Good Riddance Oakland

[WilltheThrill]

I wasn't aware that the Enquire covered baseball.
Suspicion is one thing proving it is quite another. How in the world does one player get busted and the rest of the team skate? Doesn't make sense. If Brett Anderson used steroids to come back so fast I wonder why Brandon McCarthy is hurt all the time? They won with pitching and if they did it with steroids then you have to wonder why are they not still playing?
Most everything I read and heard about the A's for the last two and a half months was that they wouldn't hold up to the pressure or that their pitching was to young to sustain them in a pennant race.

Read a bit more Al. These aren't tin foil hat people. These are respected journalists and well-established bloggers posting the same stuff I'm saying. It's not some outlandish theory. The numbers certainly back it up.

And who knows why Colon was caught and the others weren't or haven't been yet. Why was Barry Bonds able to get away with it for so long? Why was Canseco busted but McGwire wasn't until later? I'm not privy to how MLB conducts their tests other than they are supposedly at random. Maybe the other A's were more careful. Maybe they weren't tested. I don't know. But I do know that an entire team of career .200/10 HR guys don't suddenly and magically become the leading HR hitting team in baseball while batting in the 2nd most pitcher-friendly stadium in baseball. Again, if you can provide me an example of a team that has ever experienced the overwhelming and sudden power surge that the A's had this year, I'm listening.

And Brandon McCarthy was almost killed by a line drive to the head. No amount of steroids in the world would fix that. As for his other injuries, those occurred in prior seasons.

 

[WilltheThrill]

Getting swept in OAK by OAK pitching ... not their batting ... scoring only 9 runs in 3 games when it mattered is what did TEX in ... not OAK bats.

I wouldn't call Game 162 a pitcher's duel. I'd say it was the 11 Oakland runs that did us in. We scored more than enough to win that game.

The A's caught us for 2 reasons:

1) We simply stunk for a whole month and played with a sense of arrogance and "don't worry we've got this" that I've never seen from a Rangers team before.

2) The A's led the major leagues in home runs from the All-Star break until the end of the season. A gross majority of their runs were earned that way. They ranked 17th in batting average but hit more HR's than any other team in a pitcher's park. Not fishy at all.

Also, Oakland has almost always had very good pitching. It's been their pitiful offense which has kept them from contending until this season when, again, a bunch of career mediocre hitters magically transformed into the Bash Brothers 2012.

I credit their young pitching for being very talented. I credit Bob Melvin for being a great manager. But I refuse to just blindly and naively give credit to very lousy hitters for magically becoming the best HR hitters in baseball.

The Charlotte Bobcats don't suddenly win the NBA title. UNT doesn't suddenly play in a BCS bowl game. And .200 hitters don't suddenly discover how to smash 40 HR's after many years in baseball.

 

[Voltaire26]

If you don't make the playoffs your teams' potential means squat. IMO under the new system being in the WC play in is not post season ... or else it wouldn't be called a play in.

I'm not sure I'd give up on your team just yet. I still this the Rangers are the best in the AL and the LA Angels are 2nd. No excuses, no apologies.

 

[fordman84]

I'm not sure I'd give up on your team just yet. I still this the Rangers are the best in the AL and the LA Angels are 2nd. No excuses, no apologies.

Gonna have to see what the team looks like in March to make that call. I see this team not having Hamilton, and trading another big piece to replace his bat.

Maybe trade with MKE for Hart to man 1B, Gentry I'd love to see but we have Martin and I think Gentry has some decent value. I could see Ian being shopped and traded if the right trade is out there.

I was thinking that this offseason might be a legit time to call Philly and ask again about Lee. Elvis and Ian won't do anything for them, but Cruz might.

 

[romeo212000]

Seriously guys. Ian isn't going anywhere. And that's a good thing. Let it go.

 

[fordman84]

Seriously guys. Ian isn't going anywhere. And that's a good thing. Let it go.

I agree, but he should be shopped. Everyone, every season should be shopped. You never know when someone is desperate to make a splash and willing to part with someone you didn't think you had a shot at.

 

[Hambombs]

Who cares about these teams. Fuck the cardinals of all teams!

