Dodgers trade for HamRam

[filosofy29]

#5 pitchers never have more than 20 or so starts in a year...typically, they bounce up and down from AAA...Timmy is a #4. Any pitcher who qualifies for the ERA title (one IP for every game the team has played) is at worst a #4.

Eovaldi's peripherals have him as a #3 (i.e. ranked between 32 and 48 in the NL).

Why would you assume HanRam is going to hit .270? Over his last 800 ABs he's been under .250....put another way, Crawford is as likely to hit .270.

And yes, I think you can expect Kershaw and Timmy to regress to their norms (today notwithstanding).

In regards to the first two paragraphs, gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

I'm not assuming he's going to hit .270 (assuming in the sense that I'd "bet" that he will). I'm just saying what "if". You are correct, over the last two seasons, he's batting a lovely .244, but the prior (roughly) 3000 AB's, he was batting .313. I haven't seen enough of Hanley's games to know why he's had the drop off, I just pulled the .270 out of my arse as an "if" by using a crude average of what he used to hit and what he's been batting the last two years.

 

[gp956]

Nice start for Hanley, triple and a run scored, single and an rbi. but dodgers still lose.

 

[SFAnthem]

Nice start for Hanley, triple and a run scored, single and an rbi. but dodgers still lose.

To be fair, that triple was kind of a misplay by the CF but they have to be pleased about getting immediate production

 

[SFAnthem]

All I remember is getting a feeling about the Dodgers after their hot start, and being shouted down here by multiple people: "all they are is 2 hitters and Kershaw", etc. Just sayin'.

No one thought it was a 3 team race at season's start including me. Check the threads, we all thought it was us vs AZ, and many of us including myself thought AZ was a slight favorite.

What started it for me was the Dodgers going 9-1 to start the season. Some team or two always comes from nowhere to contend. I decided then it was the Dodgers. Turns out that was right. Big fucking deal I finally made a kind of correct guess about something.

Woah woah woah. Hold on a minute. Results are still inconclusive. After being 7 games up they dropped almost 10 games in the standings.

The pennant race barely has begun.

The ending to this debate has yet to be written. As the dodgers have shown is the ability to have deep pockets.

This is round 5 in a scheduled 12 round fight.


(btw, i had az and the rockies! as contenders, with the dogs being a .500 team)

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Nice start for Hanley, triple and a run scored, single and an rbi. but dodgers still lose.

Hey guess what?

Fuck the Dodgers!

That's what! WOOT!

 

[MrChangoT97]

#a

Hey guess what?

Fuck the Dodgers!

That's what! WOOT!

I agree!

 

[SFAnthem]

With the Dodgers opening day roster, I never shouted down someone stating they had an outside shot at the Division, and I think you're mistaking reasoned responses for getting shouted down on the internet. In my opinion, the Dodgers had last year's best young starting pitcher and position player in all of baseball, and they made improvements to a weak rotation. The only team that I thought had no chance whatsoever at the NL West Title was San Diego. I'm more surprised by the Rockies not even having a go at one of the wild cards than I am about the Dodgers being virtually assured a spot in the playoffs, at this point in the season.

I agree..wtf happened to the Rockies?? Not shedding any tears mind you but Cargo and Tulo were a good starting point for any contender.

Plus, it's not like the dodgers were a horrible team last year. They were a few games above .500. Without foreseeing a new ownership with no hesitation to eat up contracts, that's where I had them this year, too. Only significant upgrades could change that.

 

[SFGRTB]

I agree..wtf happened to the Rockies?? Not shedding any tears mind you but Cargo and Tulo were a good starting point for any contender.

Plus, it's not like the dodgers were a horrible team last year. They were a few games above .500. Without foreseeing a new ownership with no hesitation to eat up contracts, that's where I had them this year, too. Only significant upgrades could change that.

What happened to the Colorado Rockies is that they have four number 4 starters and Jonathan Sanchez, and an injured Tulo, Helton and Giambi. They weren't going to be a huge threat anyway though IMO.

 

[filosofy29]

Hey guess what?

