Game #4 - Patriots vs Buffalo Bills 9/29/2019

[Yankee Traveler]

BEING DRAGGED TO THE GROUND!!!!! .

This....

He was dragging Harmon.
He was not already down.
He could have continued to drag Harmon all the way across the first down marker and beyond.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

If he lowered the shoulder there never would have been helmet to helmet. Again Allen was being tackled ie no longer in control Jones had complete control of his body and initiated the helmet to helmet contact.

Putting this on Allen is like shanking a punt and blaming the long snapper.

When I watch the video, I see Jones turning his shoulder forward. That does not seem an attempt to initiate helmet to helmet to me.

 

[YankeeRebel]

This....

He was dragging Harmon.
He was not already down.
He could have continued to drag Harmon all the way across the first down marker and beyond.

Alright dude fuck it you're right, the refs got it wrong. " Out to get the Pats at all costs "...

 

[YankeeRebel]

When I watch the video, I see Jones turning his shoulder forward. That does not seem an attempt to initiate helmet to helmet to me.

Great okay. Have a nice day.

 

[nefansince75]

If he lowered the shoulder there never would have been helmet to helmet. Again Allen was being tackled ie no longer in control Jones had complete control of his body and initiated the helmet to helmet contact.

Putting this on Allen is like shanking a punt and blaming the long snapper.

I think we are all looking at different plays. Did Jones knock Allen out of the game twice? The play I saw it was very clear Jones attempt was a solid shoulder clash and nothing else.

 

[nefansince75]

Alright dude fuck it you're right, the refs got it wrong. " Out to get the Pats at all costs "...

In the current environment the call goes safety first and I don't see a lot of complaints about the penalty because at gamespeed who would blame the refs when the goal is safety. That doesn't mean Allen wasn't the most negligent on that play.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

If he lowered the shoulder there never would have been helmet to helmet. Again Allen was being tackled ie no longer in control Jones had complete control of his body and initiated the helmet to helmet contact.

Putting this on Allen is like shanking a punt and blaming the long snapper.

I am not a "Big" guy. But my shape is...normal.

That said, distance from my shoulder to my neck is roughly the width of my hand, fingers slightly spread. Not a highly precise measurement, I admit.

Height of my head, from my traps to the top is almost twice that dimension.

So a normal head, with a helmet, if launched perpendicular to the ground, would probably strike me in the side of my helmeted head and clear a padded shoulder.

Expecting Jones to step aside like a matador is ludicrous.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Alright dude fuck it you're right, the refs got it wrong. " Out to get the Pats at all costs "...

I think the refs do the best they can.

 

[BigKen]

This was written on Buffalo Rumblings a Buffalo Bills Community Site.
Why wasn’t Jonathan Jones ejected for his hit on Josh Allen?

On a day where the refs certainly weren’t their best, the most controversial decision of the day was the correct one

For those fans who live under a rock, you might not have heard yet that Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen exited the game in the fourth quarter after taking a nasty helmet-to-helmet hit from Jonathan Jones. The refs flagged Jones for the hit, but did not eject him from the game. The decision to allow Jones to continue playing has drawn a significant amount of ire from the fan base. But according to NFL rules and guidance, they got it right. Let’s examine the rule.

There are two opposing thoughts on the play and it’s my belief it’s the reason for the disconnect. There’s reality and then there’s the rules. Nowhere is this more glaring than the number of times I’ve seen someone state that Jones was flagged for “helmet-to-helmet.” He was not. There actually isn’t even such a rule for the circumstances of the play, where Allen was a runner who had not given himself up.

The actual flag was unnecessary roughness under rule 12-2-8(i) which reads as: “using any part of a player’s helmet or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent.” You may have noticed that nowhere in that rule does it take into account whether or not the hit was helmet-to-helmet.

For a broader understanding of what the NFL is intending, let’s look at the rule that most people thought Jones was flagged under—12-2-10 also known as “use of the helmet”—that is usually penalized as “lowering the head to initiate contact.” You may remember this rule caused a stir last season when it was first implemented. So much so that I made a primer for it following the Bills vs. Carolina Panthers preseason game.

While the location in the rule book has changed, the rule has not. It reads. “It is a foul if a player lowers his head to initiate and make contact with his helmet against an opponent.” You may notice that this, too, has nothing to do with helmet-to-helmet. Under both rules it makes zero difference where you strike an opponent. The only difference between the two rules is that the latter has a component of lowering the head. Think “eyes to the ground.” Which leads us to the spirit of the rule.

The entire point of either rule isn’t to penalize every helmet-to-helmet shot (especially since neither rule mentions anything of the kind). The NFL released a fact sheet to accompany the use of a helmet penalty last year. If you clicked through, what you’ll find is a rule intended to promote the “heads up” style of tackling. There’s no evidence to suggest the NFL believes it can legislate helmet-to-helmet collisions. The two rules are intended to promote a tackling style that reduces the risk of such hits. If you put on five minutes of any NFL game you’re sure to see legal helmet-to-helmet contact. I can’t state this enough, it’s a rule intended to reduce, not eliminate blows to the head.

So why was Jones flagged, and why one penalty rather than the other? Let’s take a look at a still of the hit.

Photo by Bryan M. Bennett/Getty Images
For me personally, I prefer the lowering the head penalty rather than unnecessary roughness. But to be fair, I got to see it more than once before making that call. Both rules have a component of using the helmet to make contact and there’s zero doubt that Jones hit Allen helmet-first. So the question then becomes “did he lower his helmet?”

