Forte trade rumors?

[cubzzzfanincali]

did you guys see this?

http://www.dabears.com/threads/chic...ions-for-matt-forte-rumors-indicate-yes.7269/

 

[wood20ks]

No..........But would it make sense?

we have enough holes to fill. That would do nothing but create another one.
I would tend to think we would get a 2nd rd`er for him.and then maybe pick up murray from Dallas if were to decline the cowboys and test free agency waters.Which I believe dallas keeps him.

I just don`t see it happening myself.

 

[anotheridiot]

I still cant believe anything I read on a site called spots mockery.

Would a different running back have gotten positive yards so Cutler or Whoever you want to blame would not have abandoned the run?

Did this have anything to do with DeAngelo Williams being released?

Big punishing backs like Lynch and Lacey (who I wanted badly that draft) are now the nfl prototype. Forte has always been the prototypical 3rd down back playing all downs.

I guess it would depend on the move. I dont think its 7 and forte to get to 2 or 1, its probably forte for a first rounder this year and next year. Seems to be the norm, give up 2 first rounders for a productive player.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I still cant believe anything I read on a site called spots mockery.

Would a different running back have gotten positive yards so Cutler or Whoever you want to blame would not have abandoned the run?

Did this have anything to do with DeAngelo Williams being released?

Big punishing backs like Lynch and Lacey (who I wanted badly that draft) are now the nfl prototype. Forte has always been the prototypical 3rd down back playing all downs.

I guess it would depend on the move. I dont think its 7 and forte to get to 2 or 1, its probably forte for a first rounder this year and next year. Seems to be the norm, give up 2 first rounders for a productive player.

No universe gets us a first for forte. As brad Biggs correctly pointed out, no one is going to trade a bou chip asset for a 30 year old running back who will get a hefty paycheck in 2015. I doubt he gets traded. I wouldn't mind, I'd actually like to see it, I just doubt any team would give up a good pick for him. He might be worth a fifth rounder.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

No..........But would it make sense?

we have enough holes to fill. That would do nothing but create another one.
I would tend to think we would get a 2nd rd`er for him.and then maybe pick up murray from Dallas if were to decline the cowboys and test free agency waters.Which I believe dallas keeps him.

I just don`t see it happening myself.

well, whether trading Forte is a good idea or not, the "enough holes to fill" reason is definitely not a good argument.

If you could trade Forte, you would:
- use Carey
- acquire $8.2 million in cap space, which you can use to fill other holes
- have another draft pick. How good, don't know, but obviously in theory a pick can be used to fill holes

So trading Forte actually would result in fewer holes than we have now. 3 years from now, he is gone anyway due to his age. So the question isn't whether or not he fills holes or not. The question really boils down to a question about competitiveness in 2015.

I just doubt any team is going to go for a trade for a guy like him. They'd have to be fools. That being said, if someone offered something, I'd hope the Bears would take it.

 

[anotheridiot]

wow, for the first half of the season he led the NFL in receptions. Really dont think he is as worthless as a fifth rounder. If thats all you think he is worth you might as well just cut him.

 

[NCChiFan]

As I posted in another Forum on this subject... Why can't we let players work out their contracts and play for a team until they retire? Why do we "HAVE" to trade or release a guy (unless they don't like a contract, that I get)?

I do not understand why folks feel that as soon as someone hits a certain age, trade or release. Frankly, we were all wrong on Peppers. Forte was the 3rd leading RB in yardage from scrimmage last season! Really, who here thinks we can't use that type of production next year or think that that kind of production is easy to replicate?

 

[wood20ks]

well, whether trading Forte is a good idea or not, the "enough holes to fill" reason is definitely not a good argument.

If you could trade Forte, you would:
- use Carey
- acquire $8.2 million in cap space, which you can use to fill other holes
- have another draft pick. How good, don't know, but obviously in theory a pick can be used to fill holes

So trading Forte actually would result in fewer holes than we have now. 3 years from now, he is gone anyway due to his age. So the question isn't whether or not he fills holes or not. The question really boils down to a question about competitiveness in 2015.

I just doubt any team is going to go for a trade for a guy like him. They'd have to be fools. That being said, if someone offered something, I'd hope the Bears would take it.

Not a good argument.........But your answer would Ka`deem carey?..............no thanks.

