how do we fix this ?

[SoCalWizFan]

Snyder's record speaks for itself. And yeah I too have concerns that he will never provide a winner because everything he touches turns to coal. He somehow brought back 2 multiple Super Bowl winners and they turned into Rich Kotite. I still have not recovered from Joe Gibbs calling the second timeout to cost us the Sean Taylor game. Easily one of the lowest times I have ever had as a fan. Snyder asks around the league and was told overwhelmingly that Bruce Allen is one of the best front office guys in the league. Allen arrives and nothing seems to change.

As I have stated numerous times ex-SB winning coaches generally do not make good head coaches in the NFL & this is true for teams other than the Redskins. The reasons are numerous. They include the fact that these guys are generally much older, they almost always demand more control than they had in previous job (e.g. also be a GM) & quite often they were previously successful due to other personnel in the org (e.g. GM like Beathard) or key players from previous team (e.g. Elway).

I have always maintained that I never want to see another ex-SB coach hired by the Redskins. No to Jon Gruden, Cowher, etc. Would rather see a younger guy who is only a coach. Now Jay Gruden may or may not be the guy, but he is the right type.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

BTW - on the Gibbs timeout call you forget to mention that after that he led an undermanned Redskins team to the playoffs. All in all Gibbs did a very good coaching job that season.

 

[Sharkinva]

Disagree. Snyder has more money than he will ever need, and his passion for the Redskin is very obvious. Also - NFL teams will make money regardless. If your take were true then I would have to imagine that the Redskins would not constantly be up against the salary cap. They would simply pay close to the salary cap floor each season. You forget that a good deal of the NFL profits are pooled so every team makes a lot of money (unlike some other sports).

I don't believe that Snyder doesn't want a winner - I just believe that he has gone about it the wrong way. Also - I truly believe that he gave up a lot of control once Shanahan was hired & I believe that continues at this time. Believe it or not - but this team is probably doing certain things in a decent way right now. However - mistakes from the past sometimes take a while to totally correct. Also - perhaps Allen/Gruden/etc are not the right people for the future, but that does not mean that Snyder is meddling or that he doesn't eventually want a SB winner for reasons other than financial gain.

HTTR

HAve to disagree here socal. Rg3's, DJax's and the like put butts in the seat and jerseys out the door. Dallas has been average at best and yet they are constantly against the salary cap a well. Big names is what makes a team money. The Browns are one of the cheapest teams out there, and generally one of the least productive teams as far as sales and merchandise.

Dan loves the team, but he also loves making money off of the team. Its partly why I think Dan had alot more to do with the trade than any one wants to admit. In 2012 the Redskins lead the league in Jersey sales, mostly due to RG3. You really think we would have come close to that number had we drafted Tannehill at #6 or a DB or O-lineman??

 

[SoCalWizFan]

HAve to disagree here socal. Rg3's, DJax's and the like put butts in the seat and jerseys out the door. Dallas has been average at best and yet they are constantly against the salary cap a well. Big names is what makes a team money. The Browns are one of the cheapest teams out there, and generally one of the least productive teams as far as sales and merchandise.

Dan loves the team, but he also loves making money off of the team. Its partly why I think Dan had alot more to do with the trade than any one wants to admit. In 2012 the Redskins lead the league in Jersey sales, mostly due to RG3. You really think we would have come close to that number had we drafted Tannehill at #6 or a DB or O-lineman??

I am not maintaining that he doesn't want to make money, but I completely disagree that this is his primary motivation. Again - all NFL teams make lots of money & the live gate is not near as big a deal in the NFL as it is in other sports. Honestly - why do the Redskins need to worry about putting "butts in the seats"? They sell out on a regular basis regardless. Also - in terms of merchandise you have to remember that - except for the Cowboys - a lot of that is shared revenue.

Do you also truly believe that the Jackson signing was primarily revenue related? Please. Who among us didn't want to sign this guy? I also still have very high hopes for him. If you ever see clips of Snyder at games you would admit that he is a huge Redskins fan, and I see no way that he is happy with a team that generates revenue yet doesn't win on a regular basis.

