Everyone needs to chill and get off Kap's back

[FourBeeDen]

Greg Cosell on 49ers collapse - Niners Nation

I found this reading interesting. An analogy is made "when the QB plays poorly, it's like starting pitching in baseball. When you're down 6 - 0 every night after the 4th inning, it makes your team look bad." He mentions what we already know the Kap does NOT have very good vision in the pocket thus not allowing him to make good decisions consistently.

Interesting read especially this section of the article... A lot has been said of the play calling but this might shed some light to it...

"...But let me give you an example - the first play of the game he threw an interception. That play is a microcosm of what's wrong. The play was called to get him an easy completion in the flat to Miller. That's why the play was called. I'm not going to describe the entire play to you. Take my word for it, I've seen a lot of football as you guys know. And Kaepernick seemed to have no sense of the play. He waited in the pocket for something that was really not part of the play. It was designed to throw it to Miller in the flat, gain six yards, boom - you're 2nd and 4. He doesn't do that; then he starts running around, and he tries to make a random play and it results in an interception.

Now that has nothing to do with anything other than Kaepernick. It was the first play of the game; they were trying to help him. The play was there. You throw it to Miller and you get six yards, maybe eight yards. I can't tell you why he didn't throw it. Only he can tell you why he didn't throw it..."

 

[deep9er]

I agree but its also because Seattle OC puts them in the best position to win and succeed. Why did they change their offense this year when the last 3 years was working fine. Why go to a pass happy offense. Last 3 years we were ranked in the top 3 in running this year I think we are 12-14 range. Running opens up the pass.

BTW - Wilson is most dangerous when he buys time, because he'll make a play - sometimes BIG - out of it. He isn't dangerous just handing the ball off, or throwing from the pocket. Why is he able to make more out of those broken plays?

Cause Wilson himself has more intangibles, he has more awareness of the field. On these broken plays it isn't the Seattle OC who puts him in the best position.

 

[deep9er]

Interesting read especially this section of the article... A lot has been said of the play calling but this might shed some light to it...

"...But let me give you an example - the first play of the game he threw an interception. That play is a microcosm of what's wrong. The play was called to get him an easy completion in the flat to Miller. That's why the play was called. I'm not going to describe the entire play to you. Take my word for it, I've seen a lot of football as you guys know. And Kaepernick seemed to have no sense of the play. He waited in the pocket for something that was really not part of the play. It was designed to throw it to Miller in the flat, gain six yards, boom - you're 2nd and 4. He doesn't do that; then he starts running around, and he tries to make a random play and it results in an interception.

Now that has nothing to do with anything other than Kaepernick. It was the first play of the game; they were trying to help him. The play was there. You throw it to Miller and you get six yards, maybe eight yards. I can't tell you why he didn't throw it. Only he can tell you why he didn't throw it..."

yes, very interesting and what we can see this season game over game. Last year we could say he hasn't had enough snaps to REALLY get comfortable. So we were still hoping he'd take the next step THIS season? But after 13 more games, it is now manifesting itself.

At this point I ALMOST want to tell Kaep, go ahead with 'set and throw'. Don't even try to make progression reads, just set and throw. If the one read isn't there, check it down or run, don't worry about the 2nd read or look downfield. Tough way to operate an offense I know, but 4 or 5 yards beats an incomplete.

 

[purguy12]

That's why I think the Niners should draft a couple of OL. Iupati could be gone. Hopefully Thomas can start in his place. A. Davis has been injured a lot this year including concussions. Dallas finally figured it out that you need a great OL to compete. Three 1st round draft choices and Murray is having an MVP year and Romo has been protected majority of the time. Hopefully Boone will be in better shape and Kilgore comes back healthy. Niners need to say goodbye to J. Martin. He has been awful. M. Martin should be better with the experience he gained this year.

I have Murray as my MVP this year. Guy has been awesome. I hate giving credit to Dallas. Makes me throw up.

 

[purguy12]

BTW - Wilson is most dangerous when he buys time, because he'll make a play - sometimes BIG - out of it. He isn't dangerous just handing the ball off, or throwing from the pocket. Why is he able to make more out of those broken plays?

Cause Wilson himself has more intangibles, he has more awareness of the field. On these broken plays it isn't the Seattle OC who puts him in the best position.

Because Harbaugh and Roman put in Kaps head not to run so Kap forces the ball. Last 2 years Kap was great on broken plays. Something isn't right this year and put most blame on OC and harbaugh.

