Ian Rapoport NFLN: Bears have "Buyers Remorse", wanted to bench Jay at halftime of TB game

[averagejoe]

I don't get it. Your answer to the problem, is just to allow to continue to spiral? What Kromer did was absolutely wrong. Regardless of your opinion of Jay.

Let me clarify. Feelings of distrust exist in every locker room, on every team. There is no way that every player gets along with every other player or coach. Just like in our day-to-day jobs. But I'm sure most will take the high road and tolerate their coworkers.

In front of the camera or next to a reporter is a different story. "No problems." "We get along." And "I respect him." The politically correct cover-up. But every so often, frustration boils over. Like with Kromer.

I don't know of too many companies that could legally or justifiably fire someone just because of an unwritten rule like this. But the NFL is not your typical company.

 

[anotheridiot]

I'm wondering though with this... the complaint from Kromer was that Kromer would call a run play, the run play would be bad, and Jay wouldn't check out of it at the line of scrimmage? Meanwhile, we seem to barely run the ball as it is and the "experts" all bitch and moan about us not showing enough commitment to it.

For the crowd out there saying "Kromer is being punished for speaking the truth", how do you reconcile this? Also, can we agree that the problem wasn't whether what he said was truthful or not, but rather that he took it to the media anonymously instead of manning up to the players/coaches and telling them directly?

This is a bizarre situation. Kromer should be excused before the Saints game and either Trestman should assume the OC duties or promote Cavanaugh. In the off season, this team will have a lot of reorganizing to do. I think the team is like an alcoholic who just hit bottom.

I never looked at it this way. I was looking at it as Jay checking out of too many run plays. Maybe he gets to the sideline and is told, Jay, we gotta run the football, so jay goes back and sticks to the run and gets nothing just to prove it didnt work. This is the same deal with martz not letting him change plays.

Its basing the decision that our elite quarterback knows when his line is gonna actually block to get positive yardage with a run play. It seems pretty simple to some of us, if the run to the left is not gonna work because the defense is leaning left, then a run to the right should work. Same play, we are not going left, we are going right. Jay just checks out and throws a pass to forte past the line.

As far as assuming OC duties, I thought gameday pretty much had Trestman doing the OC duties calling the plays. Last week I was posting to take play calling away from trestman so he can pay attention to other head coaching decisions. Now no way Kromer would be allowed to call plays.

If you want to go all conspiracy theory on this, all the cries for Kromer to be the interim coach are gone now, its another tactic to save Trestmans job?

As far as Kromer, if he was speaking off the record to the reporter, he might not have expected all this.

 

[anotheridiot]

Actually, I think Jay is incredibly intelligent football-wise. He's always had that rep amongst his teammates.

I just think he has a stubborn/shitty attitude, and doesn't do what coaches want to see when it comes to adjusting the play at the LOS.

Those two statements contradict themselves. If he is incredibly intelligent, there would be no problem with what the coaches want to see adjusting the play.

Its what Martz saw that did not allow him to adjust plays. Martz system always had three or four choices for each play based on the defense. There was never a chance to have to call audibles. Either the safety chased left or right, leaving single coverage on a receiver.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Couple things that have been brought up or inferred in this thread...and in the media.
"Cutler is a coach killer. He's gotten a number of OC's & 2 Head Coaches fired"

Whatever you feel about Jay or his play- none of former Chicago OC's have gone on to other OC jobs or much success. (save for former QB coach Pep Hamilton...who has had all world Andrew Luck as his College and now Pro QB...and is still being questioned about his play calling.)


Denver:
2006-08: Rick Dennison: Now the OC for Houston... how's that look: Good? Defense was ranked 30th in '08 the 8-8 record did in Shananhan *Cutler was voted to Probowl.

Chicago:
2009: Turner- His last gig as an NFL OC was in CHI in 09. He is now the HC for Florida International University. (pep hamilton as qb coach/rookie coach) Ranked 19th. Def. ranked 21st.

2010-11: Mike Martz- Has not coached since. Jay was sacked 75 times in 25 games... Jay had a 17-8 record- from Wikipedia: Martz reportedly resigned over philosophical differences with Bears head coach Lovie Smith.

2012: Mike Tice: His one and only season as an OC. Is now an offensive line coach for one of the worst olines in the NFL. If I remember correctly he was hired as OC because- nobody would come for an interview, fearing Lovie was a lame duck coach. It was also reported at the time that he could run Martz's system and terminology (sound familiar?) with more focus on running the ball and protection.

all of these guys have also had success elsewhere as well. Pretty hard to find careerist professional NFL coaches who don't have mixed track records, almost all of them do. It's really not an argument for anything, other than they didn't ride Cutler to glory.