I have not looked to see who`s out there for freeagency,but if we were to trade/cut/what have you with Cutler,then cutting Forte would not be good idea. Especially for less than a 2nd pick.........He`s worth a 2nd,no higher,no lower.
By trade route,I don`t see how it fills extra holes,unless you mean by throwing anyone in there at rb.
I`m highly doubting they are tradinghim anyways.........So this probably a nil argument.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

He isn't worth a 2nd. He has maybe two years left, and one of them is at a higher cost in salary than he is worth. Particularly how replaceable the running back position has become, I can't see a team trading a 2nd for an old running back who gets league averages in yards-per-rush and whose blocking is falling off.

I think we agree that this is probably just all talk, the circumstances preclude a trade from probably happening.

Just curious, by why are so down on Carey? He averaged .5 more yards per rush than Forte did last season, and he's still a youngster. He only had 6 targets in passing, but he caught 5 of them for solid yardage. He pass blocks pretty well for a rookie. A lot of folks think he may be ready for a breakout. He isn't gifted with either elite speed or elite power, so he is sort of like Forte in that respect, but he seems to be extremely versatile. What don't you like about him? IF the Bears were to get rid of Cutler, which is also unlikely, I don't think it should affect the calculus on Forte. If a deal is good for a franchise, then it's good for a franchise.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

wow, for the first half of the season he led the NFL in receptions. Really dont think he is as worthless as a fifth rounder. If thats all you think he is worth you might as well just cut him.

I doubt they will just cut him...but I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility. Actually out of all the guys on the team, I think Forte is the most likely higher-profile guy to get cut, given that his salary costs a lot, but his dead money hit is relatively puny ($1 million). Bushrod and Jared Allen might be more tempting in terms of guys who aren't worth their cap hits, but their dead money costs are high enough that flat out cuts of them aren't very likely. If the Bears decide they want more cap room (to, for example, extend Alshon Jeffrey...which they really should do NOW), Forte is the most obvious choice.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

As I posted in another Forum on this subject... Why can't we let players work out their contracts and play for a team until they retire? Why do we "HAVE" to trade or release a guy (unless they don't like a contract, that I get)?

I do not understand why folks feel that as soon as someone hits a certain age, trade or release. Frankly, we were all wrong on Peppers. Forte was the 3rd leading RB in yardage from scrimmage last season! Really, who here thinks we can't use that type of production next year or think that that kind of production is easy to replicate?

We don't "have" to do anything. They very well could just let the guy play out the last year of his contract. But all NFL contracts are fluid things, that's why the premium for guaranteed money is so high. Given that it is a salary capped league, when you are a paying a guy....any guy...more than he is worth, you are at a competitive disadvantage compared to other teams. If that disadvantage is avoidable, teams will try to avoid it. What can you say, it's just good old-fashioned competition. It doesn't hurt to consider anything that would make your team better. Anything. Particularly for the long haul.

Forte's 2014 production would not be that hard to replicate. He was a borderline elite back for many years, but those days are fading fast. Most of his nice receiving statistics came on check-down receptions that more or less any other back should be able to make now that he has lost some of his elusiveness.

 

[GNG]

wow, for the first half of the season he led the NFL in receptions. Really dont think he is as worthless as a fifth rounder. If thats all you think he is worth you might as well just cut him.

He could fetch a 4th rounder from a desperate team.

 

[NCChiFan]

Forte's 2014 production would not be that hard to replicate. He was a borderline elite back for many years, but those days are fading fast. Most of his nice receiving statistics came on check-down receptions that more or less any other back should be able to make now that he has lost some of his elusiveness.

I will have to see a lot more decline before I will agree with this assessment in totality, if you're going to argue "check-down receptions" then I must be allowed to argue horrific run blocking by the O line kept his strictly run numbers low.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I will have to see a lot more decline before I will agree with this assessment in totality, if you're going to argue "check-down receptions" then I must be allowed to argue horrific run blocking by the O line kept his strictly run numbers low.

I don't know if you remember or saw a thread on this about a month ago, but Football Outsiders very detailed rushing/blocking statistics don't back that up. The criticism of the Bears line is mostly on their pass blocking, not their run blocking. If I remember right, the Bears' run blocking up the middle was something like 7th in the league. Their only mediocre run blocker was Bushrod.

