Jerry trades the entire 2014 draft for the #1 pick to take JFF.

 

[es4m11]

My debate with this would be There is no stand out Qb in this draft. Is there really a differen taking a Johnny Football or a Carr? Hell I will go as far to say .... is there a major drop off between those two and a guy like Mettenburger?

Me personally I don't think so.

Well if there is talk of the Browns liking Manziel enough to go with him at #4, I have to think that the Browns at least consider the idea of getting him later in the round in a trade up.

I don't think they have a shot at a top tier guy at #26. And Cleveland has tried developing QBs since they were reborn. Hasn't worked yet. Cleveland is on the verge of having a good team for the first time in a while. They have a solid defense already. Grab Robinson/Watkins at #4 and trade up with the Cowboys to get Manziel. Sign me up! If I'm a Browns fan.

 

[jarntt]

My debate with this would be There is no stand out Qb in this draft. Is there really a difference in taking a Johnny Football or a Carr? Hell I will go as far to say .... is there a major drop off between those two and a guy like Mettenburger?

Me personally I don't think so.

That is exactly how I feel about QB this year. If a team (Cle, Hou, etc) feels there is sure fire franchise QB that stands above all the others they are dumb to pass on them at #1, #4 or where ever. If you have a guy ranked that highly you do whatever it takes to get him. But, if the team feels like you and I do they might as well wait it out. This is exactly why I said I'd look to grab the last of the top 9 standing. I think McCarron is my favorite QB in this draft and other than myself I've seen his name on this board maybe 3 times. It all comes down to what the individual team thinks. One team may have Johnny Football the top player in the draft and another may have him a day 3 prospect.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I did read your quote carefully. I interpreted your "or" differently than what you apparently meant. Example: If we take Bortles at #16 he could be the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. The two sides of the "or" don't need to be opposites, they can continue to reinforce an opinion. Any way, your next couple of comments also led me to believe that I was interpreting your "or" correctly, but you said it not me, so I'lll have to believe you and apologize for misreading it.

No need to apologize Bro. I like the Hell out of Borland, and I loved Zach Thomas. Obviously, we have one of the top MLB's in the game, so Borland probably won't be an early target for us either way. If a scheme he would fit took him in the 2nd, say to Zimmer and the Vikings, I could see him tearing it up. I guess all the injury plagued guys Jerry has taken has me gun shy about a guy with physical limitations to begin with

 

[tw1st3d]

Well if there is talk of the Browns liking Manziel enough to go with him at #4, I have to think that the Browns at least consider the idea of getting him later in the round in a trade up.

I don't think they have a shot at a top tier guy at #26. And Cleveland has tried developing QBs since they were reborn. Hasn't worked yet. Cleveland is on the verge of having a good team for the first time in a while. They have a solid defense already. Grab Robinson/Watkins at #4 and trade up with the Cowboys to get Manziel. Sign me up! If I'm a Browns fan.

Unlike most I don't see a single Qb taken in the top 10 ..... I just don't

One thing I know about football is it goes in trends. You have Kap and Wilson leading teams to Superbowls which are the guys like Manziel

and you have the Andrew Lucks .... which go 1st

There'snot a single Qb in this draft worth a 1st round pick.... Damn sure not a high pick

Id I were the Browns .... and they aren't a good team. They do have pieces though. I take whoever I think is a superstar with my first pick. Hell TBH If I'm them I'm looking to trade down for the right price .
I think 1 of the top 3 Qbs is there at the bottom of the 1st. Too much talent at other positions in this draft and the Qb class is rather shabby

 

[UK Cowboy]

That is exactly how I feel about QB this year. If a team (Cle, Hou, etc) feels there is sure fire franchise QB that stands above all the others they are dumb to pass on them at #1, #4 or where ever. If you have a guy ranked that highly you do whatever it takes to get him. But, if the team feels like you and I do they might as well wait it out. This is exactly why I said I'd look to grab the last of the top 9 standing. I think McCarron is my favorite QB in this draft and other than myself I've seen his name on this board maybe 3 times. It all comes down to what the individual team thinks. One team may have Johnny Football the top player in the draft and another may have him a day 3 prospect.

100% agree, and that's why I think Cleveland wouldn't make that deal. What QB would you be looking at at 16 that you couldn't get the same guy or one with the same grade at 25?

 

[tw1st3d]

all the injury plagued guys Jerry has taken has me gun shy about a guy with physical limitations to begin with

I feel the same way

and not just the guys we have taken lately ....... we have got serious injury issues on this team. The past two years ........eerrrrrrrrrrr

I pass

 

[tw1st3d]

100% agree, and that's why I think Cleveland wouldn't make that deal. What QB would you be looking at at 16 that you couldn't get the same guy or one with the same grade at 25?

Hell which Qb with the same grade couldn't you get in the 2nd?

 

[jarntt]

To me, considering Cleveland also has #4 overall, Dallas would have to give up more or I wouldn't do that deal at all. If you look at the guys that are projected at 16 and 25, they are basically the same grade.

According to the mocks, but maybe not according to the teams. I always say we lump all these guys in as comparable and interchangeable, but often the teams after months of scrutiny have them ranked completely differently. Let's say we have Donald ranked as high as some people think we do. If so, there is no way we make that trade if he's there because the difference between 16 and 25 is absolutely huge. But, let's say the team thinks Ward is the top safety and that all 3 safeties are pretty close. If so then we probably want to go the trade route like you said because now 16 and 25 become pretty close. I am a big believe in not trading back if you have a guy you like. I'd rather just take him and not risk losing him. The only time I trade back is when I like no one or in the unlikely scenario that I have enough guys ranked exactly the same and the number of spots I move back is less than the number of guys I have ranked the same.

