Mariners trade deadline thread 2023

[seahawksfan234]

And I could put 1000% wrong, but this is why I think Jerry isn’t a good GM.

I'm on the fence with this. There are a number of things he has done well such as objectively rebuilding this team, drafting and developing pitchers, maintaining a strong farm system, but those things are almost offset by his approach to roster construction. He doesn't believe in a true DH and he seems to collect utility players like they're fucking trophies.

Would I argue he's a good GM? No. Would I argue that he isn't an awful GM? Yes.

I think the biggest problem is the amount ownership is giving him to spend. But if that's the case, then he isn't a good fit because the Mariners have an organizational strength at pitching and he hasn't been able to use that to build an even league average lineup. The Mariners are first in MLB in team ERA and (I was actually surprised to see this) 16th in runs scored.

 

[seahawksfan234]

The thing is if we sign one he is only replacing Teo. We need to build forward and not just replace.

Exactly. We might actually be better off just extending him as many of those outfield options would either be a regression or a lateral move to merely replace him.

Frustrating thing about Jerry is if he could he'd have an entire lineup of Willie Bloomquists, lol.

 

[ulmax]

Canzone clobber.(trident).saves..it.

So far..
Going extras..

 

[NWinAZ]

Frustrating thing about Jerry is if he could he'd have an entire lineup of Willie Bloomquists, lol.

He is almost there.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I thought this was a great take by Divish regarding Ohtani:

Mailbag: Did Mariners chairman John Stanton give any info on team’s plan for Shohei Ohtani?

Did chairman John Stanton give any info on the team's plan to sign Shohei Ohtani in the offseason? That and more in the latest Mariners mailbag.

www.seattletimes.com

"Most sources say he would prefer to stay on the West Coast because of the weather and time zone. He doesn’t like inclement weather that messes up his daily preparation routine. He wants an organization to understand and embrace his personal needs to have success as a two-way player like an extra day of rest between starts, support staff of his choosing and more. He also wants freedom to opt out and not be stuck in a bad situation like teammate Mike Trout.

Why can’t the Mariners offer those things? Why can’t they offer him an 8-year, $470 million contract with an opt out every year after year two? If he opts out, the contract is void. And if the Mariners can’t win a World Series in those two guaranteed years with him, that’s on the organization. If he likes it and stays for more, he is the only free agent that provides viable financial return.

Did the Robinson Cano signing make the Mariners hesitant about making a long-term free agent commitment? Probably. Remember Stanton and Chris Larson were still key players in the previous ownership structure. I think it’s safe to say that Ohtani isn’t Cano and is worth every financial risk.

If they are afraid to offer that sort of money, and that he might say yes, then they should think about moving on from ownership."

 

[ulmax]

If the mariners meet Baltimore again..
They will have 2 players they did not have this time..
Crawford and kelenic.

 

[ulmax]

I'm not into kissing oatani backside..
Neither do I think.the mariners need him.
If you need him as a fan..
Move to L A..

 

[ulmax]

Is LA winning because.Otani is on there team

No..they are not....
So..he does.not make as big a diff..
As the fuss..about him..
Show me.
Were they are winning and I may agree..

 

[NWinAZ]

I thought this was a great take by Divish regarding Ohtani:

Mailbag: Did Mariners chairman John Stanton give any info on team’s plan for Shohei Ohtani?

Did chairman John Stanton give any info on the team's plan to sign Shohei Ohtani in the offseason? That and more in the latest Mariners mailbag.

www.seattletimes.com

"Most sources say he would prefer to stay on the West Coast because of the weather and time zone. He doesn’t like inclement weather that messes up his daily preparation routine. He wants an organization to understand and embrace his personal needs to have success as a two-way player like an extra day of rest between starts, support staff of his choosing and more. He also wants freedom to opt out and not be stuck in a bad situation like teammate Mike Trout.

Why can’t the Mariners offer those things? Why can’t they offer him an 8-year, $470 million contract with an opt out every year after year two? If he opts out, the contract is void. And if the Mariners can’t win a World Series in those two guaranteed years with him, that’s on the organization. If he likes it and stays for more, he is the only free agent that provides viable financial return.

Did the Robinson Cano signing make the Mariners hesitant about making a long-term free agent commitment? Probably. Remember Stanton and Chris Larson were still key players in the previous ownership structure. I think it’s safe to say that Ohtani isn’t Cano and is worth every financial risk.