 

[NCChiFan]

I don't know if you remember or saw a thread on this about a month ago, but Football Outsiders very detailed rushing/blocking statistics don't back that up. The criticism of the Bears line is mostly on their pass blocking, not their run blocking. If I remember right, the Bears' run blocking up the middle was something like 7th in the league. Their only mediocre run blocker was Bushrod.

eh... with the revolving door we had a LG and RT this year, I find it hard to believe. I never saw huge holes like I did watching D. Murray in Dallas (who I watched cause I had him on my FFT...) in Chicago. The obvious would be to say, Kadeem Carey (if you think Forte has lost a step) would have then had a big year with big holes. But, no I didn't see the article from Football Outsiders or PPF.

Edit: Wish we had the Useful grade like we do on the Political forum. I would love to grade your comment that way...

 

[anotheridiot]

I guess its just shocking. The top producers at their position in cutler, marshall and forte are the guys that seem to have the most talk about moving away from.

I really dont care how much money Allen costs, he will not have a spot other than third down undersided hand down pass rusher. It was a mistake to even sign him, a bigger mistake to have this 12.5 roster bonus bullshit, why make it worse by keeping him around just for the 5 games we are playing on turf.

 

[NCChiFan]

I agree on the Allen assessment, and really, I don't have a clue how Young will work in a 3-4, we may just ruined him and made him into a 3rd down specialist. I don't know if he will be Shea opposite, making a LB into a DE, and now with Young, making a DE into a LB?!?!?!?!?! Young doesn't posses the prototypical weight to anchor an end position in a 3-4.

I hope Allen can transition ala Peppers, but I think it is a stretch.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

eh... with the revolving door we had a LG and RT this year, I find it hard to believe. I never saw huge holes like I did watching D. Murray in Dallas (who I watched cause I had him on my FFT...) in Chicago. The obvious would be to say, Kadeem Carey (if you think Forte has lost a step) would have then had a big year with big holes. But, no I didn't see the article from Football Outsiders or PPF.

Edit: Wish we had the Useful grade like we do on the Political forum. I would love to grade your comment that way...

I agree that we didn't have Dallas-sized holes, but no team in the league was as good at run blocking as Dallas, so the fact that the Bears O line wasn't there isn't really that much of a knock on them.

The Bears run stats (according to Football Outsiders): power blocking 11th, stuffed run prevention blocking 9th, 2nd level blocking 12th, and open field 32nd. The open field statistic - because it is an open field statistic, and therefore having essentially nothing to do with the line - is basically all Matt Forte's control, and that was where our running game was the league worst. Draw your own conclusions about that.

As for run direction, left end (beyond line) was 22nd, left tackle 27th, between the tackles 8th (thanks Kyle Long!), right tackle 17th, and right end 9th. So generally above average (except when Bushrod was the point of attack), which accounted for 12% of Bear running plays.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I agree on the Allen assessment, and really, I don't have a clue how Young will work in a 3-4, we may just ruined him and made him into a 3rd down specialist. I don't know if he will be Shea opposite, making a LB into a DE, and now with Young, making a DE into a LB?!?!?!?!?! Young doesn't posses the prototypical weight to anchor an end position in a 3-4.

I hope Allen can transition ala Peppers, but I think it is a stretch.

It's going to be really interesting to see what happens with both of those guys. I don't know, Allen pretty much flat out told Minnesota he wouldn't play 3-4 OLB. Young did a nice job as a 4-3 DE, maybe if he loses some weight he could play the 3-4 OLB. But he doesn't seem ideal. I was reading somewhere that David Bass seems like the perfect guy for a 3-4 OLB...not my opinion, just repeating it.

This should be really interesting to see how the team handles all of this.

 

[wood20ks]

He isn't worth a 2nd. He has maybe two years left, and one of them is at a higher cost in salary than he is worth. Particularly how replaceable the running back position has become, I can't see a team trading a 2nd for an old running back who gets league averages in yards-per-rush and whose blocking is falling off.

I think we agree that this is probably just all talk, the circumstances preclude a trade from probably happening.

Just curious, by why are so down on Carey? He averaged .5 more yards per rush than Forte did last season, and he's still a youngster. He only had 6 targets in passing, but he caught 5 of them for solid yardage. He pass blocks pretty well for a rookie. A lot of folks think he may be ready for a breakout. He isn't gifted with either elite speed or elite power, so he is sort of like Forte in that respect, but he seems to be extremely versatile. What don't you like about him? IF the Bears were to get rid of Cutler, which is also unlikely, I don't think it should affect the calculus on Forte. If a deal is good for a franchise, then it's good for a franchise.

He didn`t play enough for me to say 'Wow" he`s our future............I don`t care what his ave. per carry was either.he ran the ball 36 times all season.thats not a enough to warrant a Forte trade.