D-Nucleus Rank: Pats 18th Overall

[TKO]

i think you guys had one too many sips on the alcoholic eggnog over christmas this d healthy is top 5 in the league. it was being proven right to our faces to start the season! talib was mvp canadit shutting down aj green, julio jones, vincent jackson, jimmy graham and dennard the best #2 cb in the league was beasting fools too! then talib hurt his ckicken hip and dennard ankle and knee. we lose all our dt's inside and mayo..comeon. the defense is elite the stats dont tell the story after all the injuries. we need a stud strong safety, de opposite jones, and a dt even if armstead is a go next year. dont need much. the reason seattle is better is cuz they play more aggressive and blitz, until patricia is upgraded we wont reach the top. but we are not far off.

I think they have a very good chance of getting into that top five area next year if they add a few upgrades and keep Talib. The OP was about answering this question:

If I am the best coaching candidate on the market, which defensive personnel would I most want to take over?

I wouldn't place the Patriots personnel in the top five. However, Belichick is a top five GOAT HC with Xs and Os and that has a lot to do with the performance of the team with the current personnel...healthy or not. I'm pretty sure you were on board with adding an athletic DT that can rush and a couple of outside rushers so clearly they need to upgrade the current nucleus. They were forced to add a few inside role players that turned out better than we thought, along with good looking rookies in Ryan and Collins, but they still need to improve Carter's spot, add an athletic DT and upgrade the safety position/Gregory IMO. I think you also agreed with upgrading, or at least augmenting the rush from Ninkovich's spot. I'm not drinking alcohol when I assess them or the Kool-Aid by overestimating them. They're closer to a finished product but they're not there yet...IMO.

 

[Drawmeomg]

I mostly agree with TKO's assessment of needs. I think every starting position on this defense is at least decent - I think I'd be looking to make only one change in the starting unit, that being Steve Gregory.

I'm not sure I agree on needing an athletic DT. I thought Chris Jones looked pretty good in that role. For that matter, Vince Wilfork and Tommy Kelly were getting the job done early. They can push a pocket. They do need some better DT depth, though I think they specifically need another big body more than they need an athletic pass rusher.

Underrated storyline that I'm surprised nobody has talked about: Deaderick and Love were set to be their top backups at DT. The team went through the entire offseason with those guys set, then lost them after it was too late to compensate for the problem because of their issues (diabetes for Love, attitude for Deaderick). They expected to play this season with a DT depth chart of Vince Wilfork, Tommy Kelly, Brandon Deaderick, Armond Armstead and Kyle Love. Instead, they ended up with Wilfork and Kelly on IR, Deaderick and Love gone, Armstead never materialized (yet, next season he'll have a chance), and they're playing with Sealver Siliga, Chris Jones, Isaac Sopoaga and Joe Vellano. Best laid plans, right?

The other stuff - assessing this year's crop of defensive rookies (Chris Jones, Joe Vellano, Logan Ryan, Jamie Collins, Duron Harmon all look like quality players and Michael Buchanan has shown some flashes, will have to develop), I don't see any real stars in that group, but I see a lot of really good role players who ought to stabilize the upper-middle of the roster while some of the older stars serve as the captains, and of course Collins and Ryan in particular have at least the potential to develop into star-type players.

Gimme another pass rushing DE - doesn't have to be a 3 down player, another big DT and another safety in the mix (Buchanan, Armstead and Harmon could turn out to be great at each of those spots but none of them are remotely sure things right now, add another player or two into the mix in the offseason at each spot) and make sure you get Talib, Wilfork, Kelly and Mayo back and this defense should be great next year.

 

[TKO]

I mostly agree with TKO's assessment of needs. I think every starting position on this defense is at least decent - I think I'd be looking to make only one change in the starting unit, that being Steve Gregory.

I'm not sure I agree on needing an athletic DT. I thought Chris Jones looked pretty good in that role. For that matter, Vince Wilfork and Tommy Kelly were getting the job done early. They can push a pocket. They do need some better DT depth, though I think they specifically need another big body more than they need an athletic pass rusher.

Underrated storyline that I'm surprised nobody has talked about: Deaderick and Love were set to be their top backups at DT. The team went through the entire offseason with those guys set, then lost them after it was too late to compensate for the problem because of their issues (diabetes for Love, attitude for Deaderick). They expected to play this season with a DT depth chart of Vince Wilfork, Tommy Kelly, Brandon Deaderick, Armond Armstead and Kyle Love. Instead, they ended up with Wilfork and Kelly on IR, Deaderick and Love gone, Armstead never materialized (yet, next season he'll have a chance), and they're playing with Sealver Siliga, Chris Jones, Isaac Sopoaga and Joe Vellano. Best laid plans, right?

