Warren Moon or Jim Kelly?

[DHoey]

If you don't think Givins, Hill, Duncan & Jeffires, with Lorenzo White in the backfield, and a very good OL, was stacked weaponry, I don't know what to tell you.

Reed, Lofton, Thurman, Beebe, Metzelaars > Haywood, Hill, Duncan and Givens

 

[shopson67]

And he did everything in his power to blow those games by hucking interception after interception. 6 turnovers against the Washington Redskins. I know Warren Moon was Captain Fumble as well, but jeebus. Kelly made it easy on those D coordinators.

Are you honestly using INTs as a stat FOR Moon, lol?

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Are you honestly using INTs as a stat FOR Moon, lol?

hrmm.. well, yes Warren Moon threw a lot of interceptions... but I already admitted his fumble problems! Leave me alone shopson!

 

[shopson67]

kelly was good... and good enough to bring his team to 4 SB in a row... but Moon was better in every single aspect...

Better in every single aspect?

Completion percentage: Kelly (60.1 to 58.4)
QB Rating: Kelly (84.4 to 80.9)
TD%: Kelly (5.0 to 4.3)
Yards/Att, NetYards/Att, AdjNetYards/Att: all Kelly
Winning % (questionable QB stat admittedly): Kelly (Moon had 1 more win in 48 more games)

Kelly took marginally more sacks (slightly higher sack %: 6.33 to 6.29), threw marginally more INTs (slightly higher INT %: 3.7 to 3.4)

Moon was a much higher volume passer with more longevity, sure.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Better in every single aspect?

Completion percentage: Kelly (60.1 to 58.4)
QB Rating: Kelly (84.4 to 80.9)
TD%: Kelly (5.0 to 4.3)
Yards/Att, NetYards/Att, AdjNetYards/Att: all Kelly
Winning % (questionable QB stat admittedly): Kelly (Moon had 1 more win in 48 more games)

Kelly took marginally more sacks (slightly higher sack %: 6.33 to 6.29), threw marginally more INTs (slightly higher INT %: 3.7 to 3.4)

Moon was a much higher volume passer with more longevity, sure.

i will admit... i like exaggerating... sometimes it does hurt my argument... but i think it is fair that Moon is better by more than a few rankings...

Like if you listed the top 50 QBs of all time... there would be more than 5 QBs in between them... not that that means much...

from a quick glance it looks like Moon had the best single season of the 2... Moon in 1990...

Moon had better longevity.

are you claiming Kelly was better than moon or just disproving my insane claim??

 

[shopson67]

are you claiming Kelly was better than moon or just disproving my insane claim??

both

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

Moon never took the Oilers to even the AFC Championship game. 3-7 playoff record and I believe he lost to the Bills twice in the post-season.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

both

well lets look at this...

according to AV(which is Football reference stat similar to WAR in baseball- it has its flaws, and not a great stat to use other than just for a quick analysis)...

i will list the top 10 seasons of the both players combined...

1. Moon 1990
2. Kelly- 1991
3. Moon -1991
4. Kelly-1990
5. Kelly- 1992
6,7,8 tied Moon 1989, Moon 1995, Kelly 1988
6 way tie for 9th and 10th 4 by Kelly, 2 by moon


Kelly had 9 seasons with a AV of 10 or better
Moon had 11 seasons of an AV 10 or better...

what this shows me, is that Moon was better at his best, but both had similar careers in consistency and overall good seasons...

so it is actually pretty close...

but when the same player has better longevity, and better best seasons, then the comparison itself is not close...

 

[Wazmankg]

kelly was good... and good enough to bring his team to 4 SB in a row... but Moon was better in every single aspect...

what aspects?

the odd thing is, Moon even has longevity over Kelly, even though Kelly started at 26, and Moon at 28...

Longevity is really the only thing he has over Kelly. Talentwise they're pretty even imo. Both borderline top 20 all time.

 

[shopson67]

well lets look at this...

according to AV(which is Football reference stat similar to WAR in baseball- it has its flaws, and not a great stat to use other than just for a quick analysis)...

i will list the top 10 seasons of the both players combined...

1. Moon 1990
2. Kelly- 1991
3. Moon -1991
4. Kelly-1990
5. Kelly- 1992
6,7,8 tied Moon 1989, Moon 1995, Kelly 1988
6 way tie for 9th and 10th 4 by Kelly, 2 by moon


Kelly had 9 seasons with a AV of 10 or better
Moon had 11 seasons of an AV 10 or better...

what this shows me, is that Moon was better at his best, but both had similar careers in consistency and overall good seasons...

so it is actually pretty close...

but when the same player has better longevity, and better best seasons, then the comparison itself is not close...

Or, when one player takes his team to 4 consecutive Super Bowls....?

 

[fknhippie]

I've killed a lot of brain cells since they both played, but I give the edge to Moon.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Or, when one player takes his team to 4 consecutive Super Bowls....?

but didnt win one... he also threw way too many post season interceptions... threw 7 more post season interceptions than TDs... maybe they lost BECAUSE of him....

 

[shopson67]

but didnt win one... he also threw way too many post season interceptions... threw 7 more post season interceptions than TDs... maybe they lost BECAUSE of him....

There's no way that's worse than only getting past the first round twice.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

There's no way that's worse than only getting past the first round twice.

its not worse.... of course it is better... BUT if you dont win one, then you cant use it as the bonus for career... he is still a perpetual loser...

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Kelly was a big reason for those "strong teams". Bills were 2-14 the year before he arrived, climbed to 12-4 within 3 seasons.

Oh, absolutely he was a big reason for their turnaround. That's why he's in the HOF but they also built a very good roster and the AFC was very weak at the time and Kelly was really reckless with the ball. He also was one of those guys that saved his worst games for the play-offs and SB. I was never insinuating he was just along for the ride but there was a lot more to the team then just him. A very similar team to the current Eagles in a lot of ways or the Niners of the last couple of years.

 

[shopson67]

Oh, absolutely he was a big reason for their turnaround. That's why he's in the HOF but they also built a very good roster and the AFC was very weak at the time and Kelly was really reckless with the ball. He also was one of those guys that saved his worst games for the play-offs and SB. I was never insinuating he was just along for the ride but there was a lot more to the team then just him. A very similar team to the current Eagles in a lot of ways or the Niners of the last couple of years.

Moon was part of that "very week" AFC at the time. For this comparison, the strength of the conference overall doesn't count against Kelly.