Haskins...Yes or No?

[skinsdad62]

Film study: Haskins has what it takes to succeed with the 'Skins

Here is a good report on Haskins

 

[Stymietee]

Redskins fans are raving about this Dwayne Haskins film session

Now 6 tds vs MI. Doesn’t impress you then I don’t know what would or his ability to read defenses

Very impressive film study! The most impressive part of all was his mention of what he didn't know about protections coming to O state. He subsequently made it his goal to learn everything about protections then added tendencies of each defensive player from particular defensive sets. With proper handling and good health, I believe that he'll shatter every passing record for this team in short order.

 

[j_y19]

A lot of folks believe the this is a make or break season for Gruden (& honestly I was more for not bringing him back this season). People also believe that if they don't make the playoffs or come extremely close that he is history.

However you have to wonder if Haskins development will be factored into any decision in that area. We have seen other young QBs not realize their potential since they go though numerous head coaches, coordinators, etc. I am not stating that this will be the deciding factor but just something that factors into the equation. Hopefully the Skins have decent success next season (not holding my breath because this is more about long term success) so that this is not even an issue.

Well, it should be a factor. With most football people,, it would be. But we are talking about Snyder and Allen here. Rarely does football reasoning come into play with their personnel decisions.

 

[Sportster 72]

Very impressive film study! The most impressive part of all was his mention of what he didn't know about protections coming to O state. He subsequently made it his goal to learn everything about protections then added tendencies of each defensive player from particular defensive sets. With proper handling and good health, I believe that he'll shatter every passing record for this team in short order.

Right on. I loved the story about talking to his (then) future OC about protections and how much he learned from that day. So you think he can be as good as Cousin's. As you know I am somewhat teasing. He also showed a good understanding of coverages the D was employing and where to attack them.

I happened to see a lot of Cousin's when he was at Michigan State and still has things to work. Fumbling too often when sacked and doesn't see backside defenders in zone defense. Although said he still is the only QB in the league the last 4 years that has thrown for 4,000+ yards and 25+ TDs. If we can get the same or better from Haskins I will be excited.

 

[skinsdad62]

What if Haskins isn’t the guy we need?

from the dark side . if you look at BU qbs in 2020 you wouldnt be wrong

 

[Sportster 72]

What if Haskins isn’t the guy we need?

from the dark side . if you look at BU qbs in 2020 you wouldnt be wrong

Interesting note; The list of guys drafted 15th or later in the 1st round is pretty sparse. There are at least three starting QBs drafted later - Wilson, Cousin's and Dak in that period.

 

[skinsdad62]

Interesting note; The list of guys drafted 15th or later in the 1st round is pretty sparse. There are at least three starting QBs drafted later - Wilson, Cousin's and Dak in that period.

yep

 

[Stymietee]

Right on. I loved the story about talking to his (then) future OC about protections and how much he learned from that day. So you think he can be as good as Cousin's. As you know I am somewhat teasing. He also showed a good understanding of coverages the D was employing and where to attack them.

I happened to see a lot of Cousin's when he was at Michigan State and still has things to work. Fumbling too often when sacked and doesn't see backside defenders in zone defense. Although said he still is the only QB in the league the last 4 years that has thrown for 4,000+ yards and 25+ TDs. If we can get the same or better from Haskins I will be excited.

That story was an absolute tell about the drive and character of this player. I'm impressed, but that's nothing new because I've been pushing my POV on both he and Murray for more than a year now. What concerns me is the organization and how well they are able to exert patience and be instructive with him. We've all talked about sitting QB's as well as not sitting them since 2012, and, I've made my position well known in that regard. If they can temper all urges to start him before he's ready, and that's a major "IF" considering the fact that there are jobs on the line and revenue to be made... if they are able to do that and tap into his impressive willingness to learn, then my answer to you question is absolutely yes! he can be as good, but more likely, IMO, probably far better than Kirk. As I said before and I sincerely mean this, This young man is in position to absolutely shatter every passing record there is from the team standpoint. I think that much of him and his potential!