 

[nebearsfan70]

At this point, I don't think Cutler is the QB that will take the Bears to the promise land. There is too much animosity inside Halas Hall and Cutler is in the midst of it all. The clusterfuck that is now the Bears organization continues to spiral into obscurity. As ESPN reporter Jeff Dickerson surmised, the Bears are the worst NFL team money can buy.

This shit will take years to fix,from top to bottom. This is the '90s all over again.

 

[richig07]

At this point, I don't think Cutler is the QB that will take the Bears to the promise land. There is too much animosity inside Halas Hall and Cutler is in the midst of it all. The clusterfuck that is now the Bears organization continues to spiral into obscurity. As ESPN reporter Jeff Dickerson surmised, the Bears are the worst NFL team money can buy.

This shit will take years to fix,from top to bottom. This is the '90s all over again.

No, it's not. I mean, it could be… but only if horribly wrong moves continue to be made. This isn't Major League Baseball. It does not require years and years to fix teams in bad situations. This is a league where 1 and 2 win teams turn around the next year and go to the playoffs under a new HC regime, or even win the super bowl in Dallas's case.

I'm not saying this team WILL be good next year, or the year after. However, to dismiss them from being able to do anything is absolutely silly.

Hell… this team is two or three plays from being over .500 as we sit here today. That's the biggest mistake fans make, I'd say. Not realizing how small the difference is between a 6-10 team and a 10-6 team. Just a few bounces.

Get rid of the staff, and you could look up and see a team next year playing with an entirely different attitude. We've seen it happen all over the league. Hell, we even saw it happen under Lovie. You're telling me after 03 when Jauron was fired, that you thought the Bears win a division title in two years, and then go to the Super Bowl in three? I don't think so…

 

[AmericanTebowFan]

That's so true Rich. If Cutler had not thrown the late INT in the Buffalo game and Forte had not fumbled late in the Carolina game, this team is 7-6 instead of 5-8 right now. That's just 2 plays. And who knows how much differently this season would have turned out had they won those 2 games. Football is a game of momentum and confidence. You could see them lose confidence after those losses. Maybe they would have been able to compete better against the top teams had they not lost those other games. Just a couple plays can turn a season because NFL is such a short season. It's not like baseball where a couple losses don't matter that much in a 162 game season. In the NFL 1 loss is a HUGE deal. Next season could be much better for this team with just a few changes.

 

[nebearsfan70]

No, it's not. I mean, it could be… but only if horribly wrong moves continue to be made. This isn't Major League Baseball. It does not require years and years to fix teams in bad situations. This is a league where 1 and 2 win teams turn around the next year and go to the playoffs under a new HC regime, or even win the super bowl in Dallas's case.

I'm not saying this team WILL be good next year, or the year after. However, to dismiss them from being able to do anything is absolutely silly.

Hell… this team is two or three plays from being over .500 as we sit here today. That's the biggest mistake fans make, I'd say. Not realizing how small the difference is between a 6-10 team and a 10-6 team. Just a few bounces.

Get rid of the staff, and you could look up and see a team next year playing with an entirely different attitude. We've seen it happen all over the league. Hell, we even saw it happen under Lovie. You're telling me after 03 when Jauron was fired, that you thought the Bears win a division title in two years, and then go to the Super Bowl in three? I don't think so…

The Bears are a few bounces from being 10-6?? This coming from a guy who says Marshall needs to go. The Bears are lucky to be 5-8 at this point, and they are a few bounces from being 2-11. Give me a break.

The Bears are not going to clean house this off-season, so you can expect the same shit next season. As long as Trestman is in Halas Hall, the Bears will be mediocre.

 

[toooverbearing]

The Bears are a few bounces from being 10-6?? This coming from a guy who says Marshall needs to go. The Bears are lucky to be 5-8 at this point, and they are a few bounces from being 2-11. Give me a break.

The Bears are not going to clean house this off-season, so you can expect the same shit next season. As long as Trestman is in Halas Hall, the Bears will be mediocre.

We are what our record says we are. We could have easily beat the Bills and Panthers while losing to the Jets and Niners. The rest were decisive outcomes.

 

[richig07]

The Bears are a few bounces from being 10-6?? This coming from a guy who says Marshall needs to go. The Bears are lucky to be 5-8 at this point, and they are a few bounces from being 2-11. Give me a break.