 

[Al Falfa]

Read a bit more Al. These aren't tin foil hat people. These are respected journalists and well-established bloggers posting the same stuff I'm saying. It's not some outlandish theory. The numbers certainly back it up.

And who knows why Colon was caught and the others weren't or haven't been yet. Why was Barry Bonds able to get away with it for so long? Why was Canseco busted but McGwire wasn't until later? I'm not privy to how MLB conducts their tests other than they are supposedly at random. Maybe the other A's were more careful. Maybe they weren't tested. I don't know. But I do know that an entire team of career .200/10 HR guys don't suddenly and magically become the leading HR hitting team in baseball while batting in the 2nd most pitcher-friendly stadium in baseball. Again, if you can provide me an example of a team that has ever experienced the overwhelming and sudden power surge that the A's had this year, I'm listening.

And Brandon McCarthy was almost killed by a line drive to the head. No amount of steroids in the world would fix that. As for his other injuries, those occurred in prior seasons.

McCarthy was on the DL twice in 2012 before the head injury for shoulder soreness. Guess they didn't share the goodies.
If Josh Reddick is your poster boy for steroids then why did he hit less HRs in the second half, 24-14? He also had a career year in games played, over 150 and his AB's increased by 400. Also with a team of steroid users you would expect that at least one would hit .300 with all this added muscle, ie bat speed.
Until someone comes up with some solid evidence to the contrary all this A's steroid talk is just that... A lot of talk.

 

[slugger82685]

McCarthy was on the DL twice in 2012 before the head injury for shoulder soreness. Guess they didn't share the goodies.
If Josh Reddick is your poster boy for steroids then why did he hit less HRs in the second half, 24-14? He also had a career year in games played, over 150 and his AB's increased by 400. Also with a team of steroid users you would expect that at least one would hit .300 with all this added muscle, ie bat speed.
Until someone comes up with some solid evidence to the contrary all this A's steroid talk is just that... A lot of talk.

actually it was 20-12, but I still agree with your point

 

[slugger82685]

I wouldn't call Game 162 a pitcher's duel. I'd say it was the 11 Oakland runs that did us in. We scored more than enough to win that game.

The A's caught us for 2 reasons:

1) We simply stunk for a whole month and played with a sense of arrogance and "don't worry we've got this" that I've never seen from a Rangers team before.

2) The A's led the major leagues in home runs from the All-Star break until the end of the season. A gross majority of their runs were earned that way. They ranked 17th in batting average but hit more HR's than any other team in a pitcher's park. Not fishy at all.

Also, Oakland has almost always had very good pitching. It's been their pitiful offense which has kept them from contending until this season when, again, a bunch of career mediocre hitters magically transformed into the Bash Brothers 2012.

I credit their young pitching for being very talented. I credit Bob Melvin for being a great manager. But I refuse to just blindly and naively give credit to very lousy hitters for magically becoming the best HR hitters in baseball.

The Charlotte Bobcats don't suddenly win the NBA title. UNT doesn't suddenly play in a BCS bowl game. And .200 hitters don't suddenly discover how to smash 40 HR's after many years in baseball.

bro you are making yourself look really bad with all these accusations without providing evidence as to why you think all this....I mean your stats arent even accurate, no one hit more than 32 HRs or batted higher than .292 so I dont know where you are getting all these inflated numbers from, I guess just pulling them straight out of your ass.

I have also not read anything from any credible site suggesting that the reason for the A's success this year was from steroids or PEDs.....you claim that you have read numerous article that back your statements up, why dont you post those on here?

And when the Rays went from last place then making the WS the very next year did you also claim they were on roids too? Probably not, because this year the team that came out of no where was the team that beat your team for the division and you are just being a bitter fan that cant accept it without making some ridiculous claims and excuses.

Also, this A's team is a completely different team than the past few seasons. They made a lot of trade last offseason and definitely got some power in the lineup that they hadnt had in a while. They put rookies as starters and gave others full time ABs that they hadnt yet to see in their careers and it just fell into place for them. And to take all that credit away by claiming they are all on roids and that was the reason for their success is just absolutely pathetic as a Rangers fan.

 

[Windingmywatch]

I'm not sure I'd give up on your team just yet. I still this the Rangers are the best in the AL and the LA Angels are 2nd. No excuses, no apologies.

