how do we fix this ?

[Caliskinsfan]

Wow - my bad. This board seems to be messed up at the current time & is not posting replies correctly via the Quote feature. Skinsdad & other mods - any idea what in the world is going on to cause this issue?

Every now and then a fluke like this occurs in a thread for no apparent reason. Ghost in the machine...

What I've done to correct is to look at the quote brackets before I post. Or edit the brackets when I notice the error in the post.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

its not that we are all the sudden jumping on the o line, thats just what caused the most debate. Skinsdad talked about basically everything in his original post. I bring up Haslett and some o linemen and boom its an o linemen thread. Haslett could definitely have his own thread but we've discussed him in the past so that would be nothing new.

Yep - unfortunately part of this is just a young team in transition. There are problems across the board. Again - you can't judge everything in a negative light just based on the Giants game. They are not SB contenders at this time. However - they are also not as bad as they appeared last Thu. As a matter of fact it wouldn't shock me if they beat the Giants later in the season (barring major injuries).

There are a fair amt of young players on this roster that will continue to make mistakes for a while. Sure they need an upgrade in talent, but they also need to further develop the players on the roster & the coaches also need to develop. It will be comical if this team upsets someone in the next month or so & all of sudden people starting singing the praises of the team to a certain extent. Such is the nature of fans.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Every now and then a fluke like this occurs in a thread for no apparent reason. Ghost in the machine...

What I've done to correct is to look at the quote brackets before I post. Or edit the brackets when I notice the error in the post.

I usually check those type of things. Also - it is quite often tough to edit your posts on this board. You are supposed to be given 5 minutes but sometimes this board allows a lot less time (sometimes none). No big deal.

 

[Sharkinva]

Again - give them a bit more time before forming a total conclusion. Not saying that they will be great by that time but either of them may be able to redeem themselves somewhat. Also - people seem to be going way overboard based on one game. No doubt your conclusion would have been different after the Eagles game & who knows - performances over the next 5-6 games my change your opinion somewhat.

Interesting that you make the comparison to Eli & Romo. Both of them have had bad years in the past & are seasoned vets so the comparison is not valid at this time. Also - both of them have better overall weapons & coaching staffs that have been in place longer. You need to give Gruden & staff more time before jumping all over them. Did you really expect that they were going to have everythign in order after week 4?

Again - a lot of what you are stating may be correct, but we need a larger sample. Trust me - I realize that it is frustrating as a Redskins fan, but we have to give this team more time.

Socal... Kirk looked like crap that last game. But I realize it was one game. Im not proclaiming him a waste at this time. My biggest issue is, constantly hearing how its all on the O-line. Do I think these guys are the best line out ther?? Nope. I think they are better than given credit for though. And I think if any of the Qbs we have given up multiple picks for over the last 15 or so years were even remotely worth the cost, this team would be much better than it has been. But i have been converted, I agree the line sucks. We should dump every resource available into it. I dont think the line is any more than average at best right now. I do firmly believe we bet on the wrong Qb and that helps make our line look worse. Despite Kirks bad performance last week, its odd that the line gave up only two sacks and Morris was rushing for over 5 yards a clip. I think had we not tried to force the pass so much in the 3rd quarter, the game would have at least turned out respectable.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Just to clarify - that was Shark's reply not mine. Lol - the way you posted it makes it appear otherwise.

Yeah I thought I was quoting Shark. I did notice that your posts looked a little weird too. Put that with a board that shut down over the weekend and again this morning and I feel right at home in the low rent district.

 

[skinsdad62]

i love you shark , i really do but tell me why is it an excuse that the o/line is bad when it is ?

other then trent williams who has been to the pro bowl on the redskins o/line in 10 years ?

and my OP mentioned about 10 things we needed to do not just bash the o/line

i have thrown stats out there that back my stance , on kickers etc and yet as much as we try it your way it fails

shoot what exactly is your way ? draft the "right " franchise qb and he makes up for poor LOS play , poor secondary play mediocre coaching ?

My post didnt mention Rg3 , or KC . In fact i am sure one of the 2 will do us very well

i have beat the drum for strong o/line play for over a decade and we havent done it and how will you ever know if we have drafted "the right" franchise qb ?

we did your philosophy of gutting 2 drafts to get a franchise qb . it failed!!!

