how do we fix this ?

[martinez]

I will simply say this in case every one seemed to miss it.

Most of your teams that tend to have hat is considered GOOD pass blockers, tend to be average or worse when running the ball. And most of your teams that excel at running the ball, tend to be average or worse at passing the ball. The two skil sets are similar, but chances are if you have a guy that excels at run blocking, he will struggle or in most cases be average in pass blocking or vise versa. There are very few truely dominant O-lineman that do well at both.

SO maybe its not the scouts that are failing, but the teams indecision on exactly what we want to be as an offense. I know we as fans want ot be this all powerful unstoppable Juggernaut. But reality is, the best teams have sort of picked what they are going to live by and designed the teams accordingly. The ZBS realy isnt the best thing as far as pass blocking with the QBs we currently have. We need to go run heavy, commit to it, and build off of it. But a 2-1 passing ratio is NEVER going to work with the line we have or a ZBS period.

i do think right now we should play to the o lines strengths and run the ball. but gruden is a very pass happy coach, so for the future we should work on getting better pass blockers starting next off season. im not a fan of zone blocking.

 

[Sharkinva]

i do think right now we should play to the o lines strengths and run the ball. but gruden is a very pass happy coach, so for the future we should work on getting better pass blockers starting next off season. im not a fan of zone blocking.

See I think thats a bit of chasing the white whale at this point. I know every one wants RG3 to become a franchise QB. But right now we have a very good RB. I wont say he is Riggins, but if we built the team around Morris and the defense, it would take less work and time than trying to get this passing game right I think. It started with Norv, Marty almost had us in the right direction. Then we bring in the Nutsack coach, and from there we have been chasing the white whale. And IM just as guilty as any one. Time to give up the ghost and build an old school Redskins team, and who knows maybe we will luck into another franchise QB some day.

 

[martinez]

what im saying is our teams issue is we have a run blocking o line, a good rb, but a pass happy head coach. Gruden will always try to pass the ball plenty more than run the ball, thats his coaching style. so we can either transition to pass blocking o linemen or something needs to happen with gruden.

 

[Sharkinva]

what im saying is our teams issue is we have a run blocking o line, a good rb, but a pass happy head coach. Gruden will always try to pass the ball plenty more than run the ball, thats his coaching style. so we can either transition to pass blocking o linemen or something needs to happen with gruden.

Then something needs to happen with Gruden. Because trying to make this team into a pass happy points machine has wasted countless years and resources. If you own a pretty good pickup truck, dont try and fit it with racing slicks and a spoiler.

 

[redskin4209]

Actually the ground attack & blocking has done pretty well lately. Even at the current time w/ the current personnel they can have a pretty decent running game. The key is staying committed to the run & that often means continuing to run the ball even when you don't get that many yards. It is similar to an NBA shooter continuing to put up the ball when slumping. I believe that this team often gives up on the run too early.

Good point about running the ball. This team has some major weakness.

1 Defensively we will have to address in the off season. All we can hope for is some 2 or 3 critical stop during the game.

2 Offensive line is another area to address in the off season. However the Skins are an okay running team and should utilize this more. Running the ball effectively can mask most of our Defensive issues by eating up the clock and also winning the time of possession. Wish we had TE's to run more 2 TE sets an utilize the play action more. This also creates maximum protection which can cover up the poor pass protection issues. This is what Gibbs did his first yr. If you look the leading teams this yr who have the most rushing attempts are winning teams. That's Cinncinnati and these Boys down here in Big D. Dallas is not a top ranked DEF but they run the ball effectively, which cover up their weak DEF issues. Currently the Skin are number 10 in rushing yds, that not bad.

3 ST"s is an area we should improve right away no need to wait for the off season. Hopefully we can get better. Some have say we need a better kicker which allows no KOR and I agree. The Skins should be at the top of the list for giving up the KOR yds.

4 TO's Another area that should be solved quickly. Especially unforced red zone TO's. Good to average teams simply don't have TO's on a regular basis like our Skins.

If you look at 3 and 4 these categories are areas that should be easy areas to address right away. Now I am not saying these are the only areas that need improvement to fix this team but it is a strat in the right direction. Let's look at 3 and 4. Remember the Houston game. We had 2 TO's in the red zone. One BLK punt for a TD. In week 3 vs the Eagle we allowed a 102 KOR right after we scored a TD. Later on we missed a very makeable FG. Week 4 vs the Giants. Paulslen fumble the ball in the red zone with less than a minute before half. The score should be 17 to 10 or 17 to 14 instead of 24 to 7. Now if you look at this, our Skin should be at least 3 and 1 and possibly 4 and 0. That's incredible considering how poor our DEF is and the inconsistency at QB. So how do we fix this team well simply improving in areas 3 an 4, especially 4. These are areas we need to start at when it comes to How to fix this team.