If they are afraid to offer that sort of money, and that he might say yes, then they should think about moving on from ownership."

And how did Cano, or Cano's contract, negatively affect this organization? I never understood that statement by people.

What he says makes perfect sense and is actually the best outcome for a contract for the Mariners. With that said, they won't offer that money. They could sign 5 past their prime batters (I don't use the word hitters) at that per year salary...

 

[wazzu31]

I'm on the fence with this. There are a number of things he has done well such as objectively rebuilding this team, drafting and developing pitchers, maintaining a strong farm system, but those things are almost offset by his approach to roster construction. He doesn't believe in a true DH and he seems to collect utility players like they're fucking trophies.

Would I argue he's a good GM? No. Would I argue that he isn't an awful GM? Yes.

I think the biggest problem is the amount ownership is giving him to spend. But if that's the case, then he isn't a good fit because the Mariners have an organizational strength at pitching and he hasn't been able to use that to build an even league average lineup. The Mariners are first in MLB in team ERA and (I was actually surprised to see this) 16th in runs scored.

I will preface my rebuttal with I am not objective on it so my arguments are based off of bias instead objective thinking. I think Jerry has done some good things with this rebuild, mostly based off of luck like Preller wanted Nola for some reason, Cano’s agent went to the Mets and the DBack really wanted to get rid of Segura. But on that same note he gave away great eventual players for nothing too. I 100% give him credit for the development of pitchers who go through them and not another pro. But on that same note he gets an F for offensive guys cause none of them stay and work on it.

Again I’ll admit he lost me with his dickwad response after the Marco deal. But I could meet someone in the middle with the he isn’t good or bad. Maybe he’s the kind of guy who is good at point of getting a team to be over .500 then no idea what to do from there. He made the big Castillo splash that everyone was excited for but it was peeps before that and peeps after that.

It could be all ownership, I don’t know. In LA he had an open checkbook, and owner that sided with him and fired the most successful manager and still didn’t sniff a playoff. But if it is Stanton then I want Jerry to but up, cut into him on one of his weekly shows. He’ll get fired most likely but every fan base in the league would be wanting him to be their home teams GM and owners love money.

 

[ulmax]

Mariners after trade deadline..

1crawford....ss..L/L.out.caebllero
2julio.....cf
3.suarez..3b
4.hernandez.rf
5.canzone...LF..L/L
6.rojas....2b.
7.raliegh..catch..
8.france...1b
9.marlowe...dh Murphy..

Bench..
Murphy .catch..
Moore....utility
Haggerty...utility
Marlowe ...of.

Kelenic...out.

I guess I won't care..but a bad taste balk.
Call.is..still....in my mouth..
Spit spit..

 

[ulmax]

All through..the season..down by 2 guys..
Know.
Still .down by 2..will the mariners ever catch a break .
First..
Pollock..
Wong.

Know..
Crawford..
Kelenic..

 

[ulmax]

Good things..
Rojas needs playing time..he will get it.
Canzone and Marlowe .same..

I would not count on any sweeps.they may get one though..with k. C. 2 times .and athletics as well

 

[ulmax]

Still on..shenton..3n/1b Tampa.
Snell..
Gurriel jr..
Yuki matsui..LHP..relief..Japan..

Shota imanaga..LHP..start..Japan.
With 3 pitch..sounds more of relief..
Splitter slider..or national .league.starter

 

[ulmax]

Austin shenton .on the injured...much of 22.
Mariners only.traded him.to.tampa in 21.
So..he is just called..to AAA..from.AA.
And only..5 hrs at.AAA..but 22..overall .in
2023...At ..AAA..and AA.
He is still a good prospect
Better..than people..realize..
Playes mostly .at. 1b..know..he can still.3b.
Hit 303.in 2023....22 hrs..76.rbis..
That is good for 2 lvls.

 

[seattlefan75]

The disconnect you are having is that anyone was asking to give up Harry Ford or Cole Young. No one advocated for tearing up the entire farm system as Bellinger was off the market. The dudes you are talking about that are “over the hill” guys A. Weren’t rentals B. Were pitchers, which the Mariners didn’t need. There were plenty of trades that the Mariners could’ve made that cost nothing in terms of top prospects at the moment. The teams needs before the deadline were a starting OF/DH and a starting 2B. The Mariners got role players and lost their best bullpen arm.