Fuck the Dodgers!

That's what! WOOT!

It's nice to see the Dodgers get great pitching and good hitting from Hanley.....and still lose.

Fuck the Doghairs indeed.

 

[msgkings322]

Woah woah woah. Hold on a minute. Results are still inconclusive. After being 7 games up they dropped almost 10 games in the standings.

The pennant race barely has begun.

The ending to this debate has yet to be written. As the dodgers have shown is the ability to have deep pockets.

This is round 5 in a scheduled 12 round fight.


(btw, i had az and the rockies! as contenders, with the dogs being a .500 team)

I didn't say anything about conclusive, that's to be found out at season's end. I recognized them as one of this year's surprise teams early, and they are. And they will be until season's end. I don't get a medal or anything, I just get to smugly say I was right.



And for all tzill's hand waving about HanRam, that's a real upgrade to their worst position, just like the White Sox did with Youkilis. Yes he's way too expensive, but for the present day this helps their record. And for us in 2012, we have to deal with it.

For us it comes down to Timmy being a .500 pitcher and Belt contributing. We get those two things, we win the West even when LA gets a starter.

 

[gp956]

I didn't say anything about conclusive, that's to be found out at season's end. I recognized them as one of this year's surprise teams early, and they are. And they will be until season's end. I don't get a medal or anything, I just get to smugly say I was right.



And for all tzill's hand waving about HanRam, that's a real upgrade to their worst position, just like the White Sox did with Youkilis. Yes he's way too expensive, but for the present day this helps their record. And for us in 2012, we have to deal with it.

For us it comes down to Timmy being a .500 pitcher and Belt contributing. We get those two things, we win the West even when LA gets a starter.

Yeah. not sure how anyone can hand wave away Hanley. Huge upgrade over what hey had. And it looks like they'll get another solid pitcher before the deadline.

 

[tzill]

Nice start for Hanley, triple and a run scored, single and an rbi. but dodgers still lose.

That "triple" should have been caught. John Jay fielded that like he was on roller skates. Horrible defense.

 

[tzill]

I didn't say anything about conclusive, that's to be found out at season's end. I recognized them as one of this year's surprise teams early, and they are. And they will be until season's end. I don't get a medal or anything, I just get to smugly say I was right.



And for all tzill's hand waving about HanRam, that's a real upgrade to their worst position, just like the White Sox did with Youkilis. Yes he's way too expensive, but for the present day this helps their record. And for us in 2012, we have to deal with it.

For us it comes down to Timmy being a .500 pitcher and Belt contributing. We get those two things, we win the West even when LA gets a starter.

"Handwaving?" Hardly. The dude has 800 ABs of average at best offense, and below average defense. This all adds up to replacement level production (i.e. what you would expect from a AAA callup) in 2011 and bench level production (e.g. Joaquin Arias) in 2012. He's sucking up $15MM in payroll through 2014. That's a bad deal. Add in the fact that the doyers gave up a #3 SP and it becomes a horrible deal. In essence, they gave up a middle of the rotation starter for the privilege of paying a backup All-Star money. That is not how teams get better.

No part of that is "handwaving." I just looked at the stats and they're not a SSS. The doyers are betting he's going to improve and there is simply no good reason to believe he will. Could it work out for them? Sure, it's baseball and Vogelsongs happen. Is it likely to work out? Hell fucking no.

 

[tzill]

Yeah. not sure how anyone can hand wave away Hanley. Huge upgrade over what hey had. And it looks like they'll get another solid pitcher before the deadline.

But they could have had the same upgrade for much less money and without giving up a middle of the rotation SP. What about that is hard to see? HanRam is a $15MM player producing like Arias. Or Nate.

Put another way, had they traded Eovaldi for Arias would you be saying "it's an upgrade?" It would be an upgrade, but I strongly suspect nobody here would be sweating the acquisition, and most would be saying that the doyers got raped.

Whether they add Dempster, Garza, or whomever is irrelevant to the HanRam deal. It was a bad one by any measure.