People need to step back & look at this objectively. I am against Snyder on various things as much as anyone. However - this concept of him only wanting to make money is way off base & driven by our bias against the guy. Your theory on the trade is 100% speculation so need to discuss that one.

 

[skinsdad62]

HAve to disagree here socal. Rg3's, DJax's and the like put butts in the seat and jerseys out the door. Dallas has been average at best and yet they are constantly against the salary cap a well. Big names is what makes a team money. The Browns are one of the cheapest teams out there, and generally one of the least productive teams as far as sales and merchandise.

Dan loves the team, but he also loves making money off of the team. Its partly why I think Dan had alot more to do with the trade than any one wants to admit. In 2012 the Redskins lead the league in Jersey sales, mostly due to RG3. You really think we would have come close to that number had we drafted Tannehill at #6 or a DB or O-lineman??

well if he did have more to do with the trade then he did what you advocated . they sacrificed 2 drafts at a potential franchise qb

but we bash snyder for doing what you advocated

 

[skinsdad62]

dad there you go with the name calling or put downs again. Why is someone else's idea lame? Because you have an opinion doesn't make you right and it doesn't make everyone that doesn't agree with you lame. The largest amount of dollars received by NFL teams is from TV money. We know from history doing things like suing a little old lady because she didn't (couldn't) pay her season tickets that Snyder cares little about the fan base. He wants there money but you are kidding yourself if you think he wants their opinion.

You often give some of our problem areas a pass. Allen has been a lot more influential than you think he has. How do you think he survived and Shanahan didn't?

I don't understand the Snyder/Cerrato comment if directed at me because I basically support the same thing as you. Sound drafts, FA signings of younger value added players instead of overpaid splash players. I am all for a great LOS of scrimmage but once again you are ignoring the big problem. The front office has been the biggest problem in the last 15 years. They are the ones not following your plan or any good plan. You love to use stats dad to prove a point. The Redskins record under Snyder is 105 and 143. They have had 8 head coaches under his ownership. You can have all the personel plans you want but until the front office learns to hire football people and then most important .... let them do their job this team will continue to struggle. It doesn't feel good to know that because there seems to be no end in sight and I believe that is why many don't want to see the problem for what it is. 16 years of the same old crap, my stat doesn't lie.

because it is lame , or is weak better ? do you think no one on this board hasnt called me naive ? or a homer etc as a way to downgrade my point of view ?
so we are going to get a little upset because i believe a talking point is weak or lame ?

and of course it is my point of view and if someone disagrees with it and i feel its lame i will say it . i have every right to just as someone can call my view lame or naive or weak and they dont hold back on me

. just who do you think generates TV revenue ? its fans . they watch games , advertisers want to air commercials for their products to get fans attention . that makes advertisers and sponsors want to pay money to teams to air their commercials

as for stats , my OP wasnt about what kind of owner we have , it was about how to fix the team . the owner isnt going anywhere for the next 40 years that should be a given to any fan with common sense reading the post

what has to be done is to get the owner to see the merits of the plan and be allowed to execute it

hey i put my ideas out there me and 2 or 3 others put theirs out there it

is easy to pick apart my ideas when i put them out there

that is better then most who want to pick it apart

 

[Sharkinva]

well if he did have more to do with the trade then he did what you advocated . they sacrificed 2 drafts at a potential franchise qb

but we bash snyder for doing what you advocated

Skinsdad, as i have said all along, its the move I advocated... but not the player I would have done it for. From the moment he was brought up you know I said I see more of Vick than a Manning in RG3.

So far Im right.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

BTW - on the Gibbs timeout call you forget to mention that after that he led an undermanned Redskins team to the playoffs. All in all Gibbs did a very good coaching job that season.

You are right, the team made an amazing run. But it 's hard to argue with Shark's contention that ex-SB coaches usually fail because they demand too much control. But my point was none of us every imagined the great Joe Gibbs making such a horrible decision that costs us in the most emotional game any of us will ever watch.

