Mariners trade deadline thread 2023

[ulmax]

When you have..3 guys doeing something..
On a team...

It's a theme...


Not striking out..is a theme..for Astros...
Cuz it's a big fat..
Zero...when it happens...

Other themes..

Obp..we saw that last year...and has been made a point. of by..
Billy bean ball...and .the movie money ball..

Hrs .Yankees..theme...in voage.sense ..

Babe Ruth..

 

[ulmax]

Thank you ulmax.
You win a cookie .( Don rickles...kellys heros).

Lolololooll

 

[ulmax]

If they traded for .soto..the reason..
Would be..
He only strikes out at a normal rate..

Gurriel..jr...a bit less..

And gurriel .and soto..way less..than..

Hernandez..and kelenic...

But soto.. a free agent .in 2025..
So hardly worth it..
In terms of service time..

 

[ulmax]

Bring on Marlowe .
And .canzone..
Platoon it..

 

[ulmax]

Bregman used to strike out quit a bit..
So it's not something that cant be overcome..

But ya gota work on it..

 

[ulmax]

If mariners..
can tear up.that brick house.
Of don't.
Strike out..ok then .

 

[ulmax]

Wiffle..ball.....hut...
Need a good game plan..

 

[ulmax]

I saw our malicia.break time and again.

Well.i suggest we use that against them.
(The patriot.
Mel gibson)

 

[wazzu31]

Well then I misunderstood when it was insinuated that we should trade away our prospects to get Juan Soto and pay him a mega contract. While I have just been stating that this man has been on two teams putting up numbers and on both teams and both teams are trying to get rid of him and so far what Jerry has been doing has produced nothing but winning seasons and a run in the playoffs.

The Nationals and Padres with Soto have exceeded anything Jerry had done in his entire career though. That is my entire point, their goal shouldn’t be the final wild card, it should be the WS which a guy like Soto allows. He won one with the Nationals got to the NLCS with the Padres and Jerry has exactly 1 playoff appearance and 2 playoff wins in his decade plus career as an executive. That is all I am saying, we as fans should want more than hoping for a sustained chance at a wild card spot and no hope for a World Series ring.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I will preface my rebuttal with I am not objective on it so my arguments are based off of bias instead objective thinking. I think Jerry has done some good things with this rebuild, mostly based off of luck like Preller wanted Nola for some reason, Cano’s agent went to the Mets and the DBack really wanted to get rid of Segura. But on that same note he gave away great eventual players for nothing too. I 100% give him credit for the development of pitchers who go through them and not another pro. But on that same note he gets an F for offensive guys cause none of them stay and work on it.

Again I’ll admit he lost me with his dickwad response after the Marco deal. But I could meet someone in the middle with the he isn’t good or bad. Maybe he’s the kind of guy who is good at point of getting a team to be over .500 then no idea what to do from there. He made the big Castillo splash that everyone was excited for but it was peeps before that and peeps after that.

It could be all ownership, I don’t know. In LA he had an open checkbook, and owner that sided with him and fired the most successful manager and still didn’t sniff a playoff. But if it is Stanton then I want Jerry to but up, cut into him on one of his weekly shows. He’ll get fired most likely but every fan base in the league would be wanting him to be their home teams GM and owners love money.

I can't disagree with anything you've said here, and I'd agree that he gets an F for the offensive guys as well. We've gone back and forth on it and for whatever reason guys come here and regress or become absolutely awful. This goes back decades so I don't know if it is just coincidence or what but it has been a serious problem.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think Jerry Dipoto is an absolute asshole and it goes back to the Marco deal. I just try to remove my feelings regarding his hubris in my assessment of the job he has done and there is a possibility that you could be right that he's good at getting a franchise to above .500, but not have the best ability to manage the roster past there.

I still believe that with the way I suspect the Mariners to be structured, getting money approved for big deals is probably difficult. And I agree he should cut into ownership at least a little. This is Seattle, being passive aggressive is what we're good at.

