Cleveland Browns Ongoing Thread

[Across The Field]

WRONG.

He had multiple games that were far better than Kessler and it isn't close. Can't believe we are even talking about this.

Kessler had one game where he threw more than 1 TD in 9 starts. One game where he threw for over 250 yards.

His best game: 26-41 63% 336 yards 2 TD's 0 INT's

Bakers BETTER games - Unless you think yards outweighs scoring points and being very accurate

17-20 85% 216 yards 3 TD's 0 INT's
19-26 73% 258 yards 4 TD's 0 Int's
27-37 73% 284 yards 3 TD's 0 INT's

He also had a couple games you could put up with Kessler's best game but that is debatable.

You vouching for a 3rd pick and saying his best game is close to Bakers' is laughable. You are trying to find ways to give Sashi most of the credit for the rebuild.

Are you Sashi Brown or a relative of the guy? You seem to have an agenda giving this guy pretty much all the credit for the Browns rebuild. If this guy was such an asset to the organization he should have a job and be employed. Still waiting.... I am just really confused why you think Kessler's best is close to Baker and what one game proves regardless. They are close, Kessler will most likely never be a starting QB ever in this league unless injuries happen. Suitable backup, sure why not.

His love affair with Sashi is remarkable. It's hilarious that he keeps trying to act like trading down repeatedly and not signing players means you're a genius GM. Not only that, but he keeps bringing guys into the conversation like Eric Mangini and Mike Holmgren who have nothing at all to do with this discussion.

 

[dtgold88]

WRONG.

He had multiple games that were far better than Kessler and it isn't close. Can't believe we are even talking about this.

Kessler had one game where he threw more than 1 TD in 9 starts. One game where he threw for over 250 yards.

His best game: 26-41 63% 336 yards 2 TD's 0 INT's

Bakers BETTER games - Unless you think yards outweighs scoring points and being very accurate

17-20 85% 216 yards 3 TD's 0 INT's
19-26 73% 258 yards 4 TD's 0 Int's
27-37 73% 284 yards 3 TD's 0 INT's

He also had a couple games you could put up with Kessler's best game but that is debatable.

You vouching for a 3rd pick and saying his best game is close to Bakers' is laughable. You are trying to find ways to give Sashi most of the credit for the rebuild.

Are you Sashi Brown or a relative of the guy? You seem to have an agenda giving this guy pretty much all the credit for the Browns rebuild. If this guy was such an asset to the organization he should have a job and be employed. Still waiting.... I am just really confused why you think Kessler's best is close to Baker and what one game proves regardless. They are close, Kessler will most likely never be a starting QB ever in this league unless injuries happen. Suitable backup, sure why not.

Try to read this before you continue (and understand it).....Baker is a far better QB than Kessler. Probably why he went 1 and Kessler 93rd. But to say his best games were "far better" is inaccurate. I am 100% sure you could switch their games and you'd find reason why Baker had the better games.

You actually said accuracy means more than yards. 11-12 for 77 yards would be better than 11-17 for 220 yards? No, yards do not outweigh scoring points.

I never said Kessler's best game was better, but the 3 by Baker are not "far better"

And of course even though you come up with excuse after excuse for anyone Dorsey picked, you ignore Kessler's best WR was Pryor and Baker's was Landry. Thinking Chubb a little better than Crow, as well.

If you keep saying I am giving Sashi ALL the credit over and over do you feel like at some poiint it wont be something other than you just not being able to read and comprehend?

 

[dtgold88]

So you believe Sashi had a crystal ball and that he knew he'd wind up with a higher pick than he dealt? And when did he trade up and also grabbed an extra #1? I saw he traded back in 2016 and in 2017.

Dorsey inherited an 0-16 team and in 14 months he systematically gutted it and replaced nearly the entire roster with better players. They were not ascending. He took over a team with a horrible QB that Sashi/Berry spent a 2nd rounder on. Dorsey skillfully flipped him for our starting FS who had a fantastic year.

I've given you answers to every question you've asked that was serious, unlike your "Do you not want Baker and Garrett?" idiot question. And why do you keep bringing Mangini into this? He was never the GM. How do you not know that?

Replaced the entire roster with better players? 14 of 22 starters last year either were not from Dorsey, or Dorsey used picks or players of sashi's to acquire the player.

That horrible QB was used to acquire our FS. They used a 2nd rounder on a guy who at one time was thought to go #1. They decidied not to take a QB and wait for the 2018 draft and be able to get the guy of their choosing...in a draft most thought would be QB heavy.

Oh...and let's not forget without all the cap space and extra picks how is Dorsey making all these moves? Guess I should ask if you are his love child? But I wont. I'll try to keep it civil. I'll try to remain objective and rational. I'll try not to make up shit that you never said. Feel free to do the same.