It is Seattles OC that does it. U know they run plays that look like broken plays so Wilson can get out of the pocket. I agree with you Wilson has better awareness on the field.

 

[Chamoanlad]

Look im not going to argue here and say Kap is playing great. He isn't. He is having a bad year. I think a lot of it has to do with Roman, Oline and making Kap a pocket passer when he isn't. Coaches have told him 100 times try not to run a lot when a play breaks down to save yourself for the playoffs.....well we need to make playoffs first. Kap needs to run more on broken plays instead of trying to force things.

I just wan a new OC. Before we say Kap is done and we need a new QB lets give the guy 1 more year to see if he bounces back. QBs have bad years. Flacco was bad the year after they won the superbowl. Rivers was bad for like 2 years before he bounced back. I think it has more to do with the Injuries and our OC.

Roman is part of the problem, but Kap is refusing to do some basic things. And yes he's refusing to do them. Just about every single game Kap takes sacks he doesn't need to if he just threw the ball away. The O Line hasn't been great, but it's not as bad as its made out to be either. Kap also refused to throw to the wide open swings or short plays that are there to be made like the linked article mentions on Kaps first pick in the Raiders game. There wasn't anything Kap was supposed to do except throw it short and instead he wants to do his own thing.

The line also looks horrible on runs, but they are almost always outmanned and that leaves free tacklers shooting through the line. I honestly think Roman and Harbaugh are holding back on things based on what they seem from Kap.

 

[purguy12]

Roman is part of the problem, but Kap is refusing to do some basic things. And yes he's refusing to do them. Just about every single game Kap takes sacks he doesn't need to if he just threw the ball away. The O Line hasn't been great, but it's not as bad as its made out to be either. Kap also refused to throw to the wide open swings or short plays that are there to be made like the linked article mentions on Kaps first pick in the Raiders game. There wasn't anything Kap was supposed to do except throw it short and instead he wants to do his own thing.

The line also looks horrible on runs, but they are almost always outmanned and that leaves free tacklers shooting through the line. I honestly think Roman and Harbaugh are holding back on things based on what they seem from Kap.

That is one thing that pisses me off about Kap. He goes for the home run way too much instead of checking it down. last week I saw Gore or Miller open like 2-3 times each. Would of gained like 5-10 years each play.

 

[FourBeeDen]

That is one thing that pisses me off about Kap. He goes for the home run way too much instead of checking it down. last week I saw Gore or Miller open like 2-3 times each. Would of gained like 5-10 years each play.

WOW!!! That would probably be the longest play ever lasting 5-10 YEARS

 

[deep9er]

(on Kaepernick's view of the game)

All I can speak to is what the film shows right now, and right now he doesn't have very good vision in the pocket. He's not seeing the field well, and therefore he's not making consistently good decisions. And that's what quarterbacking is. We know he's got a powerful arm and all those other things, but right now, he's not seeings things. And I've had this conversation with Ron Jaworski whom I work with very closely, and he just hast to work through that. You can try to help him with play calls, and they are by the way.


this is the last paragraph of that same article. Most of it is clear to us except Purguy, but I'm fine with Purguy sticking to his opinion. That positive opinion on Kaep, beats a constant negative one.

anyway, I posted this to point out the last sentence. It isn't as though Roman and Harbaugh can't see it, they know better than anybody else. They HAVE been trying to call plays that help Kaep, but in the end Kaep has to execute it.

 

[Chamoanlad]

(on Kaepernick's view of the game)

All I can speak to is what the film shows right now, and right now he doesn't have very good vision in the pocket. He's not seeing the field well, and therefore he's not making consistently good decisions. And that's what quarterbacking is. We know he's got a powerful arm and all those other things, but right now, he's not seeings things. And I've had this conversation with Ron Jaworski whom I work with very closely, and he just hast to work through that. You can try to help him with play calls, and they are by the way.


this is the last paragraph of that same article. Most of it is clear to us except Purguy, but I'm fine with Purguy sticking to his opinion. That positive opinion on Kaep, beats a constant negative one.

anyway, I posted this to point out the last sentence. It isn't as though Roman and Harbaugh can't see it, they know better than anybody else. They HAVE been trying to call plays that help Kaep, but in the end Kaep has to execute it.

I'd be really interested to hear how those film discussions go when Roman and Harbaugh question Kap on why he throws to where he does and why he's not running the called play.