 

[Sportster 72]

sporster in the next 2 years we have 14 draft picks
we have 2 of the o/lineman on the roster so we need 2 .

4 dbs is right and 2 dl . by my count that is 8 players

the 1st rounders would cost 2 mil a piece which is 4 mil
the 2 2nd round and 3rd rounders cost another 3 mil


that is 7 mil in cap space now are you telling me we cant get that by cutting a bowen and chester ?

plus our cap will grow and we will be hugely under the cap in the next couple of years

now my OP was the plan , this is a more detailed look at execution

now according to sports trac we are carrying LBF and doughty at a combined 5.7 mil (i am wary of this figure )

jenkins j is a free agent and he is paid 2.8 golston 300k hank 600 k , that is 3.7 mil

polumbus stieger and chester 9.7 combined

rak is 11 mil if you decide to let him walk
, need i go on ? thats 30 mil freed up

we havent talked about redoing trent 10.0 cofield 6 mil garcon 8.5 mil

so there you have it . we should have enough draft picks and money to get the players we could use

That's fine dad. Every team in the league has a similar plan or one that suits them, at least in their mind. You are basing your cap figures on static figures or only guys you are going to get rid of. Three years in the NFL is a long time so lord only knows what is going to happen. Do our QBs bust? Does Griffin go off the charts and get a $20 million contract? But that isn't really my point. I trust you to have a more sound plan than I trust Snyder and his band of merry men. What will be the next shiny quarter? Who will be the latest coach du jours? Stymie told you and I am telling you that the biggest problem isn't on the field it is in the front office. I don't need any stats and I don't need any depth charts to know that 15 years of history say I am right. I think we are more likely waiting for the perfect storm when by dumb luck we have a good team one year and go all the way. Might have been 2012 if Griffin hadn't got hurt. No way of knowing though.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Good point about running the ball. This team has some major weakness.

1 Defensively we will have to address in the off season. All we can hope for is some 2 or 3 critical stop during the game.

2 Offensive line is another area to address in the off season. However the Skins are an okay running team and should utilize this more. Running the ball effectively can mask most of our Defensive issues by eating up the clock and also winning the time of possession. Wish we had TE's to run more 2 TE sets an utilize the play action more. This also creates maximum protection which can cover up the poor pass protection issues. This is what Gibbs did his first yr. If you look the leading teams this yr who have the most rushing attempts are winning teams. That's Cinncinnati and these Boys down here in Big D. Dallas is not a top ranked DEF but they run the ball effectively, which cover up their weak DEF issues. Currently the Skin are number 10 in rushing yds, that not bad.

3 ST"s is an area we should improve right away no need to wait for the off season. Hopefully we can get better. Some have say we need a better kicker which allows no KOR and I agree. The Skins should be at the top of the list for giving up the KOR yds.

4 TO's Another area that should be solved quickly. Especially unforced red zone TO's. Good to average teams simply don't have TO's on a regular basis like our Skins.

If you look at 3 and 4 these categories are areas that should be easy areas to address right away. Now I am not saying these are the only areas that need improvement to fix this team but it is a strat in the right direction. Let's look at 3 and 4. Remember the Houston game. We had 2 TO's in the red zone. One BLK punt for a TD. In week 3 vs the Eagle we allowed a 102 KOR right after we scored a TD. Later on we missed a very makeable FG. Week 4 vs the Giants. Paulslen fumble the ball in the red zone with less than a minute before half. The score should be 17 to 10 or 17 to 14 instead of 24 to 7. Now if you look at this, our Skin should be at least 3 and 1 and possibly 4 and 0. That's incredible considering how poor our DEF is and the inconsistency at QB. So how do we fix this team well simply improving in areas 3 an 4, especially 4. These are areas we need to start at when it comes to How to fix this team.

Good points. These are consistent with my overall take which is that certainly they need upgrades in talent over the offseason, but there are things that can be addressed right now. They can alter their philosphy somewhat (e.g. run more), get more effort & fix mistakes for current players & perhaps make a tweak or two (e.g. in the kicking area).