 

[Stymietee]

I want to write something about the Alex Smith trade. Some of us were against it, others for it. Whatever your reasoning happen to be at the time doesn't matter as it is now, of little consequence. What's important is renewing hardened perspectives into softer ones regarding that trade. It ultimately worked out that those of us who were against the trade, myself included, have now a duty, to begrudgingly give some props to those who were in favor of it. Call it luck or misfortune, the Alex Smith trade and that gruesome injury that came later, yielded some light at the end of what appeared to be a long dark futures tunnel for this team. It is conceivable that we now have the long term answer at QB, that remains to be seen, however, what we do now have is hope, something that we never saw coming in the darkness of a 71 million dollar contract and a likely career ending injury.

BTW: since there is a need to issue props, @Sharkinva made the point that Bruce Allen was either the holder of dirt on Dan Snyder or, and I rephrase, one lucky MF'er! I'm not sure if it's proper to call such an injury luck on a team badly in need of some good fortune, but Bruce certainly has run into a good deal of it!

 

[Stymietee]

What if Haskins isn’t the guy we need?

from the dark side . if you look at BU qbs in 2020 you wouldnt be wrong

Interesting article but I believe that the writer purposely misleads the reader in attempting to make his point. His question about Haskins failing is a good one and has yet to be answered definitively, but in the meantime Here are the distortions that I found in the article:

1. Any mention of Heath Schuler must be accompanied with the total organizational dysfunction and mishandling of their "future" QB. Norv Turner admittedly wanted to turn Schuler into Aikman then failed to stick with him as he did with Aikman who finished his rookie season 0-11. I won't mention that Dallas systematically continued to fill its roster with future HOF'ers, while D.C fielded the likes of Terry Allen (a good player), Michael Westbrook, Scott Galbraith, and a well past his prime Henry Ellard. I know why Schuler failed but those who are in favor of the old sink or swim method will never agree with me.

2. He writes about the second half of the draft as if D. Haskins fits into that grouping. There are 32 teams in the NFL draft and the midpoint is pick 16 down, not 15. He also provided a list of players, none drafted higher than 17th, as a comparative sample as he qualified them with..."The second half of the first round hasn’t proven to be fertile ground for finding franchise quarterbacks." I will once again point out that 15th isn't in the second half of the draft. Using his metric 2007 thru 2018 top half QB's include:

2007...Jamarcus Russell (1)
2008...Matt Ryan (3)
2009...Matthew Stafford (1) and Mark Sanchez (5)
2010...Sam Bradford (1)
2011...Cam Newton(1), Jake Locker(8), Blaine Gabbert(10) and Christian Ponder(12)
2012...Andrew Luck(1), Robert Griffin(2) and Ryan Tannehill(8)
2013...None drafted higher than 16th
2014...Blake Bortles(3)
2015...Jameis Winston(1), Marcus Mariota(2)
2016...Jared Goff(1), Carson Wentz(2)
2017...Mitchell Trubisky(2), Patrick Mahomes(10) and Deshaun Watson(12)
2018...Baker Mayfield(1), Sam Darnold(3), Josh Allen(7) and Josh Rosen(10)

Of these... those closest to Haskins draft position in the first half of the draft including only double digit picks presents us with a much better comparison.

1 Gabbert (10)
2.Ponder (12)
3.MaHomes(10)
4. Watson(12)
5. Rosen(10)

3. He writes about the five teams that (his words) "preferred" other QB options then passed on Haskins before Washington selected him. So, let's take a look at that:

#1 overall, I am convinced that Murray is the better guy so the Cards selecting him makes all the sense in the world.

#6 Ok, he has a point that NO ONE agrees with, the NYG's selection of Daniel Jones still remains a mystery.

#11. The Bengals had far more pressing issues along their offensive line and aren't entirely done with Dalton.

