how many of you didn't want Kaep to start before the season but do know?

[yossarian]

How exactly is Kap supposed to prove his ability to read defenses and pocket presence from the bench?

I'm not willing to gamble our season and a great defense that is aging on Kap's unknown ability to read defenses.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I'm not willing to gamble our season and a great defense that is aging on Kap's unknown ability to read defenses.

As opposed to Alex's known INability to read defenses?

Oh, I forgot. He can kill a play.

 

[yossarian]

Clyde the only thing I can say, is that Harbaugh has repeatedly said that Alex is really good at reading defenses and that is what sets him apart. I'm not saying that coaches never make mistakes regarding their qb, I still think Pete Carroll made a huge mistake in starting WIlson over Flynn, but are you really saying that someone with Harbaugh's track record in developing quarterbacks and coaching them either can't see that Kap is actually as good at reading defenses as Smith or that he sees it and for some unknown reason is insisting on starting Smith anyway?

 

[clyde_carbon]

Clyde the only thing I can say, is that Harbaugh has repeatedly said that Alex is really good at reading defenses and that is what sets him apart. I'm not saying that coaches never make mistakes regarding their qb, I still think Pete Carroll made a huge mistake in starting WIlson over Flynn, but are you really saying that someone with Harbaugh's track record in developing quarterbacks and coaching them either can't see that Kap is actually as good at reading defenses as Smith or that he sees it and for some unknown reason is insisting on starting Smith anyway?

I don't take anything Harbaugh says about any of our players seriously. He loves to fluff his players in public. He's always done it. That's his style.

On the field I see no evidence of Alex being "really good" at reading defenses.

 

[yossarian]

I don't take anything Harbaugh says about any of our players seriously. He loves to fluff his players in public. He's always done it. That's his style.

On the field I see no evidence of Alex being "really good" at reading defenses.

I agree, but then that means you must think that Harbaugh understands that Kap is better or at least as good at reading defenses as Smith but then is still refusing to start him, why would he do that?

 

[Bemular]

Clyde the only thing I can say, is that Harbaugh has repeatedly said that Alex is really good at reading defenses and that is what sets him apart. I'm not saying that coaches never make mistakes regarding their qb, I still think Pete Carroll made a huge mistake in starting WIlson over Flynn, but are you really saying that someone with Harbaugh's track record in developing quarterbacks and coaching them either can't see that Kap is actually as good at reading defenses as Smith or that he sees it and for some unknown reason is insisting on starting Smith anyway?

Not answering for Clyde, but I think you raise a good point Yossarian. I think Alex does a great job of reading a defense "pre-snap"; however, "post-snap" reads, "hot reads", "sight adjusts", I believe are a complete mystery to Smith. And when you combine post-snap confusion with poor pocket presence and poor vision you get Alex Smith.

Unless conditions are nearly perfect (vs. Buffalo) Smith will struggle. In difficult conditions the best we can hope for with Alex is that he manages the game and doesn't make mistakes that will cost us the game (vs. Giants). We simply need much better than that.

 

[yossarian]

Thanks Bemular, but lets assume that you're right about this, then either Kap is at least as good as Smith if not better at these other reads you mention -- and someone with Harbaugh's pedigree on qbs just couldn't see that in training camp or now and is making a colossal error in judgment, or he sees the same thing and for some reason is choosing to start Smith anyway. SO which of those possibilities do you believe?

 

[deep9er]

How exactly is Kap supposed to prove his ability to read defenses and pocket presence from the bench?

uh...he has entered games already. he is being worked into games and the next step is throwing passes. makes perfect sense to start to throwing passes too.

since we are able to - sort of - doesn't it makes sense to work him in? this as opposed to start him and HOPE like hell?

not defending Alex as the man, our future, whatever description you want. but do view him as the better option NOW. benching him in favor of Kap isn't warranted yet, that would be an "i hate Alex" decision as opposed to thinking who gives us the best chance next game.

 

[clyde_carbon]

uh...he has entered games already. he is being worked into games and the next step is throwing passes. makes perfect sense to start to throwing passes too.

since we are able to - sort of - doesn't it makes sense to work him in? this as opposed to start him and HOPE like hell?

not defending Alex as the man, our future, whatever description you want. but do view him as the better option NOW. benching him in favor of Kap isn't warranted yet, that would be an "i hate Alex" decision as opposed to thinking who gives us the best chance next game.

So with the work Kap's been given, you think you can get a good read on his ability to go through progressions and read defenses and his pocket presence?

BTW, not once have I said I want Kap to start immediately.