 

[Across The Field]

Replaced the entire roster with better players? 14 of 22 starters last year either were not from Dorsey, or Dorsey used picks or players of sashi's to acquire the player.

That horrible QB was used to acquire our FS. They used a 2nd rounder on a guy who at one time was thought to go #1. They decidied not to take a QB and wait for the 2018 draft and be able to get the guy of their choosing...in a draft most thought would be QB heavy.

Oh...and let's not forget without all the cap space and extra picks how is Dorsey making all these moves? Guess I should ask if you are his love child? But I wont. I'll try to keep it civil. I'll try to remain objective and rational. I'll try not to make up shit that you never said. Feel free to do the same.

LOL you're literally doing the exact opposite and have been throughout the entire thread.

 

[dtgold88]

Are you done yet? Are you ready to even try to make a point yet?

No need...you've proven my point.

From Logic 150 at OSU......
Irrational people wont answer direct questions
You wont answer direct questions
You are irrational

 

[dtgold88]

LOL you're literally doing the exact opposite and have been throughout the entire thread.

Ya gotta love when irrational prople think "lol", "smh" or irrelevant GIFs/memes enhance flawed points.

Here is my main point(s)
1) I think the plan by Sashi/Paul D (and others) needed to be done
2) I am glad Jimmy allowed them to execute the plan
3) I think they did a very good job to set things up for Dorsey and make good on the plan for a 4 year rebuild (we are now in year 4)
4) I think Dorsey has done a fantastic job since taking over.

Here is yours
1) Everything good is Dorsey
2) Everything bad is Sashi

How many more times do you think one of you can say I think Sashi deserves ALL the credit or that I don't like Dorsey?

 

[Across The Field]

No need...you've proven my point.

From Logic 150 at OSU......
Irrational people wont answer direct questions
You wont answer direct questions
You are irrational

I have though, multiple times

 

[dtgold88]

His love affair with Sashi is remarkable. It's hilarious that he keeps trying to act like trading down repeatedly and not signing players means you're a genius GM. Not only that, but he keeps bringing guys into the conversation like Eric Mangini and Mike Holmgren who have nothing at all to do with this discussion.

I get you have a tough time following your own comments, but those guys were brought up to prove not all trade downs are the same. Or do you think Mangini did well in the assets he acquired in his deal with the Jets (a pick 12 later than his own, a 2 and Jet castoffs)

Read this one more time (or until you undersatand....

1) I think the plan by Sashi/Paul D (and others) needed to be done
2) I am glad Jimmy allowed them to execute the plan
3) I think they did a very good job to set things up for Dorsey and make good on the plan for a 4 year rebuild (we are now in year 4)
4) I think Dorsey has done a fantastic job since taking over.

Now tell me what you disagree with.

 

[Across The Field]

Ya gotta love when irrational prople think "lol", "smh" or irrelevant GIFs/memes enhance flawed points.

Here is my main point(s)
1) I think the plan by Sashi/Paul D (and others) needed to be done
2) I am glad Jimmy allowed them to execute the plan
3) I think they did a very good job to set things up for Dorsey and make good on the plan for a 4 year rebuild (we are now in year 4)
4) I think Dorsey has done a fantastic job since taking over.

Here is yours
1) Everything good is Dorsey
2) Everything bad is Sashi

How many more times do you think one of you can say I think Sashi deserves ALL the credit or that I don't like Dorsey?

When are you going to provide a link that said what Sashi did was his "plan"?

We're extremely luck we got Dorsey, that cannot be stressed enough. All of that tanking and trading down would have been useless if not for him coming in and actually doing the job of a real GM.

 

[Across The Field]

I get you have a tough time following your own comments, but those guys were brought up to prove not all trade downs are the same. Or do you think Mangini did well in the assets he acquired in his deal with the Jets (a pick 12 later than his own, a 2 and Jet castoffs)

Read this one more time (or until you undersatand....

1) I think the plan by Sashi/Paul D (and others) needed to be done
2) I am glad Jimmy allowed them to execute the plan
3) I think they did a very good job to set things up for Dorsey and make good on the plan for a 4 year rebuild (we are now in year 4)
4) I think Dorsey has done a fantastic job since taking over.

Now tell me what you disagree with.

1. It didn't. It literally only worked because we lucked into being to hire Dorsey. Otherwise we'd be fucked.
2. Ok
3. They literally only traded back in drafts and didn't re-sign guys. Without Dorsey, their plan is a disaster and we're sitting here with a disastrous team with no direction.
4. The only coherent thing you've said

 

[dtgold88]

I have though, multiple times

you actually didn't. You deflected as per your MO. But we can try again and see if you can give yes/no answers to dumbed down yes/no questions....