 

[Sharkinva]

i love you shark , i really do but tell me why is it an excuse that the o/line is bad when it is ?

other then trent williams who has been to the pro bowl on the redskins o/line in 10 years ?

and my OP mentioned about 10 things we needed to do not just bash the o/line

i have thrown stats out there that back my stance , on kickers etc and yet as much as we try it your way it fails

shoot what exactly is your way ? draft the "right " franchise qb and he makes up for poor LOS play , poor secondary play mediocre coaching ?

My post didnt mention Rg3 , or KC . In fact i am sure one of the 2 will do us very well

i have beat the drum for strong o/line play for over a decade and we havent done it and how will you ever know if we have drafted "the right" franchise qb ?

we did your philosophy of gutting 2 drafts to get a franchise qb . it failed!!!

Skinsdad.. thing is, we had a good o-line and put a waste of a QB behind them. I admit we have not replaced that line, but I also admit I think we compounded that problem by putting another bad QB choice behind what is now not so good a line. we gutted the draft, but still dont have a franchise QB and havent fixed the line to boot.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Skinsdad.. thing is, we had a good o-line and put a waste of a QB behind them. I admit we have not replaced that line, but I also admit I think we compounded that problem by putting another bad QB choice behind what is now not so good a line. we gutted the draft, but still dont have a franchise QB and havent fixed the line to boot.

Don't understand why you are 100% giving up on both QBs at this time. What do you propose that the Skins do - get rid of both of them right now? That would be foolish until the time that both of them prove - without a doubt - that neither will ever make it as a quality QB. That has not occurred for either one yet so why not withhold your judgement at least till the end of the season?

I can understand your doubts about both. However - I believe that you take it to the extreme & almost appear to be hoping that both of them continue to fail for the rest of the season & possibly their careers. Cmon - have just a bit of patience.

 

[Sharkinva]

Socal... just because I expect certain players not to succeed oes not mean I hope they fail. I hope Im proven dead wrong and one of the two turns out to be the long time franchise QB this team needs. But I am seriously tired of seeing this team commit time and resources to flawed Qbs. It always seems that the guys who we know are going to need a little time and support at the position get neither, but the guys who are obviously flawed get a billion shots and a legion of defenders.

 

[cowboycolors]

From a division Rival fans perspective Dad is on the right track. Until Jerry Jones finally came partially to his senses and decided to invest in the unsexy picks on the DL Romo made the guys we had look way better than they were. Now with 3 #1 picks on the line and a good FA at LG we still need a RT but they are playing very well so far. Defense wins championships but a OL that can impose their will on the opponent and opens up the running game and eating up the clock goes a long way to making your "whole " team better.


Championship teams are built from the inside out on both sides of the ball IMHO.
Give Cousins a decent OL and see what he can do with Morris running the ball and keeping the defense honest.


Lots to do on both sides of the ball in DC and plenty to fix in Dallas so I'm not throwing rocks or trying to troll

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Socal... just because I expect certain players not to succeed oes not mean I hope they fail. I hope Im proven dead wrong and one of the two turns out to be the long time franchise QB this team needs. But I am seriously tired of seeing this team commit time and resources to flawed Qbs. It always seems that the guys who we know are going to need a little time and support at the position get neither, but the guys who are obviously flawed get a billion shots and a legion of defenders.

Fair enough. However - remember several things. First of all - RG3 did have quite a bit of success in his 1st year so it is not as if he is a total bum. If he returns this season & shows no improvement or gets hurt again - sure move on from him, but that is yet to be proven. Cousins has his chance over the next few months to redeem himself - it is all on him. Secondly high profile players - especially QBs - are always going to get more chances than others. This is true throughout the NFL. You can throw me in with some of those defenders. My take is that RG3 has big upside so why not give him at least a few more chances? Same to an extent with Cousins.

Who exactly did the Redskins toss away that was so worthy of more of their time? There may be some (which is true of most teams) but not many. Their biggest problem is finding talent not retaining it. What recent QB have they parted ways with that did well elsewhere? QB is a tough position & most NFL teams have failed in this area. Look how much the Bears gave up to get Cutler & yet he has plenty of flaws. He is very similar to Cousins in that respect. In many ways getting a good QB involves luck - consider the cases of the Pats, Seahawks & Saints. All of those 3 teams were very lucky to find their QBs & it involved various circumstances that occurred when they were acquired.

Given that fact we still don't know if perhaps either one of these guys might shock us and still be the long term answer. Time will tell.