Fans didn't give up on TEX ... TEX gave up ... playing inferior ball from an inferior lineup ... and an inflated opinion of themselves. If TEX is the best in the AL as you say ... then their failure is a failure of leadership.

Failure of leadership falls on Wash and on Young The Spare (who now truly is a spare in every sense of the word).

 

[jta4437]

bro you are making yourself look really bad with all these accusations without providing evidence as to why you think all this....I mean your stats arent even accurate, no one hit more than 32 HRs or batted higher than .292 so I dont know where you are getting all these inflated numbers from, I guess just pulling them straight out of your ass.

I have also not read anything from any credible site suggesting that the reason for the A's success this year was from steroids or PEDs.....you claim that you have read numerous article that back your statements up, why dont you post those on here?

And when the Rays went from last place then making the WS the very next year did you also claim they were on roids too? Probably not, because this year the team that came out of no where was the team that beat your team for the division and you are just being a bitter fan that cant accept it without making some ridiculous claims and excuses.

Also, this A's team is a completely different team than the past few seasons. They made a lot of trade last offseason and definitely got some power in the lineup that they hadnt had in a while. They put rookies as starters and gave others full time ABs that they hadnt yet to see in their careers and it just fell into place for them. And to take all that credit away by claiming they are all on roids and that was the reason for their success is just absolutely pathetic as a Rangers fan.

Smart people who can't read... awesome

 

[slugger82685]

Smart people who can't read... awesome

yes, thats what it sounds like WilltheThrill cant read.....not so sure about the smart thing though

 

[WilltheThrill]

yes, thats what it sounds like WilltheThrill cant read.....not so sure about the smart thing though

He was referring to you genius. I've provided post after post of evidence and stats why I think this and yet you still aren't smart enough to read it.

I'm done with you because you have the reading comprehension level of a 1st grader. I never said anything about any Oakland hitter hitting above .300. In fact I specifically stated that they were in the bottom half as a team in batting average. I also just posted in plain English that the Oakland hitters were on 40-HR PACES. You keep accusing me of pulling stuff "out of my arse", yet it is you who can't seem to read plain English.

I have provided countless statistical pieces of evidence which definitely point toward steroid usage on their team.

And your Tampa Bay example just shows how little you understand. Tampa Bay went from cellar to contender because of talent and timely hitting. David Price. Evan Longoria. James Shields. BJ Upton. Carl Crawford. Matt Garza. All TALENTED players, not career .200 hitters. And you don't seem to understand that it's he HR hitting of Oakland which I take exception with. It's not their record or that they won the AL West, it's the means in which they did it.

Terrible hitters with terrible batting averages who all went on sudden insane HR binges. They led all of baseball in HR's. What part about that don't you get?

The Rays became contenders because of talent. The Orioles won this year with talent. The Yankees and Tigers are winning because of talent.

Talent, talent, talent, talent. How many times must I explain this to you? Oakland's hitters are not talented. They never have been in their entire careers. They are .200 hitters. They were again this year. But they somehow went from a powerless team into the top HR-hitting team in baseball. The fact that you think that it's normal just shows how incredibly stupid you are.

The only one digging the hole deeper here is you. I'm posting stuff in plain English which you just can't seem to grasp. No matter how many times I say that I give other teams like Baltimore, NY, and Detroit credit, you still say that I'm just whining about the Rangers losing. I even say that I was suspicious of Oakland roiding back when the Rangers were still in 1st place. It has nothing to do with the Rangers losing and everything to do with a group of minor leaguers leading MLB in hitting HR's in Oakland's stadium of all places.

 

[WilltheThrill]

McCarthy was on the DL twice in 2012 before the head injury for shoulder soreness. Guess they didn't share the goodies.
If Josh Reddick is your poster boy for steroids then why did he hit less HRs in the second half, 24-14? He also had a career year in games played, over 150 and his AB's increased by 400. Also with a team of steroid users you would expect that at least one would hit .300 with all this added muscle, ie bat speed.
Until someone comes up with some solid evidence to the contrary all this A's steroid talk is just that... A lot of talk.