I think we will see more trades than ever this year. There is just so much talent and the QBs and WRs may be the cause for teams to trade just a few spots. So I think you will see alot of teams moving up 5 or so spots to grab a QB, WR or OL that drops . With the depth of the draft I don't see teams needing to give up a lot to move way up. I see them more moving up a little to guarantee the guy they like, knowing that if they don't move up there is another good player to take.

 

[es4m11]

100% agree, and that's why I think Cleveland wouldn't make that deal. What QB would you be looking at at 16 that you couldn't get the same guy or one with the same grade at 25?

One aspect that I think may be overlooked in this decision as it relates to the Browns is revenue. As Cowboys fans we rarely consider the business side of things, being fans of such a popular franchise. But I think ticket and merchandise sales may come into play for Cleveland. Johnny Football is a STAR. And in my estimation is a top 3 QB in this class. But this is a loaded draft class and Manziel might fall.

 

[jarntt]

Jerry trades the entire 2014 draft for the #1 pick to take JFF.

Don't even joke about things like that...Our entire draft sitting on the bench for 2 plus years in the deepest draft in recent memory!!!

 

[PDay8810]

I know teams go get "their guy" every year IF they have concerns he won't be there when they pick again. I also think they don't give a rats ass how the kipper's have players rated.


I have no interest in these QB's, but I bet NFL teams don't have these 9 QB's bunched together talent wise as many of you do. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[tw1st3d]

According to the mocks, but maybe not according to the teams. I always say we lump all these guys in as comparable and interchangeable, but often the teams after months of scrutiny have them ranked completely differently. Let's say we have Donald ranked as high as some people think we do. If so, there is no way we make that trade if he's there because the difference between 16 and 25 is absolutely huge. But, let's say the team thinks Ward is the top safety and that all 3 safeties are pretty close. If so then we probably want to go the trade route like you said because now 16 and 25 become pretty close. I am a big believe in not trading back if you have a guy you like. I'd rather just take him and not risk losing him. The only time I trade back is when I like no one or in the unlikely scenario that I have enough guys ranked exactly the same and the number of spots I move back is less than the number of guys I have ranked the same.

I think we will see more trades than ever this year. There is just so much talent and the QBs and WRs may be the cause for teams to trade just a few spots. So I think you will see alot of teams moving up 5 or so spots to grab a QB, WR or OL that drops . With the depth of the draft I don't see teams needing to give up a lot to move way up. I see them more moving up a little to guarantee the guy they like, knowing that if they don't move up there is another good player to take.

WOW I think opposite but because of the same reason

I think less trades than ever..... because of the depth of the draft.

 

[jarntt]

Well if there is talk of the Browns liking Manziel enough to go with him at #4, I have to think that the Browns at least consider the idea of getting him later in the round in a trade up.

I don't think they have a shot at a top tier guy at #26. And Cleveland has tried developing QBs since they were reborn. Hasn't worked yet. Cleveland is on the verge of having a good team for the first time in a while. They have a solid defense already. Grab Robinson/Watkins at #4 and trade up with the Cowboys to get Manziel. Sign me up! If I'm a Browns fan.

How about Robinson at #4. Best WR to drop at #26 (and there will be a great WR prospect there) to play next to Gordon and the best of what QBs are left at the very top of the 2nd? And still more early picks to get more talent.

I think Cle could really upgrade their team if they play their cards right.

 

[Eastbay]

Unlike most I don't see a single Qb taken in the top 10 ..... I just don't


All it will take is for one team to take a QB early & the other QB needy teams will follow suit. This would be the best case scenario for the Cowboys

 

[tw1st3d]

All it will take is for one team to take a QB early & the other QB needy teams will follow suit. This would be the best case scenario for the Cowboys

true ..... but I see the run coming after the top 10 ..... right in our range

On most teams this would be ideal ..... I'm not one that has faith when it comes to Jerry trades. I'd trust myself more after 18 beers to pull a better trade than Jerry

 

[es4m11]

To be honest, I really dont care how this draft works out as long as Dallas can land Clinton-dix and a quality pass rusber in the 2nd. Im going to pray on it for the next week.

 

[jarntt]

I know teams go get "their guy" every year IF they have concerns he won't be there when they pick again. I also think they don't give a rats ass how the kipper's have players rated.


I have no interest in these QB's, but I bet NFL teams don't have these 9 QB's bunched together talent wise as many of you do. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

That's kind of my point. If they have a QB ranked above all others (which IS what the Kiper's have) they will do what is necessary to get him and take one early. If they have them alot closer like I do, then why bother? It doesn't have to be all 9 though. it could just be QBs #2-4 or even QBs #4 and 5. If Cle loves Bortles and Jacks takes him and they don't like any of the next 3 enough more than the others to justify passing on a Watkins or Robinson to get him, they won't use the pick there. It doesn't necessarily mean they see those next 3 the same, just that they see them CLOSE ENOUGH to prefer getting a top guy at 4 and then looking for one of those 3 a little later.

My guess is when all of this shakes out 2 or 3 QBs still go in the top 10 and that is good news for us