Game #4 - Patriots vs Buffalo Bills 9/29/2019

[Rex Racer]

It's not being stubborn if I am correct. But you judging me hold no bearing I really don't care what you think of me on a personal level.

You have your head up your ass on this issue and I'm not surprised that you've taken the attitude that everyone else is wrong, but you.

 

[YankeeRebel]

You have your head up your ass on this issue and I'm not surprised that you've taken the attitude that everyone else is wrong, but you.

Well the NFL seems to agree with me. But I guess you and others know more then the league and the refs. Typical blind Pats homerism.

 

[Rex Racer]

Well the NFL seems to agree with me. But I guess you and others know more then the league and the refs. Typical blind Pats homerism.

Really? Did the NFL fine or suspend Jones? Was he even ejected from the game?

You can keep prattling on and on about how Allen was being dragged to the ground (he wasn't) and how the big QB didn't lower his head (he did) and you'll continue to be wrong.

Jones is 5'10" and Josh Allen is 6'5". Jones could have fucking killed him when Allen lowered his head, but he pulled up and turned his shoulder to the runner just as the runner leaned forward, lowering his head to bull rush through the 2nd tackler in an effort to reach the 1st down marker.

You're seeing what you want to see at this point and your comments make you sound like you just started watching football this year.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

If people wanted to argue it was unintentional I could agree with that, but arguing that Jones didn't initiate the H2H makes no sense to me.

Watch the video again by nefansince75 post #74.
Jones clearly turns his shoulder forward as Allen lowers his head, just as Harmon makes contact, but long before he has him "wrapped up". Clearly. To not admit that is just obstinate and obtuse.

Allen's fault. He never never attempted to slide, he wanted the first down, even if he had to run through Jones. But the refs will not fault a QB in situation like this. Have to protect the QB.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Really? Did the NFL fine or suspend Jones? Was he even ejected from the game?

You can keep prattling on and on about how Allen was being dragged to the ground (he wasn't) and how the big QB didn't lower his head (he did) and you'll continue to be wrong.

Jones is 5'10" and Josh Allen is 6'5". Jones could have fucking killed him when Allen lowered his head, but he pulled up and turned his shoulder to the runner just as the runner leaned forward, lowering his head to bull rush through the 2nd tackler in an effort to reach the 1st down marker.

You're seeing what you want to see at this point and your comments make you sound like you just started watching football this year.

My understanding is fines are not released until Tuesday. So riddle me this Boy Wonder, did the refs flag him? Did BB even attempt to argue the call? Did any of his teammates on the filed attempt to argue the call? Surely in a a game this close where yardage is a premium one would think if the coach questioned is he would at least approach the refs.

Allen was being dragged to the ground Harmon was engaged in the tackle which knocked Allen off balance, Allen was protecting the ball at the same time while heading to the ground when Jones engaged in the H2H, that's the way the refs saw it, that is what the replay showed because that's the way it happened. You and others turning a blind eye doesn't make it any different.

I am not seeing what I want to see I am seeing what the refs saw. It's your blind yet feeble attempt at homerism that's the issue here.

I answered your questions here is two for you? Was there helmet to helmet contact? Did the refs throw the flag on the play?

 

[YankeeRebel]

Watch the video again by nefansince75 post #74.
Jones clearly turns his shoulder forward as Allen lowers his head, just as Harmon makes contact, but long before he has him "wrapped up". Clearly. To not admit that is just obstinate and obtuse.

Allen's fault. He never never attempted to slide, he wanted the first down, even if he had to run through Jones. But the refs will not fault a QB in situation like this. Have to protect the QB.

Watching it again only reassures me how wrong you and others are about this. It never ceases to amaze me how defensive Pats fans are. Jones is responsible for the control of his body, he initiated the hit that caused the helmet to helmet contact while Allen was on his way to the ground which automatically created a first down situation.

This whole thing has that Spygate & Deflategate feel where Pat's fans assume the Pats did no wrong and the league is just picking on them.

 

[YankeeRebel]

"The league reviewed tape of the hit and determined Jones did not engage in the type of play that should have led to an ejection. Jones was still penalized for the play, so Belichick may want to go over some extra tackling pointers in practice this week." Report on Yahoo...

It basically is saying the league looked at the hit and the penalty was warranted and not the ejection. At this point I'm just going to leave it alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bill-b...id-what-weve-coached-him-to-do-234335558.html

 

[nefansince75]

It's not being stubborn if I am correct. But you judging me hold no bearing I really don't care what you think of me on a personal level.

That's why these arguments are good. I 100% disagree with you and think the onus was on Allen. Intent is key and Jones attempted a shoulder slam while Allen continued forward initiating the H2H...

With that said we disagree, don't need to agree and I see nothing changing either of us...

SO BE IT! Right?

 

[nefansince75]

"The league reviewed tape of the hit and determined Jones did not engage in the type of play that should have led to an ejection. Jones was still penalized for the play, so Belichick may want to go over some extra tackling pointers in practice this week." Report on Yahoo...