1) Did you think a tear down of a 3-13 roster would lead to a better season?
2) do you wish they did the usual and won 3-6 games?
3) If yes to 2, are you just not a fan of having Garrett and Baker on the team?

Let me help you before you distort and then later say you answered the Qs......

1) Answer is not "I have no idea". It's an opinion question. Of course we cannot KNOW but you are still allowed to offer your opinion
2) Answer is yes or no.....the word, Dorsey, need not be used despite your obsession
3) I'm not big on going with a "retarded" reference, but seems it applies more to the one who didn't understand the question. I'll help further. IF you wanted the usual 3-6 wins instead of 0-1 we probably draft lower in draft. IF we draft lower we probably don't get Garrett and Baker. so, would you rather have an extra few meaningless wins if it meant losing Garrett/Baker. Again, yes or no should be your only reply.

 

[Across The Field]

you actually didn't. You deflected as per your MO. But we can try again and see if you can give yes/no answers to dumbed down yes/no questions....

1) Did you think a tear down of a 3-13 roster would lead to a better season?
2) do you wish they did the usual and won 3-6 games?
3) If yes to 2, are you just not a fan of having Garrett and Baker on the team?

Let me help you before you distort and then later say you answered the Qs......

1) Answer is not "I have no idea". It's an opinion question. Of course we cannot KNOW but you are still allowed to offer your opinion
2) Answer is yes or no.....the word, Dorsey, need not be used despite your obsession
3) I'm not big on going with a "retarded" reference, but seems it applies more to the one who didn't understand the question. I'll help further. IF you wanted the usual 3-6 wins instead of 0-1 we probably draft lower in draft. IF we draft lower we probably don't get Garrett and Baker. so, would you rather have an extra few meaningless wins if it meant losing Garrett/Baker. Again, yes or no should be your only reply.

I've answered them in a way I see fit. Do you think you run the show here? Or that people are obligated to give you only the answers you want? Grow up already.

 

[dtgold88]

When are you going to provide a link that said what Sashi did was his "plan"?

We're extremely luck we got Dorsey, that cannot be stressed enough. All of that tanking and trading down would have been useless if not for him coming in and actually doing the job of a real GM.

The link is above, but here is is again, along with the excerpts. Actually a very good article......do you think like saying I think Sashi is resonsible for ALL the success that if you keep saying I didn't provide a link it means you can ignore the link each time I provide it?

Inside the Browns' front office, where hope and history collide

Here's an excerpt....By September 2015, many in the front office sensed that Farmer would be gone. It was perceived as an optimal time to pitch Haslam on a new vision. That fall, Haslam, team president Alec Scheiner, Sashi Brown and a few others visited executives in other sports in an effort to gain insights that might help steady the Browns, if not ultimately revolutionize football. Scheiner, Brown & Co. wanted to open Haslam's eyes to a different way of running a team, based heavily but not solely on analytics. The executives prepared a document for Haslam titled "Football Strategy Outline"to sell him on a radical rebounding plan based on a few years of pain that could pay off in many years of reward. The idea called for the Browns to tear down to the studs and commit to a four-year rebuild, primarily through the draft, mixing sabermetrics and traditional methods

"The analytics group authored a color-coded list of goals, labeled "Browns Guardrails." It consisted of nine tenets, from talent retention, to ending uncoordinated leaks, to communicating more with coaches, to accumulating as many draft picks as possible, especially high second-rounders. Left unsaid in the document was the most important goal: The Browns had to stick together. This is like a roller coaster, the analytics contingent would tell Haslam. He couldn't get off in the middle of the ride."

 

[Across The Field]

The link is above, but here is is again, along with the excerpts. Actually a very good article......do you think like saying I think Sashi is resonsible for ALL the success that if you keep saying I didn't provide a link it means you can ignore the link each time I provide it?

Inside the Browns' front office, where hope and history collide

Here's an excerpt....By September 2015, many in the front office sensed that Farmer would be gone. It was perceived as an optimal time to pitch Haslam on a new vision. That fall, Haslam, team president Alec Scheiner, Sashi Brown and a few others visited executives in other sports in an effort to gain insights that might help steady the Browns, if not ultimately revolutionize football. Scheiner, Brown & Co. wanted to open Haslam's eyes to a different way of running a team, based heavily but not solely on analytics. The executives prepared a document for Haslam titled "Football Strategy Outline"to sell him on a radical rebounding plan based on a few years of pain that could pay off in many years of reward. The idea called for the Browns to tear down to the studs and commit to a four-year rebuild, primarily through the draft, mixing sabermetrics and traditional methods

"The analytics group authored a color-coded list of goals, labeled "Browns Guardrails." It consisted of nine tenets, from talent retention, to ending uncoordinated leaks, to communicating more with coaches, to accumulating as many draft picks as possible, especially high second-rounders. Left unsaid in the document was the most important goal: The Browns had to stick together. This is like a roller coaster, the analytics contingent would tell Haslam. He couldn't get off in the middle of the ride."