The other stuff - assessing this year's crop of defensive rookies (Chris Jones, Joe Vellano, Logan Ryan, Jamie Collins, Duron Harmon all look like quality players and Michael Buchanan has shown some flashes, will have to develop), I don't see any real stars in that group, but I see a lot of really good role players who ought to stabilize the upper-middle of the roster while some of the older stars serve as the captains, and of course Collins and Ryan in particular have at least the potential to develop into star-type players.

Gimme another pass rushing DE - doesn't have to be a 3 down player, another big DT and another safety in the mix (Buchanan, Armstead and Harmon could turn out to be great at each of those spots but none of them are remotely sure things right now, add another player or two into the mix in the offseason at each spot) and make sure you get Talib, Wilfork, Kelly and Mayo back and this defense should be great next year.

Sounds like a reasonable plan to me. I'd be happy with it and on the offensive side...they can still add a TE, we all pretty much agree on that.

 

[rehone]

My little personal troll...

Well I guess if I respond to your insulting comment then it will be deleted also when your pal, that is the moderator, protects you from anyone saying anything such as calling you a troll so I will refrain. Nope, decided not to.

I have now made 7 comments in over 2 months so I find you a total bore and repetitive in your continual obsession with anyone contradicting or even questioning anything you post. How typically male that is of you but it is rather unmanly to whine to a moderator. I do enjoy it when you become so perplexed.

Nothing anyone could possibly say would make you consider anything other than your own pinion because you do have a rather high opinion of yourself, an opinion not based in fact I might add. You lord it over everyone on this site because you have some sycophant that allows you to get away with it. You enjoy bullying anyone that dares question you.

The Patriots have drafted well overall or they would not have the record they have had since 2001. They would not have appeared in 5 Superbowls. Drafting also includes UDFAs and few teams are as good at that as NE but then I assume you will disagree.

I am surprised an NFL team has not scooped you up and put you in charge of their scouting department and demanded that you lead their draft room. Oh wait, that would require you having a clue. I bet it makes you feel powerful and self fulfilled when you can push people around on a Patriots Board. Now you can have this comment deleted.

Just for the moderator. It is personal when someone calls you a troll but then I doubt that matters to you.

 

[TKO]

Well I guess if I respond to your insulting comment then it will be deleted also when your pal, that is the moderator, protects you from anyone saying anything such as calling you a troll so I will refrain. Nope, decided not to.

I have now made 7 comments in over 2 months so I find you a total bore and repetitive in your continual obsession with anyone contradicting or even questioning anything you post. How typically male that is of you but it is rather unmanly to whine to a moderator. I do enjoy it when you become so perplexed.

Nothing anyone could possibly say would make you consider anything other than your own pinion because you do have a rather high opinion of yourself, an opinion not based in fact I might add. You lord it over everyone on this site because you have some sycophant that allows you to get away with it. You enjoy bullying anyone that dares question you.

The Patriots have drafted well overall or they would not have the record they have had since 2001. They would not have appeared in 5 Superbowls. Drafting also includes UDFAs and few teams are as good at that as NE but then I assume you will disagree.

I am surprised an NFL team has not scooped you up and put you in charge of their scouting department and demanded that you lead their draft room. Oh wait, that would require you having a clue. I bet it makes you feel powerful and self fulfilled when you can push people around on a Patriots Board. Now you can have this comment deleted.

Just for the moderator. It is personal when someone calls you a troll but then I doubt that matters to you.

Brady is half the QB Manning is...the stats never lie...rolls eyes at a moron-homer.

I wasn't whining to anyone. I gave you a break by not stooping to your level and the Mod knows it. I told him it wouldn't last if they allowed you to continue to post your attack drivel and just walk away with a slap on your limp wrist. Fair is fair.

Come back when I start a new thread...my personal troll.

 

[TKO]

Words of wisdom from Alberta Einstein Rehoney:

"Drafting also includes UDFAs and few teams are as good at that as NE but then I assume you will disagree."

Sorry but...DRAFTING doesn't include UNDRAFTED players........... LOL!!!

Sarcasm is acceptable.

 

[Bruschi_Warrior]

Words of wisdom from Alberta Einstein Rehoney:

"Drafting also includes UDFAs and few teams are as good at that as NE but then I assume you will disagree."

Sorry but...DRAFTING doesn't include UNDRAFTED players........... LOL!!!

Sarcasm is acceptable.

Krafty - I guess some things are never going to change like people reaching when it comes to their opinions in order for them to feel like they are right.

Justin Green is back on the field folks. Lovely.

