Everyone needs to chill and get off Kap's back

[Pattersonca65]

I will continue to stay off of Kap's nuts until the end of the season. I didn't get to see the game so not much to comment on but this: There will be changes after this season after seeing the comment by York about the game. One thing that might stop this is if the 9ers win out and somehow make a deep playoff run. I will wait and see and make my comments about player/coaching changes after the season ends. On to to the next game.

I would like to see a change in the OC and wide receivers coach. Those changes can come at the end of the season. I don't think someone stepping in at this point of the season can do much. It has to start in the offseason and through training camp.

 

[AU_Fever]

I agree Kap is fine. he had a very bad game it happens. Most blame should be on Roman and how he can't make adjustments. Also he doesn't put our players in the best position to win a game anymore. I have no idea what he is doing.

Cosell: Kap 'remains predominantly a predetermined thrower' | CSN Bay Area

Purguy, here's a good read about Kap. Enjoy!

 

[purguy12]

Cosell: Kap 'remains predominantly a predetermined thrower' | CSN Bay Area

Purguy, here's a good read about Kap. Enjoy!

I think Kap is fine but I do think they are putting too much on his plate plus Roman/harbaugh took away him running. I do think he still needs to to work on the soft throws and I feel he takes too many chances.

I put most of my blame on Roman, then Harbaugh , then injuries and then Kap.

 

[AU_Fever]

I think most defenses are taking away Kap's strength which is running ability/athletic ability. They are forcing him to beat them with his weakness which is to throw in the pocket and go through his progressions. The OL has certainly not helped Kap's cause with its inability to run block or pass block on a more consistent basis. Kap's future success hinges upon his ability to throw in the pocket and not lock on one receiver.

 

[NinerSickness]

Kaepernick will never fix his mental deficiencies. He is what he's always going to be.

"You can't fix stupid."

-Jimmy Johnson

 

[jarrod49]

I think most defenses are taking away Kap's strength which is running ability/athletic ability. They are forcing him to beat them with his weakness which is to throw in the pocket and go through his progressions. The OL has certainly not helped Kap's cause with its inability to run block or pass block on a more consistent basis. Kap's future success hinges upon his ability to throw in the pocket and not lock on one receiver.

That's just it, it isn't the defense that is taking these things away from Kaep its our coaching staff. Seattle is allowing Wilson to be Wilson not forcing him to stay in the pocket, they have designed run plays for him, when was the last time we saw a designed run play solely for keep?????

I put this solely on the coaching staff. Kap has his faults and has made horrible throws at times, but who is in charge of kap and who calls the plays???? Put the guy in a situation that he can handle not one that he isn't equipped for.

 

[AU_Fever]

That's just it, it isn't the defense that is taking these things away from Kaep its our coaching staff. Seattle is allowing Wilson to be Wilson not forcing him to stay in the pocket, they have designed run plays for him, when was the last time we saw a designed run play solely for keep?????

I put this solely on the coaching staff. Kap has his faults and has made horrible throws at times, but who is in charge of kap and who calls the plays???? Put the guy in a situation that he can handle not one that he isn't equipped for.

There were some plays where the receivers were open and Kap just made inaccurate throws. The two most accurate throws he made against the Seahawks were to Sherman. The coaching staff could design more rollout plays for Kap, but eventually he needs to improve his pocket presence. If his first read is covered, he panics and starts rolling out with his eyes down. The difference between Wilson and Kap is that Wilson is quicker, more elusive and throws more accurately on the run.

 

[deep9er]

There were some plays where the receivers were open and Kap just made inaccurate throws. The two most accurate throws he made against the Seahawks were to Sherman. The coaching staff could design more rollout plays for Kap, but eventually he needs to improve his pocket presence. If his first read is covered, he panics and starts rolling out with his eyes down. The difference between Wilson and Kap is that Wilson is quicker, more elusive and throws more accurately on the run.

agree.

you can design and call any play you want, but is your Unit likely or unlikely to execute it? it starts with Kaep so can he execute out of roll-outs? he may but will it be consistent? I'd say not enough because the basic issue remains no matter in or out of the pocket.......his 'pocket presence', his ability to see the field, his progression reads, or whatever you want to call it.

this doesn't mean they should never roll him out, but that alone doesn't solve the problem.

the difference is Wilson can make a play at any time, even when it has broken down. Kaep CAN buy time but he isn't as dangerous with it.

