Houston Asterisks

[Hook'Em0608]

You had me till you gave the Astro fan ....but others have cheated excuse.
"the Dodgers busted cheating with laser pointers or some sort"

Thats such fuckin bullshit. Yes the Dodgers got busted using a laser pointer TO MOVE OUTFEILDERS TO WERE THEY WANTED HIM TO PLAY DEFENSIVELY. Thats not even in the same universe of what they astros were doing.

My point wasn't to make an equal comparison, clearly they aren't, it was to point out how teams attempt to use technology to gain a competitive advantage and occasionally it gets called out. Anyway, I'm not trying to start a tit for tat comparison.

My point was this.

Corked bats, substances on pitches, stealing signs, steroids, technology, etc etc etc

MLB has a history of this and I don't think they really want to change. The Astros just put them in a position where they had to do something because the roof was about to get blown off by social media. I bet secretly the MLB is more angry at Mike Fiers than the Houston Astros.

All these players are coming out pretending to be surprised and outraged when it was clear in 2017 by all the mound visits in the playoffs they knew what was going on. At the time, as a clueless fan, I thought they were worried about Astros baserunners stealing signs but if you go back and watch some of these occurred with nobody on base. They knew then. Didn't say anything publicly.

 

[Hook'Em0608]

Okay to clarify my point some and make it specific to this Astros issue, so teams have been trying to steal signs since the invention of baseball. Everybody agrees with this. If you figure out the other teams signs, it’s okay to tell the batter what is coming if you have a runner on second base, but no other time. It’s okay to use a camera feed to try to help figure these out, but you can only study this information before or after the game. All of these things are technically against the rules of course, but everyone accepts that they are allowed as long as you do them exactly like I’ve stated.

Oh, and if the pitcher does something slightly different for each type of pitch that helps the batter know what is coming, then it is generally regarded as the pitchers fault because DUH everyone knows that the batter is desperately looking for any indication to help him know what is coming.

Before anyone tries to claim I’m absolving the Astros of wrongdoing, that ain’t it. They cheated and should be punished. I just find the player outrage silly when the sport is completely shaped by unwritten rules, most of which are technically “cheating”. When a team is cheating, nobody seems to say anything until after the fact. So in reality, they don't really care if it's benefitting them at the time. So they have no moral high ground to stand on.

The only folks I sympathize with is the fans. I truly do feel bad for fans who had high quality teams capable of winning it all and we will never truly know who the best team was.

 

[Kelleyman]

Why would anyone have any respect for the Astros organization? This is nothing new. So many ways this org has messed with individuals.
So many specific examples

 

[SeattleCoug]

I bet secretly the MLB is more angry at Mike Fiers than the Houston Astros.

no doubt

 

[socaljim242]

My point wasn't to make an equal comparison, clearly they aren't, it was to point out how teams attempt to use technology to gain a competitive advantage and occasionally it gets called out. Anyway, I'm not trying to start a tit for tat comparison.

My point was this.

Corked bats, substances on pitches, stealing signs, steroids, technology, etc etc etc

MLB has a history of this and I don't think they really want to change. The Astros just put them in a position where they had to do something because the roof was about to get blown off by social media. I bet secretly the MLB is more angry at Mike Fiers than the Houston Astros.

All these players are coming out pretending to be surprised and outraged when it was clear in 2017 by all the mound visits in the playoffs they knew what was going on. At the time, as a clueless fan, I thought they were worried about Astros baserunners stealing signs but if you go back and watch some of these occurred with nobody on base. They knew then. Didn't say anything publicly.

You wrote it, so yes you tried to compare the two. The Dodgers were using a laser pointer to tell the outfielder where they wanted him positioned for the next batter. The nerve! lol. To be honest that would probably make the game go faster and it's 0 nothing nada of an advantage. It's just saving time from doing it the old way.

Yes players and teams had an idea the astros were cheating but no one knew exactly how. Even now we don't know everything because if these players lied and cheated for three years you know they didn't say everything they did because baseball is trying to sweep it under the rug. So the astro players wont come totally clean if they don't have to. And unless you have the proof what was the other team supposed to do? Complain to the umps? Like they would have stopped to investigate.

But hey another strike for you.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Okay to clarify my point some and make it specific to this Astros issue, so teams have been trying to steal signs since the invention of baseball. Everybody agrees with this. If you figure out the other teams signs, it’s okay to tell the batter what is coming if you have a runner on second base, but no other time. It’s okay to use a camera feed to try to help figure these out, but you can only study this information before or after the game. All of these things are technically against the rules of course, but everyone accepts that they are allowed as long as you do them exactly like I’ve stated.