 

[wazzu31]

I can't disagree with anything you've said here, and I'd agree that he gets an F for the offensive guys as well. We've gone back and forth on it and for whatever reason guys come here and regress or become absolutely awful. This goes back decades so I don't know if it is just coincidence or what but it has been a serious problem.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think Jerry Dipoto is an absolute asshole and it goes back to the Marco deal. I just try to remove my feelings regarding his hubris in my assessment of the job he has done and there is a possibility that you could be right that he's good at getting a franchise to above .500, but not have the best ability to manage the roster past there.

I still believe that with the way I suspect the Mariners to be structured, getting money approved for big deals is probably difficult. And I agree he should cut into ownership at least a little. This is Seattle, being passive aggressive is what we're good at.

My thing with the offense is, until Richie Sexson’s career went in the toilet the Mariners offense was always solid. Batters complained about the batters eye but the Mariners offense was always above average. Once that era ended it’s like everyone just pretended the “marine layer” was the issue not the players. They finally signed someone in Cano then Cruz. Those two showed real hitters don’t have an issue with the “marine layer”.

I know I’m harsh on the guy and may say stuff that isn’t fair and do give him credit for the rebuild but I do truly get annoyed with the he has done an amazing job. He is the reason the Angels imploded and got zero playoff appearances. Is 8 years or whatever into his roll with the Mariners and they aren’t remotely in the World Series conversation. We have to remember with the introduction of the 3rd WC he basically has taken an older team from what would’ve been a 3rd WC team to a younger 3rd WC team.

And if ownership is the issue with signing free agents ok, then he needs to quit pretending that all of his prospects are Julio. If they don’t have the budget then don’t lock themselves into a deal with Julio that makes zero sense for a team who can only supplement him offensively from homegrown talents or other people’s leftovers. That is a frustration of mine is that he is a terrible public speaker in terms of PR but then talks out of both sides of his mouth. Put the expectations on then get mad when fans expect it. Say your an analytics guy but don’t build an analytical offense and pull your best pitcher cause of hard hit ball rate but then leave your rookies out to die when they had the same metrics.

Cutting into management now would be a positive for him. If he gets fired from the Mariners because he cut into them, then some other fan base would beg to have him just because of that. Owners have ego’s and all but they like money and if Jerry passed all the blame he would be fine. IMO owners of sports franchises have never been less popular.

 

[seattlefan75]

The Nationals and Padres with Soto have exceeded anything Jerry had done in his entire career though. That is my entire point, their goal shouldn’t be the final wild card, it should be the WS which a guy like Soto allows. He won one with the Nationals got to the NLCS with the Padres and Jerry has exactly 1 playoff appearance and 2 playoff wins in his decade plus career as an executive. That is all I am saying, we as fans should want more than hoping for a sustained chance at a wild card spot and no hope for a World Series ring.

Well in 2022 the Mariners actually lost to the team that won the WS. If you are willing to be in payroll hell and last place next year all for the sake of making the NLCS then I see your point. I am looking at what this team can be over the next 5-8 years and I see this roster being competitve. Also its not fair to Jerry about how long the team took to get it together when he took over in 2016. As a franchise we were so bad. we had no prospects in the top 50 and Alex Jackson barely made the top 100. The MLB team was just Felix Hernandez and Robinson Cano and a bunch of over paid players stuck on their payroll which I personally want to avoid.

Seattle Mariners Earned $7.2 Million In 2015

PEORIA, AZ - MARCH 10: Robinson Cano #22 of the Seattle Mariners bats against the Chicago Cubs during the first inning of the spring training game at Peoria Stadium on March 10, 2016 in Peoria, Arizona. (Photo by Christian Petersen/Getty Images) It turns out the Seattle Mariners did not just...

www.forbes.com

Look at that article from forbes about the Seattle Mariners. Imagine how daunting it is to be the guy to fix a franchise who hasn't made the playoffs in 20 years. That is why Jerry was out here making timelines because to fix something like this would take years of tanking and having players fall off payroll. The Astros tanked for like 4-5 years before they changed their franchise around.

 

[seahawksfan234]

My thing with the offense is, until Richie Sexson’s career went in the toilet the Mariners offense was always solid. Batters complained about the batters eye but the Mariners offense was always above average. Once that era ended it’s like everyone just pretended the “marine layer” was the issue not the players. They finally signed someone in Cano then Cruz. Those two showed real hitters don’t have an issue with the “marine layer”.