The bottom line is Gibbs 2 was a failure. A losing record, a few miracle runs to squeak out the final playoff spot where they scared nobody and the part that is still overlooks, the incredible number of high/mid round draft picks that were wasted on Jason Cambell, Brandon Lloyd, TJ Duckett, etc. That absolutely killed the team after he left.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

You are right, the team made an amazing run. But it 's hard to argue with Shark's contention that ex-SB coaches usually fail because they demand too much control. But my point was none of us every imagined the great Joe Gibbs making such a horrible decision that costs us in the most emotional game any of us will ever watch.

The bottom line is Gibbs 2 was a failure. A losing record, a few miracle runs to squeak out the final playoff spot where they scared nobody and the part that is still overlooks, the incredible number of high/mid round draft picks that were wasted on Jason Cambell, Brandon Lloyd, TJ Duckett, etc. That absolutely killed the team after he left.

I was the one who made that pt & have for quite a while. One of the main problems with Gibbs 2 was the same one with Shanahan. In this era - you don't give all of the control to one person. There has to be a true separation between coach & GM. The Redskins have this now although they may not have the right persons in those positions. At least it is a start.

I don't believe that this team will go back to a Gibbs 2 or Shanahan setup for a long, long time. If the current setup fails for a few seasons then hopefully they start the process as it should - by first hiring a GM with football smarts who can subsequently find the right coach. However - not ready to give up on the current regime just yet.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

If this regime fails I have zero confidence that Snyder is capable of hiring the right people. As much as I hate him I have to say he is hurting worse than we are when they lose. Nobody wants it more than he does. He just doesn't know how to do it.

 

[Stymietee]

I was the one who made that pt & have for quite a while. One of the main problems with Gibbs 2 was the same one with Shanahan. In this era - you don't give all of the control to one person. There has to be a true separation between coach & GM. The Redskins have this now although they may not have the right persons in those positions. At least it is a start.

I don't believe that this team will go back to a Gibbs 2 or Shanahan setup for a long, long time. If the current setup fails for a few seasons then hopefully they start the process as it should - by first hiring a GM with football smarts who can subsequently find the right coach. However - not ready to give up on the current regime just yet.

Actually, they don't have a "Dedicated GM." In my research Bruce Allen graduated with degree(s) in economics and Business, this is and should be his specific duties with the team. Contracts and salary cap management, he is very good at it and with the additional title of team president also handle all public/ off field matters. What this team needs is a "Dedicated GM", fully staffed and charged with this edit.......upgrade....upgrade.....upgrade. Lacking that, what difference does it make who has all of or most of the power if that person is not qualified to do them all effectively?

 

[eamines]

If this regime fails I have zero confidence that Snyder is capable of hiring the right people. As much as I hate him I have to say he is hurting worse than we are when they lose. Nobody wants it more than he does. He just doesn't know how to do it.

I agree. I really believe Snyder wants to win, but he doesn't have a clue about building winning franchise. I think many of the people he's hired, pulled the wool over his eyes, and had their own hidden agenda. IMO, Snyder should reach out to some former players. Mark Murphy, is one of those players. I would ask Mark about being the GM. The only drawback, Mark seems to be really P.C., right now, and he'd probably want the franchise name to change before he would even consider it. If he did accept, I would ask him how he felt, about bringing Russ Grimm in, as O line coach. I would also talk to him about Todd Bowles, as possible Defensive coordinator. It probably wouldn't be good for Gruden, but oh well! All decisions, regarding the structure of this franchise, would be Marks.

 

[Stymietee]

I agree. I really believe Snyder wants to win, but he doesn't have a clue about building winning franchise. I think many of the people he's hired, pulled the wool over his eyes, and had their own hidden agenda. IMO, Snyder should reach out to some former players. Mark Murphy, is one of those players. I would ask Mark about being the GM. The only drawback, Mark seems to be really P.C., right now, and he'd probably want the franchise name to change before he would even consider it. If he did accept, I would ask him how he felt, about bringing Russ Grimm in, as O line coach. I would also talk to him about Todd Bowles, as possible Defensive coordinator. It probably wouldn't be good for Gruden, but oh well! All decisions, regarding the structure of this franchise, would be Marks.