For better or worse - this is a work in progress & the team at least needs to learn how to maximize their potential and reduce the amt of killer mistakes.

 

[skinz2winz]

You do realize that the scouting department was responsible for the acquisition of McGlynn right? The scouts do not make the decision to cut players, that's the coaches. Compton was a late round pick and the fact that he is still here says they scouted well. Long and Moses have been here for a week and a half and you have declared them both busts? Awesome.

Was the scouting dep't responsible for the McGlynn acquisition? You really know that DGF? Yeah, Compton has been here for what, 3 years? Not even considered a starter, but a swing tackle, nice depth. Sorry, but on my team I want likely starters battling it out each year with the loser out ready to go. Moses appears to be no where near ready as his draft position indicated. Like maybe never and it was mentioned in many articles the coaches found his mechanics and footwork alarmingly bad. Who the hell drafts a guard who just blew up his knee? Never did I say bust, I said they were not capable starters. If they were, they would be starting. While we have brought in a few players who most could have predicted could play in this league, our scouting department has done a VERY poor job of evaluating talent as a whole. This area needs to improve and I only believe it will with new talent evaluators.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm a big Morris fan too but I think you guys are overrating our run blocking and with it the running game. He got 22 carries against the Jagss and averaged 3.9. He got 23 carries against the Eagles and averaged 3.3 Nobody should be claiming they abandoned the run in games where he got over 20 carriers. So it's not strictly a function of not getting enough carries as we want to believe in every case. Against the Giants the game was getting out of hand so they had to start putting it up. But before that he had 12 for 63. Take away the one 20 yard game and he had 43 yards in 11 carries, or 3.9

Sorry this is a horrible pass blocking OL and as we can see an average run blocking line.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Was the scouting dep't responsible for the McGlynn acquisition? You really know that DGF? .

What's your theory, he just showed up uninvited on a dare?

You are claiming we should fire the scouting department because we cut McGlynn . My point is the scouting department decides who comes and the coaches decide who leaves. Scouts don't cut anybody. Thought that was common knowledge.

 

[skinsdad62]

I'm a big Morris fan too but I think you guys are overrating our run blocking and with it the running game. He got 22 carries against the Jagss and averaged 3.9. He got 23 carries against the Eagles and averaged 3.3 Nobody should be claiming they abandoned the run in games where he got over 20 carriers. So it's not strictly a function of not getting enough carries as we want to believe in every case. Against the Giants the game was getting out of hand so they had to start putting it up. But before that he had 12 for 63. Take away the one 20 yard game and he had 43 yards in 11 carries, or 3.9

Sorry this is a horrible pass blocking OL and as we can see an average run blocking line.

you have noticed the drop off in YPC when KC starts as far as morris is concerned .

could it be that Rg3 , god forbid , covers up deficiencies in run blocking ?

 

[Sportster 72]

Could it be Gruden's decision to pass more has something to do with the run game?

Could it be that Shanahan one of the greatest run game coaches of his era has something to do with a little downturn in the run game.

I believe Alf is still 5th in rushing.

You may not like this line for several reasons but it has been one of the best run blocking lines in the game the past few years.

At the same time the reason Griffin was drafted No. 2 was his ability to cause additional worries to defenses using his legs and I am sure that doesn't hurt the running game.

 

[skinsdad62]

Could it be Gruden's decision to pass more has something to do with the run game?

Could it be that Shanahan one of the greatest run game coaches of his era has something to do with a little downturn in the run game.

I believe Alf is still 5th in rushing.

You may not like this line for several reasons but it has been one of the best run blocking lines in the game the past few years.

At the same time the reason Griffin was drafted No. 2 was his ability to cause additional worries to defenses using his legs and I am sure that doesn't hurt the running game.

the redskins are rushing the ball 27 times a game

they are passing it 38 times a game

i am not sure 11 times more per game is out of line when we have been behind a good portion of the time

 

[Sharkinva]

Simple question... whats easier to find?? Power run blockers or 5 lineman who can maintain the pass blocking consistently for 3-5 seconds fourty plus snaps a game??

Power up the line for run blocking, become a real power rushing team and all the bus driver needs to do is hit the broad side of a bus 15-20 times a game.