I know I’m harsh on the guy and may say stuff that isn’t fair and do give him credit for the rebuild but I do truly get annoyed with the he has done an amazing job. He is the reason the Angels imploded and got zero playoff appearances. Is 8 years or whatever into his roll with the Mariners and they aren’t remotely in the World Series conversation. We have to remember with the introduction of the 3rd WC he basically has taken an older team from what would’ve been a 3rd WC team to a younger 3rd WC team.

And if ownership is the issue with signing free agents ok, then he needs to quit pretending that all of his prospects are Julio. If they don’t have the budget then don’t lock themselves into a deal with Julio that makes zero sense for a team who can only supplement him offensively from homegrown talents or other people’s leftovers. That is a frustration of mine is that he is a terrible public speaker in terms of PR but then talks out of both sides of his mouth. Put the expectations on then get mad when fans expect it. Say your an analytics guy but don’t build an analytical offense and pull your best pitcher cause of hard hit ball rate but then leave your rookies out to die when they had the same metrics.

Cutting into management now would be a positive for him. If he gets fired from the Mariners because he cut into them, then some other fan base would beg to have him just because of that. Owners have ego’s and all but they like money and if Jerry passed all the blame he would be fine. IMO owners of sports franchises have never been less popular.

Honestly I don't know what it is. I can see how Cano and Cruz worked out, as if Cano hadn't got caught taking PEDs he'd be a Hall of Famer and IMO if Cruz's career started earlier and he didn't get caught taking PEDs, he'd also be a Hall of Famer. But there have just been so many misses that there has to be some other factor at play? Is it possible that we're so bad at scouting hitters that we haven't even really gotten lucky with any of them? I don't know.

I don't think anyone would argue that Dipoto has done an amazing job unless it's someone who just jumped on the Mariners bandwagon the last month of the 2022 season. He rebuilt the team but hasn't really shown that he can take the team to the next level based on his acquisitions the previous two years.

I know I've gone on about this in probably 38% of my Mariners related posts, but I don't see that there is any compelling analytics argument to have a DH by committee unless you have so many excellent hitters in the lineup that you have to use it to get guys in. We're not in that situation. This is a random theory of mine, but him calling himself an analytics guy is the perfect fall back. When his players do well, it's "see I'm right," when his players don't hit well, it's not because he's struggling but because of "XYZ" metric that just seems like BS.

I can see good damn reason why owners of sports franchises aren't popular. It's become clearer and clearer that it's just an investment for them. It's sort of an apples to oranges comparison, but I have a fairly sizable amount of money invested in Amazon. The best thing I've heard about working there is "it's alright." Do I care that Amazon is a shitty place to work if they're making me money? Not really. Similarly to why would owners care that much about performance on the field if they're making money? I don't know that's just kind of how I see it. Why would Stanton care if we're winning when attendance is at a 15 year high?

 

[wazzu31]

Well in 2022 the Mariners actually lost to the team that won the WS. If you are willing to be in payroll hell and last place next year all for the sake of making the NLCS then I see your point. I am looking at what this team can be over the next 5-8 years and I see this roster being competitve. Also its not fair to Jerry about how long the team took to get it together when he took over in 2016. As a franchise we were so bad. we had no prospects in the top 50 and Alex Jackson barely made the top 100. The MLB team was just Felix Hernandez and Robinson Cano and a bunch of over paid players stuck on their payroll which I personally want to avoid.

Seattle Mariners Earned $7.2 Million In 2015

PEORIA, AZ - MARCH 10: Robinson Cano #22 of the Seattle Mariners bats against the Chicago Cubs during the first inning of the spring training game at Peoria Stadium on March 10, 2016 in Peoria, Arizona. (Photo by Christian Petersen/Getty Images) It turns out the Seattle Mariners did not just...

www.forbes.com

Look at that article from forbes about the Seattle Mariners. Imagine how daunting it is to be the guy to fix a franchise who hasn't made the playoffs in 20 years. That is why Jerry was out here making timelines because to fix something like this would take years of tanking and having players fall off payroll. The Astros tanked for like 4-5 years before they changed their franchise around.

