For those who think Trout over miggy

[MilkSpiller22]

Even if Miggy's offense was better than Pujols from 01-10 (they aren't), it sure as fuck doesn't make up for the huge gap in defense and baserunning.

Just wondering... is their a statistic that takes into baserunning errors like fielders choice outs where it was the runners fault he got out... Or when a batter hits into a double play, if it was the runners fault for being too slow, or made some kind of silly baserunning mistake...

Not talking about the player at bat, but the players on base...

 

[Cleaves2000]

When'd you start watching baseball, 2009?

Around the late 70's....

I think miggy is better than the big hurt and even with pujols now....

 

[Cleaves2000]

They're bringing a lot more to the table than you are. You're just acting like a petulant child.

Your opinion...but when i stated facts and numbers it didnt matter, the trout groupies had an issue with that also...

Just posting REAL facts...miggy IS the MVP....

oh man i guess i trolled again

 

[Cleaves2000]

No, I'm not. I think it's absurd to blame the best player on a team for that team not succeeding. When Prince and Miggy struggled in the playoffs (I wanted to multi-quote, but it hasn't been working for me for some reason), they were blamed for the Tigers' elimination, but that should not have been the case. Baseball is hard. Streaks happen for one reason or another regardless of talent. Luck plays a major role. The failures belong to the less players who made the top players carry the team and didn't step up to pick up those best players when things weren't going their way.

If you do the most to help your team win, you do the least to make them lose.

You know how many times prince came up with men on? And failed? And im a big prince supporter....i agree about playoffs and streaks....said it all year the best teams usually dont win it all...the hot team does.

 

[Darkstone42]

Just wondering... is their a statistic that takes into baserunning errors like fielders choice outs where it was the runners fault he got out... Or when a batter hits into a double play, if it was the runners fault for being too slow, or made some kind of silly baserunning mistake...

Not talking about the player at bat, but the players on base...

I can't imagine that scenario ever being the case, but I can see doubling off because on a line drive the runner left the base.

There may be some "outs generated" numbers for baserunning blunders out there, but they're difficult to quantify. For example, just from scoring, if a runner is stealing, and the batter lines out, it's not really the runner's fault he got doubled off, but it is scored the same way as if he was.

Perhaps incorporating a baserunning error stat (if it doesn't already exist) would help make baserunning metrics better.

Oh, and back to the groundout double play thing, perhaps something could be said for baserunners who stay out of double plays they grounded into by hustling down the line to first. That saves one out and adds one baserunner to otherwise double-play opportunities. The problem is, in scoring, the double play cannot be assumed, so you run into that difficulty.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Around the late 70's....

I think miggy is better than the big hurt and even with pujols now....

Reason being?

 

[Darkstone42]

Your opinion...but when i stated facts and numbers it didnt matter, the trout groupies had an issue with that also...

Just posting REAL facts...miggy IS the MVP....

oh man i guess i trolled again

I think "spamming" is a more accurate term for what you're doing, actually, but spamming could be considered a flavor of trolling.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Originally Posted by element1286 View Post
Using advanced stats Trout was head and shoulders better both years.

Trout played 952 innings at CF and 356 in LF, wouldn't call him a LF. And range is the most important part of playing defense, if an OF can get to a ball easily he is going to catch it.

How about this -- Mike Trout can win the Hypothetical MVP, Cabrera wins the MVP for the numbers he actually produced, not those made up by some math geeks. There, now everyone is happy.

Quit making sense, please. It frustrates and confuses these Tiger fans. Trust me when I say that 90 percent of baseball fans agree with you.

Hmmmmmmm -- I guess the people voting for the MVP missed the boat on this one. Two years in a row, Cabrera has won in a landslide and rightfully so.

Did I mention Cabrera had the same amount of OF assists as Trout? Try and top that!!!!

 

[Darkstone42]

How about this -- Mike Trout can win the Hypothetical MVP, Cabrera wins the MVP for the numbers he actually produced, not those made up by some math geeks. There, now everyone is happy.



Hmmmmmmm -- I guess the people voting for the MVP missed the boat on this one. Two years in a row, Cabrera has won in a landslide and rightfully so.

Did I mention Cabrera had the same amount of OF assists as Trout? Try and top that!!!!

Two points:

1. Advanced metrics do deal with what actually happened, removing context and sequencing (which are largely out of the player's control) to produce real numbers which can be more effectively used to project future performance.
2. Why do you keep bringing up outfield assists? They're largely so rare that they barely factor into fielding value.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Reason being?

My opinion....i live in chicago and seen thomas play alot....i just think miggy is better...its called an OPINION.

I dont pick and choose stats...i like the eye test..