I'm not sure how you would get M. Murphy away from the Packers, or T. Bowles away from the Cardinals. Both are highly respected in their current positions and would be borderline psychotic to leave at this point in their careers. As for the whole P.C. thing, I'll bet if you really wanted to gage the true feeling of the fans of this team ask them the question (you start the thread/poll).....Question: would you be willing to give up the name of the team for long term stability and SB wins? It is only a problem when not properly put into perspective.

 

[skinsdad62]

Skinsdad, as i have said all along, its the move I advocated... but not the player I would have done it for. From the moment he was brought up you know I said I see more of Vick than a Manning in RG3.

So far Im right.

your philosophy is wrong , and Rg3 proves it and bradford proves it and sanchez proves it

you dont gut drafts for one guy

in fact you would be hard pressed to find if that type of trade has ever worked for any player

 

[skinsdad62]

I'm not sure how you would get M. Murphy away from the Packers, or T. Bowles away from the Cardinals. Both are highly respected in their current positions and would be borderline psychotic to leave at this point in their careers. As for the whole P.C. thing, I'll bet if you really wanted to gage the true feeling of the fans of this team ask them the question (you start the thread/poll).....Question: would you be willing to give up the name of the team for long term stability and SB wins? It is only a problem when not properly put into perspective.

its foolishness stymie because you could never guarantee stability by giving up the name

try to enter the world of reality and not the world of theory

 

[eamines]

I'm not sure how you would get M. Murphy away from the Packers, or T. Bowles away from the Cardinals. Both are highly respected in their current positions and would be borderline psychotic to leave at this point in their careers. As for the whole P.C. thing, I'll bet if you really wanted to gage the true feeling of the fans of this team ask them the question (you start the thread/poll).....Question: would you be willing to give up the name of the team for long term stability and SB wins? It is only a problem when not properly put into perspective.

That's exactly the sales pitch Snyder should use. Let those guys know, they're highly respected, in their positions, and as former players of the franchise, he really needs their help, bringing pride back to the organization. It would be worth a try. The Money wouldn't hurt either. LOL!!

 

[Sharkinva]

your philosophy is wrong , and Rg3 proves it and bradford proves it and sanchez proves it

you dont gut drafts for one guy

in fact you would be hard pressed to find if that type of trade has ever worked for any player

Julio Jones comes to mind.

You get the right player and he is worth multiple picks ( NO one is worth what we gave up for RG3)

Also Eli has proved to be worth what was given up for him.

 

[Stymietee]

its foolishness stymie because you could never guarantee stability by giving up the name

try to enter the world of reality and not the world of theory

Was this posters position theoretical? Getting Murphy and Bowles seems to be just that! He offered a hypothetical and I countered with one. For some I can see the threat that hypothetical questions pose because there is more comfort in avoiding that part of real life that insists that theory is but a precursor to a finding of fact.

 

[skinsdad62]

Julio Jones comes to mind.

You get the right player and he is worth multiple picks ( NO one is worth what we gave up for RG3)

Also Eli has proved to be worth what was given up for him.

ok any others ? because i bet that fails more often then succeeds

the falcons gave up 5 picks 2 1st rounders a 2nd and 2 4th's

and as good as julius jones has been by your standard he was a failure because he hasnt sniffed even one superbowl not one

eli i can agree with but they still had a very good ace in the hole with rivers at the 4 spot or big ben if you are hung up on the super bowl thing

 

[Sharkinva]

ok any others ? because i bet that fails more often then succeeds

the falcons gave up 5 picks 2 1st rounders a 2nd and 2 4th's

and as good as julius jones has been by your standard he was a failure because he hasnt sniffed even one superbowl not one

eli i can agree with but they still had a very good ace in the hole with rivers at the 4 spot or big ben if you are hung up on the super bowl thing

Skinsdad... If Jones were offered up right now for a first and 3rd, 80% of the league would jump on that. For the right player its worth it.

Flip side, if we offered to take a single 1st for RG3, maybe 5 teams would be interested.