I definitely think it's taking a toll on the team and you can see there's some frustration from the entire offense with Kap at times. The body language and faces of O lineman after another sack or the faces of WR's who are open and ignored or that Kap misfires on. If the offensive players are turning on Kap that would explain a lot of the things going wrong on O.

Now that I think about it, this year now that Kap is coming under fire and I can't remember reading or seeing things from players coming to his defense except for Harbaugh.

When Alex Smith was under siege before we always heard from Gore, or VD, or the O Line backing him up.

 

[AU_Fever]

yes, very interesting and what we can see this season game over game. Last year we could say he hasn't had enough snaps to REALLY get comfortable. So we were still hoping he'd take the next step THIS season? But after 13 more games, it is now manifesting itself.

At this point I ALMOST want to tell Kaep, go ahead with 'set and throw'. Don't even try to make progression reads, just set and throw. If the one read isn't there, check it down or run, don't worry about the 2nd read or look downfield. Tough way to operate an offense I know, but 4 or 5 yards beats an incomplete.

You take what the defense gives you. 3, 4, 5, or 6 yards at time, but if Kap completes two or three passes in a row, that gives him confidence. It gives the whole offense a lift. Just maybe, the corners will play a little tighter and Kap can hit the big play. But he just doesn't see the field well. I remember back in the days when Roger Craig would have 60 receptions or more in a season. Even Rathman and Rickt Waters were involved on pass plays. Now it's doesn't even exist.

 

[Pattersonca65]

You take what the defense gives you. 3, 4, 5, or 6 yards at time, but if Kap completes two or three passes in a row, that gives him confidence. It gives the whole offense a lift. Just maybe, the corners will play a little tighter and Kap can hit the big play. But he just doesn't see the field well. I remember back in the days when Roger Craig would have 60 receptions or more in a season. Even Rathman and Rickt Waters were involved on pass plays. Now it's doesn't even exist.

This offensive staff never committed to throwing to the RBs like those other teams did. True Smith checked down more to the RBs. But even going back to Smith, we rarely used RB screens

 

[MHSL82]

You take what the defense gives you. 3, 4, 5, or 6 yards at time, but if Kap completes two or three passes in a row, that gives him confidence. It gives the whole offense a lift. Just maybe, the corners will play a little tighter and Kap can hit the big play. But he just doesn't see the field well. I remember back in the days when Roger Craig would have 60 receptions or more in a season. Even Rathman and Rickt Waters were involved on pass plays. Now it's doesn't even exist.

I don't get why we don't just take with the defense gives us. With Kaepernick's arm, the defense gives us more than they gave Alex, and we were winning with Alex. So wouldn't that plus Kaepernick's arm and legs make us dynamic?

 

[FourBeeDen]

I don't get why we don't just take with the defense gives us. With Kaepernick's arm, the defense gives us more than they gave Alex, and we were winning with Alex. So wouldn't that plus Kaepernick's arm and legs make us dynamic?

There is no questioning the physical tools Kaep posseses but it's the intagible that is lacking. The mental part of his game is what's inconsistent

 

[GoreRush]

Colin Kaepernick is pretty much Jeremy Lin. The experiment is over and we need to move on.

 

[purguy12]

Colin Kaepernick is pretty much Jeremy Lin. The experiment is over and we need to move on.

Why because of 1 bad year where the Oline was banged up. Come on. You have to give him another year. This is what annoys me. Some of you guys give up too soon. Lets see what happens when we have an healthy Oline and a new OC.

 

[darken65]

Why because of 1 bad year where the Oline was banged up. Come on. You have to give him another year. This is what annoys me. Some of you guys give up too soon. Lets see what happens when we have an healthy Oline and a new OC.

What happens when the 9ers don't have a new OC or a healthy OL next season? Is that all that is needed for the 9ers to win?

 

[Robotech]

Colin Kaepernick is pretty much Jeremy Lin. The experiment is over and we need to move on.

My guess is that the experiment has one more year. After next season, the Niners will make their move to either keep him or cut him. I doubt he stays as a backup.

 

[darken65]

Colin Kaepernick is pretty much Jeremy Lin. The experiment is over and we need to move on.

IMO just give the kid until the end of this season and see how he reacts. Just give him these three games.

 

[Robotech]

IMO just give the kid until the end of this season and see how he reacts. Just give him these three games.

At the very least. I think they'll give him next season, too. This is really his first taste of serious adversity, IMO. You always want to see how someone reacts to the adversity before you make up your mind.