It basically is saying the league looked at the hit and the penalty was warranted and not the ejection. At this point I'm just going to leave it alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bill-b...id-what-weve-coached-him-to-do-234335558.html

You need to know this isn't just Pats fans being defensive. I googled and found this twitter feed on the topic and it does not seem to be Pats fans... and the video clip (the same as I showed above) sure makes it seem like Allen lowering his head for collision into Jones, and also that Harmon barely had him grasped until the hit.

I'm not saying you should change your opinion, just see that the opinions are divided and not just haters vs homers.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Watching it again only reassures me how wrong you and others are about this. It never ceases to amaze me how defensive Pats fans are. Jones is responsible for the control of his body, he initiated the hit that caused the helmet to helmet contact while Allen was on his way to the ground which automatically created a first down situation.

This whole thing has that Spygate & Deflategate feel where Pat's fans assume the Pats did no wrong and the league is just picking on them.

First.
I am a Pats Fan.
I am also a football fan.
I have gone to more Titans games over the years than I have Pats games because I am here in Tennessee and I enjoy football.
I would defend a player for any team that was in Jones position.

Second.
This is my point.
He initiated contact. That's his job.
He did not aim for helmet to helmet, that was inadvertent, not intended.
The refs see it at game speed once, not on a slow motion gif they can watch over and over.
There was a game years ago when they were really starting to protect the passer and somebody wrapped up Ben Rothlesberger (sp?) but did not throw him down for fear of being flagged. All forward momentum stopped, backward, sideways, whatever.
Ref was running over and put his whistle in his mouth, all other players stopped...guy let him go. Ben threw a TD or a 1st down. Whistle hadn't been blown. Play through the whistle, honestly and as cleanly as you can and let the chips fall where they may.

Third.
I was wondering how long it was going to take you to pull the Pats Fan/Spygate/Ballgazi card.
It's your go to.



Fourth.
It's all good dude. A difference of opinion is only that.

 

[Southieinnc]

I looked at a still of the hit from a different angle and saw jone cock his eyebrow before the hit. After the hit the creases in his lips showed a bit of a wry smile.

It’s all in the details children!

 

[nefansince75]

I looked at a still of the hit from a different angle and saw jone cock his eyebrow before the hit. After the hit the creases in his lips showed a bit of a wry smile.

It’s all in the details children!

This is funny from the position that I believe Jones had no intention of hurting Allen and did not do these things, but you mocking that he did... I would not condone actually celebrating a serious injury to anyone.

 

[Southieinnc]

This is funny from the position that I believe Jones had no intention of hurting Allen and did not do these things, but you mocking that he did... I would not condone actually celebrating a serious injury to anyone.

I wa mocking all the patriots fans bickering in this thread. Anybody claiming to have a superior knowledge of what happened from far away should never be allowed to be a juror.

 

[nefansince75]

I wa mocking all the patriots fans in this thread. Anybody claiming to have a superior knowledge of what happened from far away should never be allowed to be a juror.

I'd say that statement is out of line since several times it has been mentioned that there's complete respect for another viewpoint. I am well aware there are two angles and one makes Allen look like the cause of the force and the other Jones.

I have two main points here: 1) Jones was standing ground and preventing a first down, as Allen was trying to gain the first down; 2) Allen has to know better as he essentially knocked himself out of the game.

 

[BigKen]

So far, Jones has not been fined by the NFL.

He will not be suspended because after review, the league officials did not feel that hit was an intentional act to harm the other player, Josh Allen.

The league wants to deter helmet to helmet but they don't want to completely take defense out of the game. Incidental contact will always occur in a game that moves as fast football and is as brutal as it as. No one wants to see QBs knocked out of games. That said, QBs cannot assume the role of running back and be afforded greater protection than a running back.

 

[TP76]

I would be shocked if Jones gets a fine, and if he does, he will win the appeal. He took the shot to the ear-hole and I'm beyond surprised he wasn't also concussed on that play.

Fines usually get doled out Wednesday

 

[Rex Racer]

I looked at a still of the hit from a different angle and saw jone cock his eyebrow before the hit. After the hit the creases in his lips showed a bit of a wry smile.

It’s all in the details children!

That's interesting, could you share the Zapruder film of this incident with the rest of the class?

 

[Southieinnc]

That's interesting, could you share the Zapruder film of this incident with the rest of the class?

I wasn’t there. Honest.

 

[Southieinnc]

I'd say that statement is out of line since several times it has been mentioned that there's complete respect for another viewpoint. I am well aware there are two angles and one makes Allen look like the cause of the force and the other Jones.

I have two main points here: 1) Jones was standing ground and preventing a first down, as Allen was trying to gain the first down; 2) Allen has to know better as he essentially knocked himself out of the game.

Nobody has ever called me “out of line” before.....

 

[nefansince75]

Nobody has ever called me “out of line” before.....

then nobody still has... The statement itself is out of line with then sentiment of respect for other views repeatedly stated throughout the thread.