The Bears are not going to clean house this off-season, so you can expect the same shit next season. As long as Trestman is in Halas Hall, the Bears will be mediocre.

Did not say that. And I do think Marshall's actions are an issue. No longer convinced he needs to go. It was an overreaction. Even if I think the guy is an idiot, and possibly a loose cannon waiting to go off in a huge way.

No doubt they could be 2-11. However, they're also an untimely INT from Jay and Forte fumble away from being 7-6. Last year, they were a Gould wide-right in Minnesota, and a challenge reversal on an Alshon TD away vs DET away from being 10-6 vs 8-8.

The point, is that the difference between 6-10 and 10-6 can be very slim. It's a lot slimmer than you think. Some years, like in 2010 for us, you get lucky and catch them. Other years you do not. This year, the Bears are most certainly a 4-5 win team at this juncture. No one will dispute that.

And I agree about Trestman. I believe he is absolutely and 100% gone. After the Kromer incident, I would bet money on it.

And also… "This coming from a guy who thinks Marshall has to go". Really? Jesus Christ. It's always so emotional with you. I don't get it. Happy holidays NE. Cheers.

 

[richig07]

Those two statements contradict themselves. If he is incredibly intelligent, there would be no problem with what the coaches want to see adjusting the play.

That makes zero sense as to what I said.

What I meant was, Jay is very intelligent, but is a stubborn asshole.

If he disagrees with what coaches want, he'll run what he wants.

 

[averagejoe]

If he disagrees with what coaches want, he'll run what he wants.

Nothing against Rich, but I see this as a common thought on this board. I just wonder if there is media proof that it is all on Jay? Because if other reports are true that Jay has an "intelligent football mind" and he is doing his due diligence in the film room, how do we really know that Jay isn't calling the correct audible, but the line didn't block accordingly; or Forte didn't hit the right hole; or the reciever didn't hear it correctly and didn't adjust his route?

If the audible fails, in hindsight it's easy to conclude that they just should have run the play that was called.

The disappointment and frustration from fans seem to be converting assumptions to facts.

 

[anotheridiot]

Nothing against Rich, but I see this as a common thought on this board. I just wonder if there is media proof that it is all on Jay? Because if other reports are true that Jay has an "intelligent football mind" and he is doing his due diligence in the film room, how do we really know that Jay isn't calling the correct audible, but the line didn't block accordingly; or Forte didn't hit the right hole; or the reciever didn't hear it correctly and didn't adjust his route?

If the audible fails, in hindsight it's easy to conclude that they just should have run the play that was called.

The disappointment and frustration from fans seem to be converting assumptions to facts.

All we see is Jay moving back or up to or from center and yelling at the receivers so we are all thinking he changed from the play they called. Then you go to the run and pass ratio and know the coaches dont want 5 runs to 29 passes in a half of football.

We see far too many dump overt the lines to Forte, and that play is not terrible because he saves Forte big lineman hits and gets him to the second level. But eventually, every audible is a dump off to Forte.

Its all walking on eggshells with both sides, coaches didnt want to throw jay under the bus saying he is calling too many bad plays, jay doesnt want to throw the coaches under the bus so they end up taking the responsibility away from him.

 

[nebearsfan70]

Did not say that. And I do think Marshall's actions are an issue. No longer convinced he needs to go. It was an overreaction. Even if I think the guy is an idiot, and possibly a loose cannon waiting to go off in a huge way.

No doubt they could be 2-11. However, they're also an untimely INT from Jay and Forte fumble away from being 7-6. Last year, they were a Gould wide-right in Minnesota, and a challenge reversal on an Alshon TD away vs DET away from being 10-6 vs 8-8.

The point, is that the difference between 6-10 and 10-6 can be very slim. It's a lot slimmer than you think. Some years, like in 2010 for us, you get lucky and catch them. Other years you do not. This year, the Bears are most certainly a 4-5 win team at this juncture. No one will dispute that.

And I agree about Trestman. I believe he is absolutely and 100% gone. After the Kromer incident, I would bet money on it.

And also… "This coming from a guy who thinks Marshall has to go". Really? Jesus Christ. It's always so emotional with you. I don't get it. Happy holidays NE. Cheers.

Emotional? Give me a break.


Have a good holiday season. At least we agree on that.

 

[Wounded Bear]

Emotional? Give me a break.

I had to chuckle. I think, in psychology, they call that "projecting."

 

[nebearsfan70]

I had to chuckle. I think, in psychology, they call that "projecting."

Something like that.