 

[AU_Fever]

Here is an interesting article about Kap.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nfl-world-starting-turn-colin-221424603.html

When Kap scrambles, he seldom looks downfield. Wilson on the other hand is quicker and keeps his eyes focus downfield. Wilson is more elusive than Kap. Also Kap takes way too many sacks. I've seen a number of times where he could have thrown the ball out of bounds instead of taking a loss. It's better to be 2nd and 10 versus 2nd and 15. He has had over 40 starts and I have not seen any improvement on his pocket presence and reads.

 

[purguy12]

I think the staff isn't putting these guys in the right position to succeed. Look at what Wilson and the offense he runs. That is what we should be doing. Get Kap out of the pocket more.

 

[optimist4720]

Kap is just fine given his tenure in the league. Heck he is equivalent stat wise to ASmith who is still developing 9 years in the league. You guys have no patience. Is he getting better?? Yes..better at getting more arc on his long throws. Better at reading his progressions..just not good enough against the best teams in the league. We lost to Denver, Seattle, Arizona, Chicago, and St. Louis. We only got beat by Denver and Seattle and the Seattle game was not a blowout (although ugly as sin). Our offense has not been in sync the whole year. This year we haven't been using hot reads, draws, screens, throws to the HB?FB, and not many 3 wr sets, or our TE(injury related). Sorry , that alone is on the coaches. I don't know that Kap can be a good short thrower, but I don't see where he checks down to the HB coming out of the backfield at all and in fact the HB is rarely even utilized in this manner as it should be. zjust because we traded Smith doesn't mean we go away from the check down. In fact, you have to make opposing defenses cover both especially with a mobile QB.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Here is an interesting article about Kap.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nfl-world-starting-turn-colin-221424603.html

When Kap scrambles, he seldom looks downfield. Wilson on the other hand is quicker and keeps his eyes focus downfield. Wilson is more elusive than Kap. Also Kap takes way too many sacks. I've seen a number of times where he could have thrown the ball out of bounds instead of taking a loss. It's better to be 2nd and 10 versus 2nd and 15. He has had over 40 starts and I have not seen any improvement on his pocket presence and reads.

This I definately agree with and we haven't mentioned. Kaepernick does take too many sacks and needs to get rid of the ball when there is nothing there. Neither Kaepermick nor Wilson are good pocket passers or good at reads and progressions and Cosell was talking about both of them the other day. You could tell he really doesn't care for either of them.

 

[deep9er]

I think the staff isn't putting these guys in the right position to succeed. Look at what Wilson and the offense he runs. That is what we should be doing. Get Kap out of the pocket more.

it isn't the plays or scheme that make Wilson better on scrambles. Wilson has better awareness, more intangibles to make something out of it.

Kaep's weaknesses will remain whether in or out of the pocket. He isn't good out of the pocket either, not consistently good that is.

So what is the right position for Kaep to succeed? what does he do well?

 

[deep9er]

Kap is just fine given his tenure in the league. Heck he is equivalent stat wise to ASmith who is still developing 9 years in the league. You guys have no patience. Is he getting better?? Yes..better at getting more arc on his long throws. Better at reading his progressions..just not good enough against the best teams in the league. We lost to Denver, Seattle, Arizona, Chicago, and St. Louis. We only got beat by Denver and Seattle and the Seattle game was not a blowout (although ugly as sin). Our offense has not been in sync the whole year. This year we haven't been using hot reads, draws, screens, throws to the HB?FB, and not many 3 wr sets, or our TE(injury related). Sorry , that alone is on the coaches. I don't know that Kap can be a good short thrower, but I don't see where he checks down to the HB coming out of the backfield at all and in fact the HB is rarely even utilized in this manner as it should be. zjust because we traded Smith doesn't mean we go away from the check down. In fact, you have to make opposing defenses cover both especially with a mobile QB.

but your reference point is Alex Smith??!! if Kaep is doing the same as Alex Smith, then it is ok?

Kaep has played in a lot of games since 2012, what he should be showing now is improvement. Has he shown improvement? Most will say he has regressed but even at best, one could only argue he is the same.

For me, NO he doesn't need to be the best NFL QB, but where is the improvement?

 

[purguy12]

it isn't the plays or scheme that make Wilson better on scrambles. Wilson has better awareness, more intangibles to make something out of it.

Kaep's weaknesses will remain whether in or out of the pocket. He isn't good out of the pocket either, not consistently good that is.

So what is the right position for Kaep to succeed? what does he do well?