 

[sublime4eva]

Dude... for the past 11or more years I have seen posters screaming its all the O-lines fault. I just want us to get to a point where people can stop bitching about the line and realize that this is NOT really our problem. So Im fine if we commit $90 million to the O-line next year just to get past this particular excuse point.

What hell do you mean it's not the line? It all starts at the line of scrimmage, the Dallas Cowboys are a good example of that, the last 3 yrs there 1st rd picks have been O-linemen and they one of the best lines in football, I'm not saying you have to use all your 1st rd picks doing that but they realize it all starts at the line. Thus fucking team has no direction and yes they didn't address the right side of the line in FA at All. But never mind what I say just look at the best teams in the league, they ALL have solid lines, ours is crap.

 

[sublime4eva]

Skinsdad.. thing is, we had a good o-line and put a waste of a QB behind them. I admit we have not replaced that line, but I also admit I think we compounded that problem by putting another bad QB choice behind what is now not so good a line. we gutted the draft, but still dont have a franchise QB and havent fixed the line to boot.

We haven't had a solid OLine since the early 90's lol

 

[Sharkinva]

We haven't had a solid OLine since the early 90's lol

We havent had a QB worth a fart since that time either.

 

[Stymietee]

I've been away for a bit and just now finished reading this entire thread. As requested, I'll be issuing a response to Dad's list in a little while. I believe that he asked for rebuttals to his "fix" some of which I agree with (OL, safety) However my focus will be on how to do it considering this cap era.

 

[skinsdad62]

Skinsdad.. thing is, we had a good o-line and put a waste of a QB behind them. I admit we have not replaced that line, but I also admit I think we compounded that problem by putting another bad QB choice behind what is now not so good a line. we gutted the draft, but still dont have a franchise QB and havent fixed the line to boot.

i beg to differ , we havent had a good o/line in a decade

 

[skinsdad62]

I've been away for a bit and just now finished reading this entire thread. As requested, I'll be issuing a response to Dad's list in a little while. I believe that he asked for rebuttals to his "fix" some of which I agree with (OL, safety) However my focus will be on how to do it considering this cap era.

well stymie we have forgotten but in the next few years we will have some cap space . we dont need expensive free agents to fill up the roster . all i am asking for is solid ones and we havent been able to do that

like i said we are set at Rb, wr Te Lt a couple of spots on the d/line,, LB and a couple of spots at CB

now are you telling me we cant draft/ sign a few players who can play in the o/line , safety , and d/line ?

if we build through the draft we can fill some spots up pretty decently

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I understand what Shark is trying to say. Brady's line isn't that good. Roth took a downright shitty OL to a championship. Griff took basically this same OL to a division title.. With great QB play you can overcome a crappy OL. And as we have seen here over the years even if you have a decent line, and we did have decent lines with Tre Johnson etc, if you don't have a QB behind them you are simply spinning your wheels.

But on the other side of the coin the way to develop young QBs is to offer them protection. We aren't doing that and it is hurting the progression of both. This situation plus as said early it's damned hard to find a QB tells us that we should not be throwing young QBs overboard before we know for sure because chances are the replacement will be worse.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I understand what Shark is trying to say. Brady's line isn't that good. Roth took a downright shitty OL to a championship. Griff took basically this same OL to a division title.. With great QB play you can overcome a crappy OL. And as we have seen here over the years even if you have a decent line, and we did have decent lines with Tre Johnson etc, if you don't have a QB behind them you are simply spinning your wheels.

But on the other side of the coin the way to develop young QBs is to offer them protection. We aren't doing that and it is hurting the progression of both. This situation plus as said early it's damned hard to find a QB tells us that we should not be throwing young QBs overboard before we know for sure because chances are the replacement will be worse.

Good points. The odds will suggest that the only probable way that you will find a better replacement QB will be to draft one very high or pay high $$ in free agency (when good QBs are usually not available). In either case you will have to suffer in obtaining players at other positions including O-line. Therefore - why not wait to see if your current QBs can get the job done.

You might get lucky & get a QB on the cheap (e.g. Brady or Wilson), but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Sharkinva]

Socal... IM fine with a wait and see. But Im not going to delude myself into thinking I see something I dont. Or more importantly that i dont see something which I do. Could either of our current Qbs turn into franchise QB's?? Sure... do I expect it from them. NO, and probably not.