I think he did, but in the still his eyes aren’t right at the ground. He lowered his head, but not completely, making this an understandable gray area for the refs. Notice too the line on the image. Jones hasn’t established a “linear” body position, which is visualized as the torso running parallel to the ground. If we’re being objective, aside from leading with his helmet Jones is tackling pretty well based on the fact sheet. And he was flagged for the one thing he did wrong.

Now both rules allow for “disqualification,” which is more commonly referred to as “ejection.” For the roughness penalty the hit needs to be considered “flagrant.” This is not defined in the rules. For lowering the head, there’s a three-prong test officials were told to look at. Because of the similarity in the rules, it’s highly likely the refs are looking at similar standards. Let’s put Jones’s hit through the three-prong test.

1. Unobstructed path to his opponent—No doubt about it
2. Contact clearly avoidable and player delivering the blow had other options—Also very clear
3. Player lowers his helmet to establish a linear body posture prior to initiating and making contact with the helmet—This absolutely did not occur

I keep harping on this, but it’s because it’s critical; Helmet-to-helmet contact is not in that test. The NFL talks and acts like the helmet-to-helmet blows are the focus and to some degree they are. However the rules make it difficult for the officiating crew to use that as a standard. If the NFL has such a difficult time connecting the dots, it’s no wonder that fans do as well.

Before we close I’d like to quickly address one other common thought. Specifically, that the enforcement is hit or miss on these types of hits. Micah Hyde spoke out and indicated that a person hitting Tom Brady the same way would be ejected. I’m not a fan of this argument. Aside from comparing to something that didn’t happen, Brady is notorious for giving himself up way too early and not attempt to carry grown men around like toddlers. A player getting hit like this while giving himself up like Brady would likely be, or when the play is effectively dead is certainly a better case for ejection. One has to look no further than Vontaze Burfict’s ejection yesterday to see what I mean.

The rules contain a level of subjectivity and because of that there will always be valid complaints. But in the context of the parameters given to officials, most of the time the decisions actually make sense. Dirty hit? Maybe a little. Dirty enough to be disqualified? Not quite.

 

[BigKen]

Looking at the still...............................

Harmon was being dragged, not dragging Allen down

Obviously Jones made contact with his helmet.

It's also obvious by Jones' position that he intended to nail him with his shoulder.

The helmet contact was incidental not intentional.

MY get tells me that Jones will get a $25,000 fine which Kraft will pay.

 

[Southieinnc]

Again he was BEING DRAGGED TO THE GROUND!!!!! His Arms were wrapped up when Jones lowered the boom with the crown of his helmet. I honestly don't see how this is being argued.

I'm gonna drop this because I know what I am dealing with here.

No you don't. It was a good call. If you take a snapshot you'll fing Jones head "high" but if you watch the play, it drops for the contact. If they are going to tell the defense to watch the hits on Brady, they'll have to protect Allen too......

 

[Southieinnc]

I think we can all agree, that was one ugly fuggling game. Glad it's over.
The game plan was awful! WTF?

And I for one think that twenty other QB's could have played better than Brady - Hate me.....

 

[nefansince75]

No you don't. It was a good call. If you take a snapshot you'll fing Jones head "high" but if you watch the play, it drops for the contact. If they are going to tell the defense to watch the hits on Brady, they'll have to protect Allen too......

I disagree. There was a first down on the line and two players competing. The rest is incidental. The rules need to be clearer and maybe contact with force be eliminated outside the box. Jones was not targeting. He was just stopping Allen in his tracks.

Another option is change the line to gain from 10 to eiter 8 or 12 yards... That would fix THIS play.

 

[nefansince75]

I think Allen should be suspended for this hit.

 

[redseat]

Dear god I couldn't watch the offensive barf fest! I left and went to the REVS game... Brady looked like DogSH*T but credit the Bills D for that... The Pats offense is so one dimensional now it's sickening... Edelman and Burkhead need to get healthy FAST!

I'll certainly take the win... THANKS DEFENSE!!! Brady needs to buy the entire defense and Special Teams UGGS!

 

[YankeeRebel]

I think we are all looking at different plays. Did Jones knock Allen out of the game twice? The play I saw it was very clear Jones attempt was a solid shoulder clash and nothing else.

Sure that's why he slammed his helmet into Allen because he wears his helmet on his shoulder.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Looking at the still...............................

Harmon was being dragged, not dragging Allen down

Obviously Jones made contact with his helmet.

It's also obvious by Jones' position that he intended to nail him with his shoulder.

The helmet contact was incidental not intentional.

MY get tells me that Jones will get a $25,000 fine which Kraft will pay.

You can't tell shit from a still, some person took the perfect photo that could be used to try an make a point while completely ignoring all facets of the play. Yeah a still makes perfect sense. Oyyyy

 

[YankeeRebel]

If people wanted to argue it was unintentional I could agree with that, but arguing that Jones didn't initiate the H2H makes no sense to me.

 

[Rex Racer]

If people wanted to argue it was unintentional I could agree with that, but arguing that Jones didn't initiate the H2H makes no sense to me.

You're a stubborn fucker, I'll give you that.

 

[YankeeRebel]

You're a stubborn fucker, I'll give you that.

It's not being stubborn if I am correct. But you judging me hold no bearing I really don't care what you think of me on a personal level.