The offense we ran the last 2 years. Stop making him a pocket passer and QB throwing the ball all over the place. This offense is way different then the last 2 years. Thats a fact.

 

[AU_Fever]

The offense we ran the last 2 years. Stop making him a pocket passer and QB throwing the ball all over the place. This offense is way different then the last 2 years. Thats a fact.

Eventually, Kap needs to learn to be more patient in the pocket. He panics on the first sign of a pass rush. He starts rolling out with his head down and he either takes a sack or throws it incomplete. He doesn't need to be in the pocket all the time, but needs to allow his receivers to run their routes. You can't expect him to run for 50 or more yards per game. The defense has caught up with Kap and has forced him to win the game in the pocket. Unfortunately for the Niners, that is Kap's weakness and he has NOT shown any improvement this year. It's pathetic when he can't even throw for 150 yards against the Seahawks. The only reason he threw for over 100 yards was due to the last drive, which as garbage time. At the present Wilson is a better QB than Kap. Kap is more athletic, but Wilson is more mature, a lot more accurate and definitely has better pocket awareness.

 

[purguy12]

Eventually, Kap needs to learn to be more patient in the pocket. He panics on the first sign of a pass rush. He starts rolling out with his head down and he either takes a sack or throws it incomplete. He doesn't need to be in the pocket all the time, but needs to allow his receivers to run their routes. You can't expect him to run for 50 or more yards per game. The defense has caught up with Kap and has forced him to win the game in the pocket. Unfortunately for the Niners, that is Kap's weakness and he has NOT shown any improvement this year. It's pathetic when he can't even throw for 150 yards against the Seahawks. The only reason he threw for over 100 yards was due to the last drive, which as garbage time. At the present Wilson is a better QB than Kap. Kap is more athletic, but Wilson is more mature, a lot more accurate and definitely has better pocket awareness.

Wilson is better but not by much. I just think Wilson understands the offense better then Kap. Plus Seattle's OC puts him in the best situation to win. Wilson is what he is a good game manger who knows how to make some plays on the run. He isn't a great pocket passer and arm strength isn't great but he knows not to force throws. He takes what the D gives. That is what he does well. Think about if we had that D that seattle had last year we would have 2 championships already with Kap. Kap has been very good in the playoffs. D has let them down.

 

[optimist4720]

"but your reference point is Alex Smith??!! if Kaep is doing the same as Alex Smith, then it is ok?

Kaep has played in a lot of games since 2012, what he should be showing now is improvement. Has he shown improvement? Most will say he has regressed but even at best, one could only argue he is the same.

For me, NO he doesn't need to be the best NFL QB, but where is the improvement?


First off, Alex Smith took a lot of heat from me as "not being the answer" and not having the athletic skill set needed to be a perennial championship caliber QB. That view has not changed all that much with me. Alex however limited was decent as a game manager QB and his success in KC shows he knows how to lead and win...ie he has been successful for KC. Kap has equaled Asmith level in his 2nd year and now in his 3rd is stat wise not all that bad and certainly as good as any of the QBs in the league with similar experience. Is he as good as he needed to be to win the big one..NO certainly not but he has been close. So close in fact that he has almost been to 2 SBs in 3 years. The losses in the SB was on the D who didn't show up in the game until the 1nd half after the lights went out. Against Seattle the D didn't come out in the 3rd qtr and Kap almost won that game with a remarkable comeback. Just thru to the wrong guy on that play against their strongest defender. Point is it was very very close against the team who turned out to be the best in the league. This year stat wise Kap is just fine but up and down and the O has not scored enough in the RED Zone yet again. WE don't do certain things well...like screen,draw and throw short and take what the D gives us setting up the deep throw. In some ways we are the antithesis of the ASmith team. We don't check down, we don't hot read blitzes, we don't read option much, we don't slant, we don't run crosses, we don't run around end, we don't throw to our RBs , we don't do the things that make the D cover the field both long and short. Kap always is looking for the big play and isnt checking down then throwing long...so there is no change up..all fast balls...and that is a structural in game planning. Kap dosnt work on throwing soft(it takes work ). His speed is slow twitch not fast twitch so his scrambles and sacks suffer( he takes slow 1st steps and takes time to get up to speed) and that is why RWilson is a better scrambler. Wilson is quick twitch small steps and gets up to speed faster and is elusive due to his smaller stature. Only question on Kap is his learning curve on learning the soft nuances of the position. He grew up learning to throw hard fastballs and never developed the soft change up much like a pitcher who throws a 95mph fastball but cant mix up the speeds to keep hitters off balance. Defenses are like batters and need to be kept off balance. The reason you run draw and short throws to Rbs is to make them cover both deep and short. Now it can be debated that we don't have a deep threat speed wise and hence the reason Im all for a 6'5 speed receiver or a Josh Gordon type burner but just a better play selection and ball movement between long and short will change things up substantially. ie If you have a good change up your fast ball looks all the more lively. ie You get interceptions if you throw at Sherman on down and outs but if you make him run across the field and cover you on a slant or cross he is more vulnerable even in zone cover 3 coverage. Ie ( overload zone and make him run with you both long and short). tire his ass out.