#13 Miami in a smart move became the ONLY real suitor for Josh Rosen, I don't like the guy but hey, they were willing to take a chance on getting him and at the same time bolstering their porous defensive line in selecting a big body named Christian Wilkins.

Denver didn't select before Washington and had recently acquired Joe Flacco.

Finally there's Gruden who's under great pressure to win and do something that he appears reluctant to do... prepare Haskins while insisting upon employing patience in doing so. Failing to do one or both of these things are grounds for termination once you consider who he works for. Two year ago the organization extended Gruden for two more seasons, taking a lot of pressure off of their head man, could come with another extension that signals to player and coach alike that they remain confident in their coach.

 

[Sportster 72]

That story was an absolute tell about the drive and character of this player. I'm impressed, but that's nothing new because I've been pushing my POV on both he and Murray for more than a year now. What concerns me is the organization and how well they are able to exert patience and be instructive with him. We've all talked about sitting QB's as well as not sitting them since 2012, and, I've made my position well known in that regard. If they can temper all urges to start him before he's ready, and that's a major "IF" considering the fact that there are jobs on the line and revenue to be made... if they are able to do that and tap into his impressive willingness to learn, then my answer to you question is absolutely yes! he can be as good, but more likely, IMO, probably far better than Kirk. As I said before and I sincerely mean this, This young man is in position to absolutely shatter every passing record there is from the team standpoint. I think that much of him and his potential!

Sty, this is conversation worth having a beer or 20 over. I think I will start with perception first. Griffin and Haskins were/have been accepted with open arms. From the beginning Cousin's being drafted 4th in the same year as Griffin was met with anger and bewilderment. I understood from the beginning the Shanahan's were hedging the move Dan wanted of trading up to get Griffin. Cousin's was their insurance policy. Even after he was installed as a starter Cousin's was not accepted by the FO or many of the fans. Many fans talk about him being over paid but when you look at his three starting years he made a little less than $43 million or about a $14 million average for the three years. Cousin's will likely end with stats greater than every Redskin QB. Now please notice I did not say he was better than Baugh or Jurgensen.

Now lets go to Haskins. First I was not in favor of drafting a QB in the first round this year. However I knew Dan wanted Haskin's and in the end the FO got not only Haskins but the edge rusher I was hoping they would draft in the 1st round. I have made posts with both positive and a more negative side of Dwayne. Mostly as a school of thought and to see where others saw him. Kind of like a science test. Because they didn't trade up for him and because they got an edge rusher to make the D even better I liked the draft. I liked it for other reasons also but I don't want to thread jack myself. I see potential in Haskins. I do not see a finished product. I love the way he understands protections and can read defenses after one year. He also possesses an NFL arm. As for the other side I believe he has to work on accuracy. His stats say he has a high completion rate but he threw many passes 10 yards or less. Remember Brunnell and Campbell? I don't think he is either of those guys. He also needs to learn to handle pressure better but some indicators say that with coaching he has a good chance of doing that better. I have hope for the young man and I also hope the FO doesn't rush him.

So now back to one of my favorite subjects. The Skins screwing the pooch with how they handled Cousins. I would love to see Haskins play as well or better than Cousins. With another 5-7 years Cousins will likely end up about a top 50 all time QB. So that is high aspiration for the young man and would be great for the Redskins. I feel that because Haskins is a Dan choice he won't have to go through the crap that Cousins did unless Haskins is a bust. I don't think he will be a bust. The question is how high can he go. Lets all hope he is better than the previous No. 7 and Cousins. I think that would make all of us happy. Hell, I hope Sweat is more Von Miller than RK. If those two things happen I think there will be a lot happy Redskin fans. Having said what I did about Dan and Dwayne, never forget how quickly Dan's opinion changed of Arrington.