 

[msgkings322]

But they could have had the same upgrade for much less money and without giving up a middle of the rotation SP. What about that is hard to see? HanRam is a $15MM player producing like Arias. Or Nate.

Put another way, had they traded Eovaldi for Arias would you be saying "it's an upgrade?" It would be an upgrade, but I strongly suspect nobody here would be sweating the acquisition, and most would be saying that the doyers got raped.

Whether they add Dempster, Garza, or whomever is irrelevant to the HanRam deal. It was a bad one by any measure.

Your hands are going to get tired if you keep this up.

Adding a pitcher is very relevant because then the team on the field is better both in hitting and pitching. Yes the deal sucked $ wise, doesn't matter in the 2012 standings.

Anyway it's all just words, it'll be what it'll be. Us worrying or not worrying about these moves doesn't affect a single game.

 

[calsnowskier]

But they could have had the same upgrade for much less money and without giving up a middle of the rotation SP. What about that is hard to see? HanRam is a $15MM player producing like Arias. Or Nate.

Put another way, had they traded Eovaldi for Arias would you be saying "it's an upgrade?" It would be an upgrade, but I strongly suspect nobody here would be sweating the acquisition, and most would be saying that the doyers got raped.

Whether they add Dempster, Garza, or whomever is irrelevant to the HanRam deal. It was a bad one by any measure.

Based on this logic, the Mets should have accepted me in trade for Beltran last year instead of Wheeler. My MLB track-record is the exact same as his, but I make a LOT less money.

And yet, if the Giants had traded me to the Muts instead of Wheeler, Sabean would have been praised for the trade instead of placing it into the "bad trade" bin that it now resides in.

Arias has no track record to EVER be compared to HanRam. HanRam WAS one of, if not THE best player in the game just a couple years ago. The Fish is an organization that has had some serious turmoil in the time since. IT is not a HUGE stretch to assume HanRam will return to at least a portion of his former self. IT is absolute lunacy to assume Arias will ever sniff that kind of production.

 

[Heathbar012]

Based on this logic, the Mets should have accepted me in trade for Beltran last year instead of Wheeler. My MLB track-record is the exact same as his, but I make a LOT less money.

And yet, if the Giants had traded me to the Muts instead of Wheeler, Sabean would have been praised for the trade instead of placing it into the "bad trade" bin that it now resides in.

Arias has no track record to EVER be compared to HanRam. HanRam WAS one of, if not THE best player in the game just a couple years ago. The Fish is an organization that has had some serious turmoil in the time since. IT is not a HUGE stretch to assume HanRam will return to at least a portion of his former self. IT is absolute lunacy to assume Arias will ever sniff that kind of production.

I agree with everything, but the bolded. That trade was necessary in the context of that 2011 season, and that is from a guy that was saying "Anyone but Wheeler" to anyone that would listen on July 27th.

 

[calsnowskier]

I agree with everything, but the bolded. That trade was necessary in the context of that 2011 season, and that is from a guy that was saying "Anyone but Wheeler" to anyone that would listen on July 27th.

I agree 100%. I was speaking through the 20/20 hindsight lens.

While I was not a 100% fan of the trade at the time, I understood the necessity of it at the time.

 

[gp956]

But they could have had the same upgrade for much less money and without giving up a middle of the rotation SP. What about that is hard to see? HanRam is a $15MM player producing like Arias. Or Nate.

Put another way, had they traded Eovaldi for Arias would you be saying "it's an upgrade?" It would be an upgrade, but I strongly suspect nobody here would be sweating the acquisition, and most would be saying that the doyers got raped.

Whether they add Dempster, Garza, or whomever is irrelevant to the HanRam deal. It was a bad one by any measure.

You must be working a lot of hours.

 

[Heathbar012]

I agree 100%. I was speaking through the 20/20 hindsight lens.

While I was not a 100% fan of the trade at the time, I understood the necessity of it at the time.

I knew what you meant, but I think context always needs to be applied to 20/20 hindsight viewings or it isn't a good barometer (if it ever is). The context in this case takes it from being a "bad trade" to "below average trade." I know. Semantics.