 

[skinsdad62]

That's fine dad. Every team in the league has a similar plan or one that suits them, at least in their mind. You are basing your cap figures on static figures or only guys you are going to get rid of. Three years in the NFL is a long time so lord only knows what is going to happen. Do our QBs bust? Does Griffin go off the charts and get a $20 million contract? But that isn't really my point. I trust you to have a more sound plan than I trust Snyder and his band of merry men. What will be the next shiny quarter? Who will be the latest coach du jours? Stymie told you and I am telling you that the biggest problem isn't on the field it is in the front office. I don't need any stats and I don't need any depth charts to know that 15 years of history say I am right. I think we are more likely waiting for the perfect storm when by dumb luck we have a good team one year and go all the way. Might have been 2012 if Griffin hadn't got hurt. No way of knowing though.

is the front office the biggest problem ? didnt snyder stay out of day to day operations for the most part ?

allen has been the GM for less then a year and we know what direction he is going ?

i agree that the FO needs to determine what kind of team we will be . they need to choose between what kind of qb they want

see i give allen a pass for the shanny years because shanny controlled the football aspects of the operation

i believe snyder let gibbs run the show as well and he let spurieur run his

we have one former TB coach . we have 1 former bucs player

all i am going to say is this , we fix the LOS , long term and a lot of our problems will go away if we value our draft picks then we can sustain long term success. if we have stability in the Fo and staff we will be successful

if replacing the FO and coaching staff accomplishes that then fine

but i caution that good football people arent going to come to DC if they know they wont get the time to implement their systems and get their types of players and we need patience from the fan base and the FO

some of you use the lame excuse that the fan base doesnt influnece the team . i say poppycock . they most certainly do . they buy tickets , they go to games , the but merchandise and concessions.

an owner like snyder will see the drop in sales and profits and will say "why ?" then he will look at the product on the field and say "they aint drawing fans " we need to make a change and patience be damned

you know what i find amusing is that for years people bash snyder and cerrato for how they run the franchise yet in numerous posts they advocate the same policies that snyder in fact practices

i have never seen snyder go out and get the 5 best o/lineman available yet when i suggest lets fix the LOS i get resistance i get told it cant be done

he guts 2 drafts to get a franchise qb and fails and we want more of the same

how many posts do we get that advocate signing the next flavor of the day FA signing and when it happens and it fails the the FO is stupid for doing what the fan base wants

guys snyder is the fan base , he is a fan, he is deanpet run amok . if the fanbase whines he will react dont kid yourself

you have to find good people and let them do their jobs

 

[martinez]

Simple question... whats easier to find?? Power run blockers or 5 lineman who can maintain the pass blocking consistently for 3-5 seconds fourty plus snaps a game??

Power up the line for run blocking, become a real power rushing team and all the bus driver needs to do is hit the broad side of a bus 15-20 times a game.

i think thats great shark and i agree with you fully but im not sure if that is the way this team is heading. with gruden as head coach i think he is making us a more high powered passing attack offense. in grudens first off season the team signed, a roberts, djax and shawn lauvao (supposed to be a better pass blocker than run blocker). Now this isnt a bad thing because the o line is getting bigger which is what we want.
Long - 6'5 311 (supposed to be a road grader, yay)
Moses - 6'6 335
Lauvao - 6'3 315
all bigger than lich, chester and polumbus. so those three will most likely be replaced by next year. probably long, free agent center, and i dont know about right tackle.
so im not sure if we are becoming a power running team that can run over any defense but we are transitioning away from the smaller o linemen that get destroyed when they attempt to pass block.

 

[Sportster 72]

is the front office the biggest problem ? didnt snyder stay out of day to day operations for the most part ?

allen has been the GM for less then a year and we know what direction he is going ?

i agree that the FO needs to determine what kind of team we will be . they need to choose between what kind of qb they want

see i give allen a pass for the shanny years because shanny controlled the football aspects of the operation

i believe snyder let gibbs run the show as well and he let spurieur run his

we have one former TB coach . we have 1 former bucs player

all i am going to say is this , we fix the LOS , long term and a lot of our problems will go away if we value our draft picks then we can sustain long term success. if we have stability in the Fo and staff we will be successful

if replacing the FO and coaching staff accomplishes that then fine

but i caution that good football people arent going to come to DC if they know they wont get the time to implement their systems and get their types of players and we need patience from the fan base and the FO

some of you use the lame excuse that the fan base doesnt influnece the team . i say poppycock . they most certainly do . they buy tickets , they go to games , the but merchandise and concessions.