 

[skinsdad62]

I want to write something about the Alex Smith trade. Some of us were against it, others for it. Whatever your reasoning happen to be at the time doesn't matter as it is now, of little consequence. What's important is renewing hardened perspectives into softer ones regarding that trade. It ultimately worked out that those of us who were against the trade, myself included, have now a duty, to begrudgingly give some props to those who were in favor of it. Call it luck or misfortune, the Alex Smith trade and that gruesome injury that came later, yielded some light at the end of what appeared to be a long dark futures tunnel for this team. It is conceivable that we now have the long term answer at QB, that remains to be seen, however, what we do now have is hope, something that we never saw coming in the darkness of a 71 million dollar contract and a likely career ending injury.

BTW: since there is a need to issue props, @Sharkinva made the point that Bruce Allen was either the holder of dirt on Dan Snyder or, and I rephrase, one lucky MF'er! I'm not sure if it's proper to call such an injury luck on a team badly in need of some good fortune, but Bruce certainly has run into a good deal of it!

not doing any such thing . he didnt perform for the price we paid for him and the capitol we gave up . the thing that really stings is i predicted this scenario

and when /if he returns you will get my 2 years left of holding him to the standard KC was as i put up with for 3 years total with KC

 

[skinz2winz]

Interesting article but I believe that the writer purposely misleads the reader in attempting to make his point. His question about Haskins failing is a good one and has yet to be answered definitively, but in the meantime Here are the distortions that I found in the article:

1. Any mention of Heath Schuler must be accompanied with the total organizational dysfunction and mishandling of their "future" QB. Norv Turner admittedly wanted to turn Schuler into Aikman then failed to stick with him as he did with Aikman who finished his rookie season 0-11. I won't mention that Dallas systematically continued to fill its roster with future HOF'ers, while D.C fielded the likes of Terry Allen (a good player), Michael Westbrook, Scott Galbraith, and a well past his prime Henry Ellard. I know why Schuler failed but those who are in favor of the old sink or swim method will never agree with me.

2. He writes about the second half of the draft as if D. Haskins fits into that grouping. There are 32 teams in the NFL draft and the midpoint is pick 16 down, not 15. He also provided a list of players, none drafted higher than 17th, as a comparative sample as he qualified them with..."The second half of the first round hasn’t proven to be fertile ground for finding franchise quarterbacks." I will once again point out that 15th isn't in the second half of the draft. Using his metric 2007 thru 2018 top half QB's include:

2007...Jamarcus Russell (1)
2008...Matt Ryan (3)
2009...Matthew Stafford (1) and Mark Sanchez (5)
2010...Sam Bradford (1)
2011...Cam Newton(1), Jake Locker(8), Blaine Gabbert(10) and Christian Ponder(12)
2012...Andrew Luck(1), Robert Griffin(2) and Ryan Tannehill(8)
2013...None drafted higher than 16th
2014...Blake Bortles(3)
2015...Jameis Winston(1), Marcus Mariota(2)
2016...Jared Goff(1), Carson Wentz(2)
2017...Mitchell Trubisky(2), Patrick Mahomes(10) and Deshaun Watson(12)
2018...Baker Mayfield(1), Sam Darnold(3), Josh Allen(7) and Josh Rosen(10)

Of these... those closest to Haskins draft position in the first half of the draft including only double digit picks presents us with a much better comparison.

1 Gabbert (10)
2.Ponder (12)
3.MaHomes(10)
4. Watson(12)
5. Rosen(10)

3. He writes about the five teams that (his words) "preferred" other QB options then passed on Haskins before Washington selected him. So, let's take a look at that:

#1 overall, I am convinced that Murray is the better guy so the Cards selecting him makes all the sense in the world.

#6 Ok, he has a point that NO ONE agrees with, the NYG's selection of Daniel Jones still remains a mystery.

#11. The Bengals had far more pressing issues along their offensive line and aren't entirely done with Dalton.

#13 Miami in a smart move became the ONLY real suitor for Josh Rosen, I don't like the guy but hey, they were willing to take a chance on getting him and at the same time bolstering their porous defensive line in selecting a big body named Christian Wilkins.

Denver didn't select before Washington and had recently acquired Joe Flacco.