Oh, and if the pitcher does something slightly different for each type of pitch that helps the batter know what is coming, then it is generally regarded as the pitchers fault because DUH everyone knows that the batter is desperately looking for any indication to help him know what is coming.

Before anyone tries to claim I’m absolving the Astros of wrongdoing, that ain’t it. They cheated and should be punished. I just find the player outrage silly when the sport is completely shaped by unwritten rules, most of which are technically “cheating”. When a team is cheating, nobody seems to say anything until after the fact. So in reality, they don't really care if it's benefitting them at the time. So they have no moral high ground to stand on.

The only folks I sympathize with is the fans. I truly do feel bad for fans who had high quality teams capable of winning it all and we will never truly know who the best team was.

The Astros went above and beyond, knew it was illegal, regardless of what is said and I have zero doubt they also used buzzers, but the league had no evidence so they didn’t admit to that.

I think anyone on those Astros teams who used this shouldn’t be punished, as they were granted immunity (which is why you see the outrage).

I think 100% — any player on those teams should be given the bonds and Clemens treatment when it comes to the HOF.

The 2017 ‘World Series title’ is already forever tainted. So whether they put an asterisk next to it or not — it doesn’t matter. Taking it away would be futile as they already played the games, but Houston should donate the $30 million they received in compensation for the playoffs to a worthy cause.

 

[socaljim242]

Okay to clarify my point some and make it specific to this Astros issue, so teams have been trying to steal signs since the invention of baseball. Everybody agrees with this. If you figure out the other teams signs, it’s okay to tell the batter what is coming if you have a runner on second base, but no other time. It’s okay to use a camera feed to try to help figure these out, but you can only study this information before or after the game. All of these things are technically against the rules of course, but everyone accepts that they are allowed as long as you do them exactly like I’ve stated.

Oh, and if the pitcher does something slightly different for each type of pitch that helps the batter know what is coming, then it is generally regarded as the pitchers fault because DUH everyone knows that the batter is desperately looking for any indication to help him know what is coming.

Before anyone tries to claim I’m absolving the Astros of wrongdoing, that ain’t it. They cheated and should be punished. I just find the player outrage silly when the sport is completely shaped by unwritten rules, most of which are technically “cheating”. When a team is cheating, nobody seems to say anything until after the fact. So in reality, they don't really care if it's benefitting them at the time. So they have no moral high ground to stand on.

The only folks I sympathize with is the fans. I truly do feel bad for fans who had high quality teams capable of winning it all and we will never truly know who the best team was.

Whats hilarious is people like you will point out all the ways players will try to steal the signs off the catcher, point out that from the beginning of baseball knowing what pitch was coming was the holy grail of getting an advantage over the pitcher. And then come back with, but we don't know if was really an advantage or how much of one it was. LOL.

 

[Cedrique]

Well, I guess it is happening. A league in PA got rid of the Astros name so now people in the media can say "leagues from California to Pennsylvania are dropping the Astros nickname". I don't know what name they will replace Astros with but based on the uniform color maybe they can mix in a name that hasn't been used in a while--The Orangemen.

Astros cheating: Little Leagues begin banning use of team name in 2020

 

[Ginandtonic]

Astros sign stealing SOLVED

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Known cheater backs cheaters.

 

[nynasty]

Known cheater backs cheaters.

Still waiting for the results of his investigation into why he tested positive. Must be some kind of in depth process to be taking 11 years.

 

[Battlelyon]

Known cheater backs cheaters.

Ortiz is a joke

 

[Pure Steel]

Ortiz is a joke

I wish he would take a vacation to the D.R.

 

[Hook'Em0608]

Whats hilarious is people like you will point out all the ways players will try to steal the signs off the catcher, point out that from the beginning of baseball knowing what pitch was coming was the holy grail of getting an advantage over the pitcher. And then come back with, but we don't know if was really an advantage or how much of one it was. LOL.

Not that I'm surprised since you have a vivid imagination on all the forums you post on, but I never said this. I've said we will never know who the best team was because the Astros cheated. I've got no delusions at all about what occurred in 2017. My team cheated.

 

[socaljim242]

Not that I'm surprised since you have a vivid imagination on all the forums you post on, but I never said this. I've said we will never know who the best team was because the Astros cheated. I've got no delusions at all about what occurred in 2017. My team cheated.