an owner like snyder will see the drop in sales and profits and will say "why ?" then he will look at the product on the field and say "they aint drawing fans " we need to make a change and patience be damned

you know what i find amusing is that for years people bash snyder and cerrato for how they run the franchise yet in numerous posts they advocate the same policies that snyder in fact practices

i have never seen snyder go out and get the 5 best o/lineman available yet when i suggest lets fix the LOS i get resistance i get told it cant be done

he guts 2 drafts to get a franchise qb and fails and we want more of the same

how many posts do we get that advocate signing the next flavor of the day FA signing and when it happens and it fails the the FO is stupid for doing what the fan base wants

guys snyder is the fan base , he is a fan, he is deanpet run amok . if the fanbase whines he will react dont kid yourself

you have to find good people and let them do their jobs

dad there you go with the name calling or put downs again. Why is someone else's idea lame? Because you have an opinion doesn't make you right and it doesn't make everyone that doesn't agree with you lame. The largest amount of dollars received by NFL teams is from TV money. We know from history doing things like suing a little old lady because she didn't (couldn't) pay her season tickets that Snyder cares little about the fan base. He wants there money but you are kidding yourself if you think he wants their opinion.

You often give some of our problem areas a pass. Allen has been a lot more influential than you think he has. How do you think he survived and Shanahan didn't?

I don't understand the Snyder/Cerrato comment if directed at me because I basically support the same thing as you. Sound drafts, FA signings of younger value added players instead of overpaid splash players. I am all for a great LOS of scrimmage but once again you are ignoring the big problem. The front office has been the biggest problem in the last 15 years. They are the ones not following your plan or any good plan. You love to use stats dad to prove a point. The Redskins record under Snyder is 105 and 143. They have had 8 head coaches under his ownership. You can have all the personel plans you want but until the front office learns to hire football people and then most important .... let them do their job this team will continue to struggle. It doesn't feel good to know that because there seems to be no end in sight and I believe that is why many don't want to see the problem for what it is. 16 years of the same old crap, my stat doesn't lie.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

Dan cares about money . If I was nfl a owner and my team sucked but everyear my profit was high why would I care if my team can not make the playoffs . How many millioners are out there that has made million and millions and the'product they selll or make is crap. I would love to see how much profit the redskins makevs other team profits

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Snyder's record speaks for itself. And yeah I too have concerns that he will never provide a winner because everything he touches turns to coal. He somehow brought back 2 multiple Super Bowl winners and they turned into Rich Kotite. I still have not recovered from Joe Gibbs calling the second timeout to cost us the Sean Taylor game. Easily one of the lowest times I have ever had as a fan. Snyder asks around the league and was told overwhelmingly that Bruce Allen is one of the best front office guys in the league. Allen arrives and nothing seems to change.

But what has changed, and this can not be ignored, is this is not the way the team was run for the first decade. Dan Snyder is not in the war room trading back in the draft. He is not instructing Vinny to sign Albert Haynesworth or to offer the Bengals 2 #1's for Chad Johnson. Is he still involved in personnel decisions? I have no doubt the trade up for the Griffin pick was run by him. But I also have no doubt a move like that would be run by virtually every owner around the league. But what is no longer happening is the boy owner deciding who to take in the 3rd round. And that is a huge difference.

But will it be enough to overcome The Curse Of Dan? I'm having my doubts.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Dan cares about money . If I was nfl a owner and my team sucked but everyear my profit was high why would I care if my team can not make the playoffs . How many millioners are out there that has made million and millions and the'product they selll or make is crap. I would love to see how much profit the redskins makevs other team profits

Disagree. Snyder has more money than he will ever need, and his passion for the Redskin is very obvious. Also - NFL teams will make money regardless. If your take were true then I would have to imagine that the Redskins would not constantly be up against the salary cap. They would simply pay close to the salary cap floor each season. You forget that a good deal of the NFL profits are pooled so every team makes a lot of money (unlike some other sports).

I don't believe that Snyder doesn't want a winner - I just believe that he has gone about it the wrong way. Also - I truly believe that he gave up a lot of control once Shanahan was hired & I believe that continues at this time. Believe it or not - but this team is probably doing certain things in a decent way right now. However - mistakes from the past sometimes take a while to totally correct. Also - perhaps Allen/Gruden/etc are not the right people for the future, but that does not mean that Snyder is meddling or that he doesn't eventually want a SB winner for reasons other than financial gain.

HTTR