The Padres aren’t in payroll hell, there is no salary cap in baseball. But I see you trying to equate their budget vs the Mariners budget but that goes back to you are thinking any fan is asking for the Mariners to go out and buy FA’s which is not the case. You speak of the next 5-8 years as though it is a certainty but dismiss the Padres analogy because of one season in which every analytical metric says they should be in the playoffs. We all want the Mariners to win be competitive for the next 5-8 years but it is IMO, a loser mentality to just want to be a wild card team and never try to win a World Series, which they cannot unless they spend on free agents. He went all in on college pitchers and his whole first round of prospects have graduated or been traded. So there is another 3 years before the next big core is going to be helping the team, but in Jerry’s own words the core is going to be coming up to replace not improve.

How is it not fair to Jerry? He took over the job of team that was fringe playoff material, tore it down and has had 1 playoff appearance in the totality of his tenure. Let’s use the line of logic that he can’t take all of the blame for his first 1/3 of being a GM, he definitely gets the blame for the big fat blunder at 2018 deadline when not tearing it down as they would’ve instantly become a top 10 farm system. He could’ve gone from one of the worst farm systems in the game to one of the best but he chose to do a rebuild a few months later. He does get credit for the playoff appearance 100% but IMO nothing about his words or actions makes me feel his goal is to be a champion.

 

[seattlefan75]

The Padres aren’t in payroll hell, there is no salary cap in baseball. But I see you trying to equate their budget vs the Mariners budget but that goes back to you are thinking any fan is asking for the Mariners to go out and buy FA’s which is not the case. You speak of the next 5-8 years as though it is a certainty but dismiss the Padres analogy because of one season in which every analytical metric says they should be in the playoffs. We all want the Mariners to win be competitive for the next 5-8 years but it is IMO, a loser mentality to just want to be a wild card team and never try to win a World Series, which they cannot unless they spend on free agents. He went all in on college pitchers and his whole first round of prospects have graduated or been traded. So there is another 3 years before the next big core is going to be helping the team, but in Jerry’s own words the core is going to be coming up to replace not improve.

How is it not fair to Jerry? He took over the job of team that was fringe playoff material, tore it down and has had 1 playoff appearance in the totality of his tenure. Let’s use the line of logic that he can’t take all of the blame for his first 1/3 of being a GM, he definitely gets the blame for the big fat blunder at 2018 deadline when not tearing it down as they would’ve instantly become a top 10 farm system. He could’ve gone from one of the worst farm systems in the game to one of the best but he chose to do a rebuild a few months later. He does get credit for the playoff appearance 100% but IMO nothing about his words or actions makes me feel his goal is to be a champion.

So the MLB does not have a hard cap like the NBA or NFL but there is a luxury tax and when you go over that tax there is so much penalty that comes with it. All the teams that go over the luxury tax basically have to start paying all the teams that didnt go over the cap, they also start losing draft picks in the rule of 4 draft and your comp picks from free agents will go from the end of the 1st round to basically the 4th round so you are really riding a lot to win that championship. The terrible situation that the Padres (and Mets in their own respect) is that they are married to Manny Machado until 2034, married to Xander Bogarts until 2033, and Yu Darvish until 2028. Fernando Tatis until 2034 but that was actually a good investment. Now they don't know what to do with Juan Soto. The Nationals offered him a 15 year 440 million extension and he rejected it, and Juan (with Scott Boras as his agent) is apparently looking for Ohtani numbers which is 500 million. Now no team wants to trade for him because nobody wants to deal with that extension, it looks more and more that Juan will want to enter free agency because the Padres suck, they gave up top level prospects to acquire him and in the end leave with nothing.

Now for everyone else that wants to acquire all stars, trade away prospects and pay big bucks for one player. its seems like we have learned nothing from the Erik Bedard trade, we have learned nothing from signing Robinson Cano, Richie Sexson, and Adrian Beltre. Now that we finally have momentum and a young team on the come up only 3 games out of 1st place and now we should change the course and start moving the other direction.

Lastly, and I am probably in the minority here but I view winning the world series as anything goes once October comes. All the stats and wins done in the regular season means nothing. The postseason is a new ball game and everybody's stats go down to 0. Its not a world shocker that a wild card team would go into a series with the #2 seed and win. As long as you have a solid team and good momentum the playoffs and world series is a crapshoot.