Also you called me a troll for not responding to your post.....but yet you said i talk college hoops with bums and i have never talked anything but baseball with bums. Dont even know his college team....but you didnt respond back to me.....so what makes you so special that i must respond to being wrong but you dont? So are you trolling? You just moved on

 

[Cleaves2000]

I think "spamming" is a more accurate term for what you're doing, actually, but spamming could be considered a flavor of trolling.

Spamming?

Please explain....

Its a thread about miggy

Miggy won

Im just telling the truth

 

[Cleaves2000]

Spamming is unsolicitated bulk messages


Nice try

 

[MilkSpiller22]

No, I'm not. I think it's absurd to blame the best player on a team for that team not succeeding. When Prince and Miggy struggled in the playoffs (I wanted to multi-quote, but it hasn't been working for me for some reason), they were blamed for the Tigers' elimination, but that should not have been the case. Baseball is hard. Streaks happen for one reason or another regardless of talent. Luck plays a major role. The failures belong to the less players who made the top players carry the team and didn't step up to pick up those best players when things weren't going their way.

If you do the most to help your team win, you do the least to make them lose.

Again, you missed my point... But when a team loses usually their best player could have done something more... There are players that can carry a team by themselves... If you are a great player, then once again, you are the player that the team looks up to and counts on... if you fail when it matters then you did not do your job... Thats why i am saying that the best player is the most responsible player for their teams success and failures...

Not sure why you are arguing with this... i am not saying that the best player takes all the responsibility... and it sounds like you are claiming that it is not the best players fault for a teams failures...

It is not even like i consider making the playoffs a huge factor, it is only 3 percent...

 

[Cleaves2000]

How about this -- Mike Trout can win the Hypothetical MVP, Cabrera wins the MVP for the numbers he actually produced, not those made up by some math geeks. There, now everyone is happy.



Hmmmmmmm -- I guess the people voting for the MVP missed the boat on this one. Two years in a row, Cabrera has won in a landslide and rightfully so.

Did I mention Cabrera had the same amount of OF assists as Trout? Try and top that!!!!

Stop it mikeD....they will say your trolling

 

[Cleaves2000]

Two points:

1. Advanced metrics do deal with what actually happened, removing context and sequencing (which are largely out of the player's control) to produce real numbers which can be more effectively used to project future performance.
2. Why do you keep bringing up outfield assists? They're largely so rare that they barely factor into fielding value.

When did nerds take over baseball? Its a sport....

 

[navamind]

When did nerds take over baseball? Its a sport....

Zack Greinke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://twitter.com/BMcCarthy32

Glen Perkins: The sabermetrics-friendly All-Star closer - CBSSports.com

Y! SPORTS

Craig Breslow Relies on Sabermetrics to Maintain Poise on the Mound, Overcome Adversity | Yardbarker.com

Bunch of geeks.

 

[StanMarsh51]

My opinion....i live in chicago and seen thomas play alot....i just think miggy is better...its called an OPINION.

I dont pick and choose stats...i like the eye test..


Also you called me a troll for not responding to your post.....but yet you said i talk college hoops with bums and i have never talked anything but baseball with bums. Dont even know his college team....but you didnt respond back to me.....so what makes you so special that i must respond to being wrong but you dont? So are you trolling? You just moved on

The eye test which tends to be homer based by fans when it comes to players they like on their favorite teams....I'll take the numbers which record what happened over what someone remembered happening.

Should've said college football instead of college basketball. My mistake (you can tell I could care less about college sports and kids screaming OOOOOOOOOOO the entire game).

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Two points:

1. Advanced metrics do deal with what actually happened, removing context and sequencing (which are largely out of the player's control) to produce real numbers which can be more effectively used to project future performance.
2. Why do you keep bringing up outfield assists? They're largely so rare that they barely factor into fielding value.

no they dont... Runs RBIs are not included at all... and these stats are the players true production stats... I like the advanced stats as much as the next guy, and i use them for my evaluations... But i dont understand why you advanced stats people dismiss "team" stats...

 

[navamind]

The eye test which tends to be homer based by fans when it comes to players they like on their favorite teams....I'll take the numbers which record what happened over what someone remembered happening.

Should've said college football instead of college basketball. My mistake (you can tell I could care less about college sports and kids screaming OOOOOOOOOOO the entire game).

Jon Lester's better than Justin Verlander. I've watched them both play and you can't convince me otherwise.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Zack Greinke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://twitter.com/BMcCarthy32

Glen Perkins: The sabermetrics-friendly All-Star closer - CBSSports.com

Y! SPORTS

Bunch of geeks.

Sorry i dont read wiki or bleacher report...i dont have twitter.....then i see they have an article on perkins for being a fan of sabermetrics.....that must mean hes one of only a few if they are doing a story about it....but yup nerds