So here is my question to you: If John Dorsey wasn't available, would you still be lauding Sashi and Berry so much? Or do you honestly think with their limited experience that they would've been able to rebuild our team to being a division and conference contender like it is now?

 

[dtgold88]

1. It didn't. It literally only worked because we lucked into being to hire Dorsey. Otherwise we'd be fucked.
2. Ok
3. They literally only traded back in drafts and didn't re-sign guys. Without Dorsey, their plan is a disaster and we're sitting here with a disastrous team with no direction.
4. The only coherent thing you've said

replies to your Dorsey loving replies...

1. How do you know? They hit on many picks. Baker was an analytic's wet dream. No reason to think he wouldn't be the choice if he stayed. Ward? who knows. Never mind it wasn't luck that lured Dorsey. It was the high picks and cap space provided by....say it with me......rhymes with Mashi
3. They literally stayed put at #1 and also traded UP into round 1. Traded down twice. traded up once. I think you are losing it. And the trade downs led to the #4 pick for which you like to credit Dorsey which could not be more comical. Rip Sashi for trading down, credit Dorsey for the pick. I could not make this up if I tried.
4. Yet I've said it over and over and you keep saying I give Sashi ALL the credit, I don't like Dorsey, etc. Weird, huh?

 

[dtgold88]

I've answered them in a way I see fit. Do you think you run the show here? Or that people are obligated to give you only the answers you want? Grow up already.

You did finally answer them and bravo to you. You get you did not give these same answers the first time right.

Having a Yosemite Sam-like meltdown because someone disagrees with your opinions and you tell me to grow up?

I couldn't even make this up if I wanted to.

 

[Across The Field]

replies to your Dorsey loving replies...

1. How do you know? They hit on many picks. Baker was an analytic's wet dream. No reason to think he wouldn't be the choice if he stayed. Ward? who knows. Never mind it wasn't luck that lured Dorsey. It was the high picks and cap space provided by....say it with me......rhymes with Mashi
3. They literally stayed put at #1 and also traded UP into round 1. Traded down twice. traded up once. I think you are losing it. And the trade downs led to the #4 pick for which you like to credit Dorsey which could not be more comical. Rip Sashi for trading down, credit Dorsey for the pick. I could not make this up if I tried.
4. Yet I've said it over and over and you keep saying I give Sashi ALL the credit, I don't like Dorsey, etc. Weird, huh?

Sashi did a good job of selecting Garrett, a pick that a toddler could have made. Please stop acting like this was some savvy move.

They traded up a few spots for Njoku, we'll see if it works out in the end. Can't see where that was actually necessary but OK. He has potential, but isn't there yet.

Wow, I'm losing it because I didn't acknowledge them trading up a few spots? Again, grow up.

Thank you Sashi. You did something damn near anyone with even slight knowledge of football could have done.

 

[Across The Field]

You did finally answer them and bravo to you. You get you did not give these same answers the first time right.

Having a Yosemite Sam-like meltdown because someone disagrees with your opinions and you tell me to grow up?

I couldn't even make this up if I wanted to.

How old are you?

 

[dtgold88]

So here is my question to you: If John Dorsey wasn't available, would you still be lauding Sashi and Berry so much? Or do you honestly think with their limited experience that they would've been able to rebuild our team to being a division and conference contender like it is now?

I actually answer direct questions even though I think I run the show.....

1) I probably would. Philly obviously liked Berry's work as they hired him in a VP role. With him gone, though, I'd want Sashi to hire a different credible GM....and with all those assets he provided it shouldn't have been too tough.

2) I think they had a lot to do with being where they are now so absolutely.

Your turn again....you said you wanted Dorsey in 2016. You seem to think he'd have improved the team quickly. Do you just not enjoy having Garrett and Baker on the team?

 

[dtgold88]

Sashi did a good job of selecting Garrett, a pick that a toddler could have made. Please stop acting like this was some savvy move.

They traded up a few spots for Njoku, we'll see if it works out in the end. Can't see where that was actually necessary but OK. He has potential, but isn't there yet.

Wow, I'm losing it because I didn't acknowledge them trading up a few spots? Again, grow up.

Thank you Sashi. You did something damn near anyone with even slight knowledge of football could have done.

You are losing it because you think all he does is trade down when he did so a whopping 2 times and also traded UP once

And of course you diminish moves he made while making excuses for moves/players made/acquired by Dorsey.

You also seem to think no way Sashi could have helped out if he stayed. Never mind he tried to fix the line once in FA and added Zeitler/Tretter. In Dorsey's first chance there he added Hubbard. who did better?