 

[Bemular]

Thanks Bemular, but lets assume that you're right about this, then either Kap is at least as good as Smith if not better at these other reads you mention -- and someone with Harbaugh's pedigree on qbs just couldn't see that in training camp or now and is making a colossal error in judgment, or he sees the same thing and for some reason is choosing to start Smith anyway. SO which of those possibilities do you believe?

I'm not sure either of those narratives define completely all there is to consider. I believe as long as we are winning, whether because of or despite Alex, we stay with Alex.

Kaepernick presents a different set of challenges as well as opportunities which will require commitments and changes to both practice routines and plays called.

 

[NinerSickness]

BTW, not once have I said I want Kap to start immediately.

I did.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I did.

I'm not gonna switch QBs when we're 5-2. BUT, Alex is on a very, very short leash, and I don't think Kap is gonna be completely lost out there as a lot of posters here seem to think so.

 

[deep9er]

We're 5-2 in the division, our closest competition is the Seahawks and the best they can do in the division is 3-3. I am pretty disappointed in Smith's ability to see open receivers, but I also think that we are discounting his ability to read a defense and make changes at the line of scrimmage. Kap might have the running and throwing skills, but I don't think he has that ability yet -- and before any smart ass says "How do you know?" because Harbaugh has said in the past that this skill is what sets Smith apart, and I trust Harbaugh's ability to run the qb position effectively. I think if Kap was ready to start Harbaugh would have started him by now. I agree we should do what we're doing, slowly get Kap involved, maybe give him a series now and then in a blowout, let him throw a pass a few times, but wait until the offseason to have a real qb competition, unless Smith completely falls off the deep end. I don't think we can say that about him yet.

yes, better said than i, there are other things to consider than his passes. no doubt Alex hasn't played well last two games, but still think he's the lesser of the evils?

yet, Harbaugh is still preparing Kap now, he isn't totally on the bench. Harbaugh has to go one step at a time because this TEAM is built for now. plus, we're in a tight West race.

 

[deep9er]

I'm not gonna switch QBs when we're 5-2. BUT, Alex is on a very, very short leash, and I don't think Kap is gonna be completely lost out there as a lot of posters here seem to think so.

why didn't you just say this earlier?

i'd think the majority of fans believe Alex Smith is on a short leash? 'short leash' meaning game to game, exactly what i've been saying.

this is why you give him game time now, so he is VERY comfortable with the 'speed of the game', reading D's, and soon....changing plays to pass.

 

[clyde_carbon]

why didn't you just say this earlier?

i'd think the majority of fans believe Alex Smith is on a short leash? 'short leash' meaning game to game, exactly what i've been saying.

this is why you give him game time now, so he is VERY comfortable with the 'speed of the game', reading D's, and soon....changing plays to pass.

Why does it matter? I'm just arguing against some of the BS excuses people are coming up with to save face with Alex. I also think the notions that Kap would be lost as our starter are baseless.

I've never - ever - seen a player have so much equity with a fan base when he's done very little on the field.

 

[yossarian]

Why does it matter? I'm just arguing against some of the BS excuses people are coming up with to save face with Alex. I also think the notions that Kap would be lost as our starter are baseless.

I've never - ever - seen a player have so much equity with a fan base when he's done very little on the field.

I also thought you were arguing that Smith should lose his starting job to Kap -- and you seem to be saying it again by arguing that Kap would not be lost as our starter.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I also thought you were arguing that Smith should lose his starting job to Kap -- and you seem to be saying it again by arguing that Kap would not be lost as our starter.

So because I don't think Kap would be as lost as some people think, I'm arguing that he SHOULD be the starter this week?

 

[Flyingiguana]

smith was overal having a good year before the injury. small steps forward from last year and i was expecting and i still expect improvements over the 2nd half of the season.

halfway through the giants game i thought kap shoulda been in there. smith just didn't look right with his throws and against seattle he looked like ken dorsey. u can claim it's making excuses, etc. i really dont give a shit, i just wanna win games and i don't want to lose because smith has an injured finger. i doubt we woulda been the giants anyways, but that seattle game was closer than it shoulda been.

 

[yossarian]

So because I don't think Kap would be as lost as some people think, I'm arguing that he SHOULD be the starter this week?

Fine, just sounds like you're backtracking a little bit. But now we can all sing kumbaya and agree that Smith should be the starter and that for right now he's a better option than Kap.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Fine, just sounds like you're backtracking a little bit. But now we can all sing kumbaya and agree that Smith should be the starter and that for right now he's a better option than Kap.

No, I'm not backtracking. I just don't think you can take out your starting QB when you're 5-2 and 2 games ahead in the division.

And I'm not convinced Alex is a better option than Kap. Not even close.