If Jerry had made the team better in the off-season then 100% I and any GM who wants to win would’ve traded the top 2 prospects for Soto. With how bad the Mariners offense was in the first half, add Soto to the team and they would’ve firmly been in control of at least a wildcard spot. I understand the he is going to hit free agency, but that is a loser mentality and why teams that have that philosophy don’t win championships. You can say the Padres suck with Soto but then that makes your defense of Jerry even worse. A. The Padres with Soto have had a lot more success than Jerry ever has. B. Then in your theory Jerry hasn’t done a good job of building a team if a star like Soto couldn’t put them over the top. Everyone is gave Preller praise for making the deal, even though he gave up to much, but he has been criticized for this season.

1000% disagree with you. Robbie Ray wasn’t devastating or remotely a bad deal. I would massively argue that him trading Chris Taylor was much worse, his Marco trade was much worse. In hindsight I think the Ketel Marte trade was worse. You could argue it led to JP Crawford but the Mariners could have gotten JP without the Ketel Marte for Haniger trade. You definitely can say what if Lewis or White stayed healthy, but reality is they didn’t and he didn’t correct those injuries. I give him an F for his first attempt to replace Lewis with Winker and a B (though it has been a failure) Teoscar. He hasn’t even attempted to replace White’s spot and he failed epically trying to find a replacement for Cano.

The Julio move is irrelevant and a dishonest Jerry talking point. Julio and Castillo are guys who were going to be a Mariners regardless so it isn’t franchise changing. Franchise changing would’ve been getting Semien or Seager or Turner. A real offensive free agent so it would signal to agents and players around the league that it is ok to come sign with the Mariners. It was the exact same thing as how the Seahawks became an ok destination for players to come after Lawyer Malloy.

I can see our disconnect on this one on two fronts, you want to defend Jerry because it appears you think Seattle 3/4th into a rebuild. Mine (and all of the fans that were pissed at his performance) is they are no longer in a rebuild. They graduated 3 top 100 position playing prospects along with having 2 top 10 and 4 top 20 pitchers in baseball. Jerry told us that they would be a World Series contender this year. He built the team to where they needed one star or two average position starters to be a World Series contender and in our opinion did nothing to make that promise come true. Then our second disconnect is you feel his moves are for sustained success. Mine is not. He idiotically put a window on this core. He told us 2026 is the end of window. Which means he cannot keep Kirby and Gilbert. And will have choices between Kelenic, Raleigh and JP. France may be in there too but I don’t think he fits into a 2027 roster. The GM I wish the Mariners had, would not to punt on this year like he has. Because a championship run depends solely on faith A-Z happens, I’d list all of them but I’ve written a novel, instead of A or B needs to happen for them not to be a World Series contender.

Yea we are definitely on opposite ends of the spectrum. You must have some insight in the conversations around the league that none of us have. I dont know what OF/DH that we could have acquired at no cost of prospects that Jerry didnt want to make. The Mariners have factually won more games than the Padres since acquiring Soto in 2022. I am super convinced that giving these star players these mega contracts does not translate to wins and is not worth the price tag. You can also save for what I am about to say and I will preach this. When Ohtani becomes a free agent and some team gives him that 450 million 13 year price tag I bet you they won't win.

I am not saying all Jerries trades were home runs yes he definitely lost on that Zach Lee and Taylor trade he even went on record saying he wish he could have that back. The Ketel Marte trade he really only had one great 2019 season and Haniger had is one great 2021 season but yes they edged us out. Tyler Oneill only had one great 2021 season but other than that nobody is buying his jersey and they are in last place. Marco has been a consistent starter from 2018-2022 while we drafted and developed Kirby and Gilbert so we definitely won that trade and was the correct move. White got injured and we traded for Ty France for nothing and he became an all star player in 2022 and also acquired Andres Munoz in that deal we have to give credit for Jerry for that.

Lastly what is Jerry supposed to say? "by 2023 we will have a team that can compete for a wild card?" Fans are not trying to hear that. we have cap space because we didn't make wild moves like pay one player 400 million and by 2026 Cole Young and Harry Ford will be ready to make their league appearances if not already so if we need to move on from JP and Raleigh we are flexible.