This is you basically saying the astros were just doing what everyone else was doing or would do and the astro players are no different than any other team.
"So if anything, this tells me about the lack of moral compass in professional baseball players. That Astros team wasn't full of morally bankrupt individuals outside the norm of baseball. It was full of modern day baseball players all looking for an edge and not giving a shit about the purity of the game or who might be hurt.

2015 Yankees busted cheating. 2017 Yankees and Red Sox busted cheating. Dodgers busted cheating with laser pointers of some sort. 2018 Red Sox busted cheating. etc etc etc"

That's not my "vivid imagination"
That's you trying to minimize what the Astro team did.

 

[El Goyo]

This is you basically saying the astros were just doing what everyone else was doing or would do and the astro players are no different than any other team.
"So if anything, this tells me about the lack of moral compass in professional baseball players. That Astros team wasn't full of morally bankrupt individuals outside the norm of baseball. It was full of modern day baseball players all looking for an edge and not giving a shit about the purity of the game or who might be hurt.

2015 Yankees busted cheating. 2017 Yankees and Red Sox busted cheating. Dodgers busted cheating with laser pointers of some sort. 2018 Red Sox busted cheating. etc etc etc"

That's not my "vivid imagination"
That's you trying to minimize what the Astro team did.

Even LeBron put his foot down. Maybe you guys discussed it.

 

[Hook'Em0608]

This is you basically saying the astros were just doing what everyone else was doing or would do and the astro players are no different than any other team.
"So if anything, this tells me about the lack of moral compass in professional baseball players. That Astros team wasn't full of morally bankrupt individuals outside the norm of baseball. It was full of modern day baseball players all looking for an edge and not giving a shit about the purity of the game or who might be hurt.

2015 Yankees busted cheating. 2017 Yankees and Red Sox busted cheating. Dodgers busted cheating with laser pointers of some sort. 2018 Red Sox busted cheating. etc etc etc"

That's not my "vivid imagination"
That's you trying to minimize what the Astro team did.

I'm not minimizing anything. I'm talking about the broken culture in baseball that allows this to continue to happen decade after decade. Every decade something new rocks the baseball world. This time, it was the Astros, if things continue, it will be something else.

 

[Battlelyon]

 

[El Goyo]

This is you basically saying the astros were just doing what everyone else was doing or would do and the astro players are no different than any other team.
"So if anything, this tells me about the lack of moral compass in professional baseball players. That Astros team wasn't full of morally bankrupt individuals outside the norm of baseball. It was full of modern day baseball players all looking for an edge and not giving a shit about the purity of the game or who might be hurt.

2015 Yankees busted cheating. 2017 Yankees and Red Sox busted cheating. Dodgers busted cheating with laser pointers of some sort. 2018 Red Sox busted cheating. etc etc etc"

That's not my "vivid imagination"
That's you trying to minimize what the Astro team did.

Why don’t the Angels ever cheat? We could use a title.

 

[Mofo]

Okay to clarify my point some and make it specific to this Astros issue, so teams have been trying to steal signs since the invention of baseball. Everybody agrees with this. If you figure out the other teams signs, it’s okay to tell the batter what is coming if you have a runner on second base, but no other time. It’s okay to use a camera feed to try to help figure these out, but you can only study this information before or after the game. All of these things are technically against the rules of course, but everyone accepts that they are allowed as long as you do them exactly like I’ve stated.

Oh, and if the pitcher does something slightly different for each type of pitch that helps the batter know what is coming, then it is generally regarded as the pitchers fault because DUH everyone knows that the batter is desperately looking for any indication to help him know what is coming.

Before anyone tries to claim I’m absolving the Astros of wrongdoing, that ain’t it. They cheated and should be punished. I just find the player outrage silly when the sport is completely shaped by unwritten rules, most of which are technically “cheating”. When a team is cheating, nobody seems to say anything until after the fact. So in reality, they don't really care if it's benefitting them at the time. So they have no moral high ground to stand on.

The only folks I sympathize with is the fans. I truly do feel bad for fans who had high quality teams capable of winning it all and we will never truly know who the best team was.

Well, we know which team it isn’t.

The problem is more that this is being treated like it’s a single player / PED infraction. It isn’t, because this was a coordinated conspiracy to cheat that included all the players on the team, coaches, managers and was done with the full knowledge of- if not blessing of, the front office.