 

[rehone]

Words of wisdom from Alberta Einstein Rehoney:

"Drafting also includes UDFAs and few teams are as good at that as NE but then I assume you will disagree."

Sorry but...DRAFTING doesn't include UNDRAFTED players........... LOL!!!

Sarcasm is acceptable.

Actually UDFA picked up after the draft ARE part of the draft process and a very important part of the draft process because it fills out rosters and may possibly make the team and help. every team in the NFL including your beloved Seachickens do that.

The Patriots have a long history of finding undrafted players after the draft is over and COMPETING with other teams so they will attend the Patriots camp. WOuld you like me to name some of them?

Players may be UDFA but not have been grabbed by the Patriots at the end of the 7th round. I must admit I think you are rather silly along with a few others but making this kind of erroneous claim about UDFA clearly indicates your general lack of knowledge.

Anyone that believes the process of signing UDFA after the draft ends is not important is not very bright.

 

[bunchofpixels]

I'm pretty sure TKO was just playing with the words DRAFTED and UNDRAFTED. Obviously signing UDFA are a part of the process. Lighten up...

 

[TKO]

Krafty - I guess some things are never going to change like people reaching when it comes to their opinions in order for them to feel like they are right.

Justin Green is back on the field folks. Lovely.

LOL! In Rehone's world...Screen passes to running backs are really runs!

 

[TKO]

Actually UDFA picked up after the draft ARE part of the draft process and a very important part of the draft process because it fills out rosters and may possibly make the team and help. every team in the NFL including your beloved Seachickens do that.

The Patriots have a long history of finding undrafted players after the draft is over and COMPETING with other teams so they will attend the Patriots camp. WOuld you like me to name some of them?

Players may be UDFA but not have been grabbed by the Patriots at the end of the 7th round. I must admit I think you are rather silly along with a few others but making this kind of erroneous claim about UDFA clearly indicates your general lack of knowledge.

Anyone that believes the process of signing UDFA after the draft ends is not important is not very bright.

LOL!

Rehoney: "Drafting includes UNDRAFTED players."

One of the funniest things I've ever heard.

 

[Bruschi_Warrior]

Rehone - no offense but use some common sense.

Signing UDFA's is not a part of the draft because the draft is over and then they are going back to work and signing guys that they want on the practice squad or competing for a job on the roster.

With that said - yes, there have been UDFA's that have had an impact on the Patriots and probably more than any other franchise in the NFL which is only a credit to the Patriots scouting department, especially this year with guys like Jones and Vellano.

 

[rehone]

LOL!

Rehoney: "Drafting includes UNDRAFTED players."

One of the funniest things I've ever heard.

Well KNOCKED OUT let me explain it for you. I realize a limited football IQ is your detriment so here goes.

As the draft progresses through the later rounds EVERY team has a list of players they were interested in that have not been drafted. Can you understand that. Think about it for a second and grasp the concept.

As the draft progresses through the later rounds teams have lists that have shrunk but there are still many players certain teams have given 6th or 7th or even earlier round draft grades on but have chosen other players in the draft because low and behold they had them rated higher. Can you grasp that simple fact?

As the 7th round begins teams begin to look at possible players that may not be drafted. Can you grasp that?

As the 7th round ends teams scramble to contact those players that were not drafted in a 7 round draft that at one time was 10-12 rounds. Those players can sign with who they want to but teams base this on their "draft analysis". Can you grasp that.

It is part of the draft process because the player was graded and teams decide on the grade to try and sign them. Can you grasp that?

That is clearly part of the process of drafting players.

 

[TKO]

Well KNOCKED OUT let me explain it for you. I realize a limited football IQ is your detriment so here goes.

As the draft progresses through the later rounds EVERY team has a list of players they were interested in that have not been drafted. Can you understand that. Think about it for a second and grasp the concept.

As the draft progresses through the later rounds teams have lists that have shrunk but there are still many players certain teams have given 6th or 7th or even earlier round draft grades on but have chosen other players in the draft because low and behold they had them rated higher. Can you grasp that simple fact?

As the 7th round begins teams begin to look at possible players that may not be drafted. Can you grasp that?

As the 7th round ends teams scramble to contact those players that were not drafted in a 7 round draft that at one time was 10-12 rounds. Those players can sign with who they want to but teams base this on their "draft analysis". Can you grasp that.

It is part of the draft process because the player was graded and teams decide on the grade to try and sign them. Can you grasp that?

That is clearly part of the process of drafting players.

What you just wrote is football 101 so please stop making me laugh.

That being said....Drafting does not include signing UNDRAFTED players.