I think that the fact that Oakland's group of career .200-.220 hitters suddenly went on such an extreme HR hitting binge in Oakland's pitcher's park to lead all of baseball in HR's is more than enough evidence for people to legitimately question whether they were juicing, especially when one of their own was already busted for it.

I never said every last player for their team was juicing either. There's no doubt in my mind that several of their hitters were though, and the overwhelming statistical evidence supports my claim. And of course all it is is just talk. That's what this board is for, isn't it? I'm not the commissioner of baseball or the head of the anti-doping agency, so ultimately my opinion means nothing to the Oakland A's.

But my opinion is a very informed one and not one created out of jealousy, bitterness, or some wild conspiracy theory. History has shown that any time an abnormal spike in power production from an otherwise mediocre singles hitter has occurred, often steroids were behind it. Bret Boone, Melky Cabrera, Brady Anderson... 3 examples right there of guys who suddenly powered up one year to become HR-hitting beasts. And if it had been just 1 or 2 A's who had exceptional years, I wouldn't have suspected as much. But 10 of their hitters put up abnormally high HR totals compared to years past.

How do you explain that? Luck? Everyone on their team just got insanely hot and suddenly became able to physically do things they were never able to in the past?

If their success was due largely to timely hits and seeing eye singles, that would be much more understandable. But mostly it wasn't. It was their sudden ability to hit HR's at a pace that none of them had ever reached before that gets me.

Do I have 100% undeniable saw-them-injecting-themselves proof? Of course not. But I do know what is statistically reasonable and believable and what they accomplished HR-wise is just out of the realm of legitimacy for such mediocre hitters.

 

[slugger82685]

WilltheThrill;2441645]He was referring to you genius[/B]. I've provided post after post of evidence and stats why I think this and yet you still aren't smart enough to read it.

I'm done with you because you have the reading comprehension level of a 1st grader. I never said anything about any Oakland hitter hitting above .300. In fact I specifically stated that they were in the bottom half as a team in batting average. I also just posted in plain English that the Oakland hitters were on 40-HR PACES. You keep accusing me of pulling stuff "out of my arse", yet it is you who can't seem to read plain English.

I have provided countless statistical pieces of evidence which definitely point toward steroid usage on their team.

And your Tampa Bay example just shows how little you understand. Tampa Bay went from cellar to contender because of talent and timely hitting. David Price. Evan Longoria. James Shields. BJ Upton. Carl Crawford. Matt Garza. All TALENTED players, not career .200 hitters. And you don't seem to understand that it's he HR hitting of Oakland which I take exception with. It's not their record or that they won the AL West, it's the means in which they did it.

Terrible hitters with terrible batting averages who all went on sudden insane HR binges. They led all of baseball in HR's. What part about that don't you get?

The Rays became contenders because of talent. The Orioles won this year with talent. The Yankees and Tigers are winning because of talent.

Talent, talent, talent, talent. How many times must I explain this to you? Oakland's hitters are not talented. They never have been in their entire careers. They are .200 hitters. They were again this year. But they somehow went from a powerless team into the top HR-hitting team in baseball. The fact that you think that it's normal just shows how incredibly stupid you are.

The only one digging the hole deeper here is you. I'm posting stuff in plain English which you just can't seem to grasp. No matter how many times I say that I give other teams like Baltimore, NY, and Detroit credit, you still say that I'm just whining about the Rangers losing. I even say that I was suspicious of Oakland roiding back when the Rangers were still in 1st place. It has nothing to do with the Rangers losing and everything to do with a group of minor leaguers leading MLB in hitting HR's in Oakland's stadium of all places.

it was called "sarcasm" jackass, I knew exactly who he was talking about...why dont you look up the term and actually learn something.

steroids this....blah blah blah....steroids that...blah blah blah....do you visit area 51 often too? are we all from alien decent? is the world gonna end on Dec. 21?....you still have yet to provide physical fucking stats you idiot!.....a lot of those guys have most certainly provided power numbers in the minors because you obviously werent aware of that, yet were never given the full opportunity in the majors. Jesus, their numbers did not come out of fucking nowhere you fool, the talent is there they just needed the opportunity....I mean did you steal their urine and test for roids to make these dumb ass claims?....probably the only guy who really had a power surge that was more than usual was Brandon Moss, but still its not like his minor league numbers didnt show power, it just wasnt at the rate that he displayed, but are these guys not allowed to get on a hot streak just because they are not as seasoned as others? give me a break man, save the speculation for the national enquirer you jealous prick