I am looking at teams like the Padres, Yankees, and Mets that have these star players paying wild amounts of money all wishing they can get rid of to make their cap situation healthier. Then I am seeing teams like Baltimore, Milwaukee and Tampa win games without star players because they are making high quality trades and decisions.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I'm not into kissing oatani backside..
Neither do I think.the mariners need him.
If you need him as a fan..
Move to L A..

He's a piece that can put you over the top. Fans don't want him just to cheer, they want him cause we as fans want to win a World Series.

 

[seattlefan75]

He's a piece that can put you over the top. Fans don't want him just to cheer, they want him cause we as fans want to win a World Series.

To me baseball is just a weird sport sometimes. If someone would have said back when Ohtani wanted to come play in the states that he would become a legendary lifetime player, everyone would think that man if you pair him up with Mike Trout who is an all time generational talent as well that they would dominate. fast forward they can't make the playoffs and in some cases fall below .500.

I have been a big believer that signing expensive players to massive contracts isnt worth the risk. If you can try to develop your own through the draft or acquire players through trade while they are young and develop and spend your cap space to keep them on your team.

 

[ulmax]

Yea we are definitely on opposite ends of the spectrum. You must have some insight in the conversations around the league that none of us have. I dont know what OF/DH that we could have acquired at no cost of prospects that Jerry didnt want to make. The Mariners have factually won more games than the Padres since acquiring Soto in 2022. I am super convinced that giving these star players these mega contracts does not translate to wins and is not worth the price tag. You can also save for what I am about to say and I will preach this. When Ohtani becomes a free agent and some team gives him that 450 million 13 year price tag I bet you they won't win.

I am not saying all Jerries trades were home runs yes he definitely lost on that Zach Lee and Taylor trade he even went on record saying he wish he could have that back. The Ketel Marte trade he really only had one great 2019 season and Haniger had is one great 2021 season but yes they edged us out. Tyler Oneill only had one great 2021 season but other than that nobody is buying his jersey and they are in last place. Marco has been a consistent starter from 2018-2022 while we drafted and developed Kirby and Gilbert so we definitely won that trade and was the correct move. White got injured and we traded for Ty France for nothing and he became an all star player in 2022 and also acquired Andres Munoz in that deal we have to give credit for Jerry for that.

Lastly what is Jerry supposed to say? "by 2023 we will have a team that can compete for a wild card?" Fans are not trying to hear that. we have cap space because we didn't make wild moves like pay one player 400 million and by 2026 Cole Young and Harry Ford will be ready to make their league appearances if not already so if we need to move on from JP and Raleigh we are flexible.

I am looking at teams like the Padres, Yankees, and Mets that have these star players paying wild amounts of money all wishing they can get rid of to make their cap situation healthier. Then I am seeing teams like Baltimore, Milwaukee and Tampa win games without star players because they are making high quality trades and decisions.

A Juan soto trade could help the mariners still...
But the rest I agree with Seattle fan..
On..
Think of.
.Juan soto..dh/rf
Julio.
Kelinec..
Canzone..dh/rf.

But for..not .young..or.ford..

For
Colt emmerson..plus..

Young and Ford should never be 9n the table to anyone...
And I would make the emmerson trade before..I regretted it...

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

To me baseball is just a weird sport sometimes. If someone would have said back when Ohtani wanted to come play in the states that he would become a legendary lifetime player, everyone would think that man if you pair him up with Mike Trout who is an all time generational talent as well that they would dominate. fast forward they can't make the playoffs and in some cases fall below .500.

I have been a big believer that signing expensive players to massive contracts isnt worth the risk. If you can try to develop your own through the draft or acquire players through trade while they are young and develop and spend your cap space to keep them on your team.

The Angles case is they haven't developed any young core players. Having Trout/Ohtani is nice but their player development has lacked both on the field, lineup and pitching rotation. Buying at the deadline was the worst decision as they could have reloaded the farm with an Ohtani trade. Seattle has developed a good young core of players in the lineup/pitching rotation so adding a guy like Ohtani who's probably a generational type player is worth the risk to compete for a WS. I'm not about signing high priced players just to sign them unless it makes sense and adding Ohtani's bat to the line up/pitching rotation does make sense.