You seem to need a free Football 101 lesson so here you are:

Signing UDFAs is more like signing veteran free agents than it is selecting a player from the pool of draft eligible players; because ANY TEAM CAN SIGN AN UDFA just like any team can sign a veteran free agent. No other team can draft a player when you're on the clock unless you trade your pick or go beyond the time limit.

You know this so just stop being a "Contrary Mary". You made an error and have a need to get the last word in but all you're doing is making it worse. Admit it and give it up.

 

[rehone]

What you just wrote is football 101 so please stop making me laugh.

That being said....Drafting does not include signing UNDRAFTED players.

You seem to need a free Football 101 lesson so here you are:

Signing UDFAs is more like signing veteran free agents than it is selecting a player from the pool of draft eligible players; because ANY TEAM CAN SIGN AN UDFA just like any team can sign a veteran free agent. No other team can draft a player when you're on the clock unless you trade your pick or go beyond the time limit.

You know this so just stop being a "Contrary Mary". You made an error and have a need to get the last word in but all you're doing is making it worse. Admit it and give it up.

Actually the Contrary Mary is you Krafty but then that is what you are. The facts remain as stated Based on the draft board as the 7th round ends teams attempt to sign players that were not drafted. It is without question part of the draft process because they sign prospects they might have drafted in the 7th if they had more picks.

It is what it is and if you had one ounce of common sense you would admit that but then common sense is not something you are gifted with but then most men are limited in that particular area.

Just because the player does not have a draft position does not mean the player was not evaluated, rated, and judged by the teams in the draft process. Therefore they are part of the draft process because without the draft process they would be unknown. BB has talked about this many times in the past and I realize BB is not as skilled as you at drafting but he gets something correct every couple of years but maybe you should offer your skills to the Pats since obviously BB and the Pats have no clue what they have been doing since 2000.

Just to add a little punch to the argument. I have been correct about more Pats players in the past than you have, Just ask Briz. The reason is I have access to better information than you do.

Now go back and play with your legos. Maybe you can do something relevant.

 

[TKO]

Actually the Contrary Mary is you Krafty but then that is what you are. The facts remain as stated Based on the draft board as the 7th round ends teams attempt to sign players that were not drafted. It is without question part of the draft process because they sign prospects they might have drafted in the 7th if they had more picks.

It is what it is and if you had one ounce of common sense you would admit that but then common sense is not something you are gifted with but then most men are limited in that particular area.

Just because the player does not have a draft position does not mean the player was not evaluated, rated, and judged by the teams in the draft process. Therefore they are part of the draft process because without the draft process they would be unknown. BB has talked about this many times in the past and I realize BB is not as skilled as you at drafting but he gets something correct every couple of years but maybe you should offer your skills to the Pats since obviously BB and the Pats have no clue what they have been doing since 2000.

Just to add a little punch to the argument. I have been correct about more Pats players in the past than you have, Just ask Briz. The reason is I have access to better information than you do.

Now go back and play with your legos. Maybe you can do something relevant.

Rehoney: Drafting includes UNDRAFTED PLAYERS

Get some common sense. You can keep saying it all you want but it'll never be true....fool.

You said the following:

"Drafting also includes UDFAs and few teams are as good at that as NE but then I assume you will disagree."

You'd love to change that stupidity into "THE DRAFTING PROCESS" to cover your butt. There's only one problem with that...you didn't say it!



LOL! TOO FUNNY!

 

[TKO]

By the way...I doubt briz would say DRAFTING includes UNDRAFTED FREE AGENTS but you can ask him.

I find this funny though, everyone else in the thread seemed to rank the team's defenses as the article did but you chose to attack me as if I wrote it...but I DIDN'T write it.

My little stalker troll...

I'm done with this thread and all your nonsense in it Rehoney.

 

[JDM]

Screen passes are often considered an extension of the running game and UDFAs are part of the draft process, considering that the draft process is basically the scouting and that's how you determine who to sign.

 

[TKO]

Screen passes are often considered an extension of the running game and UDFAs are part of the draft process, considering that the draft process is basically the scouting and that's how you determine who to sign.

Is a Mod --- joining the fight for Rehoney? LOL! I thought you had more brains.

Screen passes and UNDRAFTED Free Agents are what they say they are unless or until you add a qualifier like "extension" to their meaning. Passes are passes, not runs and DRAFTING players does not include signing UNDRAFTED players.

You can help her out if you want to add a qualifier for her but the DRAFT has to be 100% over before you can sign UNDRAFTED players.

"Drafting also includes UDFAs and few teams are as good at that as NE but then I assume you will disagree."




Yes I disagree because it's apples and oranges.

 

[JDM]

Did I agree with anyone? I'm just stating reality.


Most consider screens an extension of the running game.

Most consider signing UDFAs as part of the draft process.

It's not drafting but it is the same process.