 

[kennyt12]

it was called "sarcasm" jackass, I knew exactly who he was talking about...why dont you look up the term and actually learn something.

steroids this....blah blah blah....steroids that...blah blah blah....do you visit area 51 often too? are we all from alien decent? is the world gonna end on Dec. 21?....you still have yet to provide physical fucking stats you idiot!.....a lot of those guys have most certainly provided power numbers in the minors because you obviously werent aware of that, yet were never given the full opportunity in the majors. Jesus, their numbers did not come out of fucking nowhere you fool, the talent is there they just needed the opportunity....I mean did you steal their urine and test for roids to make these dumb ass claims?....probably the only guy who really had a power surge that was more than usual was Brandon Moss, but still its not like his minor league numbers didnt show power, it just wasnt at the rate that he displayed, but are these guys not allowed to get on a hot streak just because they are not as seasoned as others? give me a break man, save the speculation for the national enquirer you jealous prick

Must be hard being a Rangers fan win you live right outside of LA!

 

[slugger82685]

Must be hard being a Rangers fan win you live right outside of LA!

And you live in China, what is your point?

 

[guitarmy21b]

This thread reeks of butthurt. I'm all for yelling fuck the A's but to try and take anything away from them when they played their asses off and we played like shit is pretty lame.

 

[WilltheThrill]

it was called "sarcasm" jackass, I knew exactly who he was talking about...why dont you look up the term and actually learn something.

steroids this....blah blah blah....steroids that...blah blah blah....do you visit area 51 often too? are we all from alien decent? is the world gonna end on Dec. 21?....you still have yet to provide physical fucking stats you idiot!.....a lot of those guys have most certainly provided power numbers in the minors because you obviously werent aware of that, yet were never given the full opportunity in the majors. Jesus, their numbers did not come out of fucking nowhere you fool, the talent is there they just needed the opportunity....I mean did you steal their urine and test for roids to make these dumb ass claims?....probably the only guy who really had a power surge that was more than usual was Brandon Moss, but still its not like his minor league numbers didnt show power, it just wasnt at the rate that he displayed, but are these guys not allowed to get on a hot streak just because they are not as seasoned as others? give me a break man, save the speculation for the national enquirer you jealous prick

You need help.

I have provided stats multiple times, once in full detail in another thread and several times throughout this thread citing specific rankings, averages, and home run rates. I could go back through and bold face them for you, but I'm not sure even that would help you. Also, the fact that you think Josh Donaldson, Derek Norris, Josh Reddick, Coco Crisp, and Seth Smith have ever profiled as power hitters is laughable. Gomes and Carter aren't exactly Canseco and McGwire either.

And I know exactly what sarcasm means, thank you. I along with everyone else on here just have a hard time recognizing it when it's lacking any kind of real wit at all. For instance, a good example of sarcasm would be for me to say that you are a mature, well-adjusted person who doesn't get way too bent out of shape about someone accusing a team of roiding on a message board. Judging by your rage on this thread, I'd say it's pretty obvious why the topic of steroids hit a nerve with you.

And the jealous and butthurt comments still hold no water whatsoever as I have been mentioning the abnormal power surge from Oakland long before they ever overtook the Rangers, and I've given credit to the other teams still left standing for being better than the Rangers.

You're the only one flying off the handle here. Al disagreed with me, but even he admitted that while there is no proof and it's all just a bunch of talk and baseless accusations, their power numbers were a bit suspicious. You're brand new around here, so for you to be profanely raging against anyone and calling them a "jealous prick" just reeks of ignorance on your part since you don't even know me and you didn't even bother to look up my original post with all of the stats which do show a highly unnatural increase in the HR rates in Oakland.

If you don't think that Oakland's minor league lineup full of career .200 hitters leading the entire MLB in HR's for the 2nd half of the season while playing their home games in Oakland's spacious pitcher's paradise is even the slightest bit suspicious, then there is no point in even trying to carry on a conversation about baseball with you.