 

[Pattersonca65]

"but your reference point is Alex Smith??!! if Kaep is doing the same as Alex Smith, then it is ok?

Kaep has played in a lot of games since 2012, what he should be showing now is improvement. Has he shown improvement? Most will say he has regressed but even at best, one could only argue he is the same.

For me, NO he doesn't need to be the best NFL QB, but where is the improvement?


First off, Alex Smith took a lot of heat from me as "not being the answer" and not having the athletic skill set needed to be a perennial championship caliber QB. That view has not changed all that much with me. Alex however limited was decent as a game manager QB and his success in KC shows he knows how to lead and win...ie he has been successful for KC. Kap has equaled Asmith level in his 2nd year and now in his 3rd is stat wise not all that bad and certainly as good as any of the QBs in the league with similar experience. Is he as good as he needed to be to win the big one..NO certainly not but he has been close. So close in fact that he has almost been to 2 SBs in 3 years. The losses in the SB was on the D who didn't show up in the game until the 1nd half after the lights went out. Against Seattle the D didn't come out in the 3rd qtr and Kap almost won that game with a remarkable comeback. Just thru to the wrong guy on that play against their strongest defender. Point is it was very very close against the team who turned out to be the best in the league. This year stat wise Kap is just fine but up and down and the O has not scored enough in the RED Zone yet again. WE don't do certain things well...like screen,draw and throw short and take what the D gives us setting up the deep throw. In some ways we are the antithesis of the ASmith team. We don't check down, we don't hot read blitzes, we don't read option much, we don't slant, we don't run crosses, we don't run around end, we don't throw to our RBs , we don't do the things that make the D cover the field both long and short. Kap always is looking for the big play and isnt checking down then throwing long...so there is no change up..all fast balls...and that is a structural in game planning. Kap dosnt work on throwing soft(it takes work ). His speed is slow twitch not fast twitch so his scrambles and sacks suffer( he takes slow 1st steps and takes time to get up to speed) and that is why RWilson is a better scrambler. Wilson is quick twitch small steps and gets up to speed faster and is elusive due to his smaller stature. Only question on Kap is his learning curve on learning the soft nuances of the position. He grew up learning to throw hard fastballs and never developed the soft change up much like a pitcher who throws a 95mph fastball but cant mix up the speeds to keep hitters off balance. Defenses are like batters and need to be kept off balance. The reason you run draw and short throws to Rbs is to make them cover both deep and short. Now it can be debated that we don't have a deep threat speed wise and hence the reason Im all for a 6'5 speed receiver or a Josh Gordon type burner but just a better play selection and ball movement between long and short will change things up substantially. ie If you have a good change up your fast ball looks all the more lively. ie You get interceptions if you throw at Sherman on down and outs but if you make him run across the field and cover you on a slant or cross he is more vulnerable even in zone cover 3 coverage. Ie ( overload zone and make him run with you both long and short). tire his ass out.

I would agree with this. We don't have a good short game, The downfield game has really suffered this year. Vernon Davis was the real deep threat. He just isn't the same this year. And Randy Moss was at least a good decoy that teams had to account for. The receivers are good, but they are all possession type receivers. Chris Sims said in an interview that D Coordinators don't lose sleep at night game planning for this group. As far as the short game, don't know how much of it is a Kaepernick or the coaching staff. One thing for sure, this coaching staff has never been committed to the RB screens, and I wish they would.

 

[optimist4720]

Looks like we are making some adjustments to throw to RB and of course its working...TD 49ers throwing to yes you guessed it #49. Boldin on Running play? ok.. need to throw swing pass to Hyde/Gore/Miller like 10 times a game. Establishes pass to RB has to be covered...establishes rhythm, momentum, quick developing no sacks...just have to have a bit of touch on the pass.