Finally there's Gruden who's under great pressure to win and do something that he appears reluctant to do... prepare Haskins while insisting upon employing patience in doing so. Failing to do one or both of these things are grounds for termination once you consider who he works for. Two year ago the organization extended Gruden for two more seasons, taking a lot of pressure off of their head man, could come with another extension that signals to player and coach alike that they remain confident in their coach.

You have said a lot here Sty but I just wanted to respond to your final comments on Gruden because he seems to be in a complex situation in which he is somewhat a lame duck coach but... has shiny new tools to work with in Haskins, McLaurin, Harmon, Guice etc. Do you fire him after this season because we only win 6 games with very young players who are growing together or do you keep them all (Player/Coach) intact for another 3-4 years to see what Gruden makes of it? I say he gets an extension after this season and more so to keep him and Haskins together but I still see Gruden as the Marvin Lewis of the NFC. Player friendly coach who just can't get over the top and consistently win year in and year out. I think you are on to something and I feel an extension coming for Gruden. Most will question this move since he has virtually won nothing during his time in DC.

 

[Sportster 72]

Gruden may be Snyder's Jason Garrett.

 

[skinsdad62]

i think gruden inherited a crap roster , then got a shitty qb situation with awful drama , followed by 2 years of incredible injuries .

its hard to say what he is

 

[tomcat1]

That story was an absolute tell about the drive and character of this player. I'm impressed, but that's nothing new because I've been pushing my POV on both he and Murray for more than a year now. What concerns me is the organization and how well they are able to exert patience and be instructive with him. We've all talked about sitting QB's as well as not sitting them since 2012, and, I've made my position well known in that regard. If they can temper all urges to start him before he's ready, and that's a major "IF" considering the fact that there are jobs on the line and revenue to be made... if they are able to do that and tap into his impressive willingness to learn, then my answer to you question is absolutely yes! he can be as good, but more likely, IMO, probably far better than Kirk. As I said before and I sincerely mean this, This young man is in position to absolutely shatter every passing record there is from the team standpoint. I think that much of him and his potential!

This thread has potential my friend!

I know, I haven't voted yet but I need to see more before I cast my vote. Hopefully I will see enough to cast my vote before you close the polls.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

i think gruden inherited a crap roster , then got a shitty qb situation with awful drama , followed by 2 years of incredible injuries .

its hard to say what he is

Agree 100%. However nobody ever said that coaching decisions are fair or even make sense (especially w/ Skins). You look at moves like Cards dumping their coach (& QB) after one season & replacing him with a complete coaching unknown. Then you also scratch your head about the number of seasons Marvin Lewis remained on the job. These decisions very often don't make sense or involve any amt of patience.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Highly likely that many folks here (perhaps myself included) will be screaming for Gruden's head at the end of the season if they have a losing record unless there are extremely extenuating circumstances.

This may not even make sense because expectations should not be that high given their relatively tough schedule, high amt of youth, holes at various spots & track record. I have been optimistic thus far & the off season has been great for the most part, but you have to be somewhat realistic (& realize that some of this will take time to develop - beyond this season). We will see - let's pray for surprising results.

 

[skinsdad62]

Highly likely that many folks here (perhaps myself included) will be screaming for Gruden's head at the end of the season if they have a losing record unless there are extremely extenuating circumstances.

This may not even make sense because expectations should not be that high given their relatively tough schedule, high amt of youth, holes at various spots & track record. I have been optimistic thus far & the off season has been great for the most part, but you have to be somewhat realistic (& realize that some of this will take time to develop - beyond this season). We will see - let's pray for surprising results.

I expect us to contend for a playoff spot if we are relatively healthy . If we are and we fail then the HC has to be looked at

 

[tomcat1]

I expect us to contend for a playoff spot if we are relatively healthy . If we are and we fail then the HC has to be looked at

dad, with all due respect I think you are being way too optimistic even though I hope I'm wrong.

6-10, 7-9, or 8-8 at best seems to be more accurate at his point with the cards I'm reading.