Cheating: the poll!

[PatsFan2003]

Now that the verdict is in...which is the worst of all the scandals?

Why torture yourself...

 

[PatsFan2003]

I'm still going with Bountygate which I think is about as heinous as you can get in a sport.

 

[GNG]

Now that the verdict is in...The Patriots are officially cheaters.

 

[DutchBird]

80k don't spend their time deciphering what they mean, though.

Pats were filming and using it from previous match-ups of the same opponent to recognize the play coming in from the sideline. That is precisely where the competitive advantage gained comes from.

There were a number of allegations that - at the time - they were also using illegal radio signals/frequencies to talk to Brady during the seasons we know they were illegally taping. We were also told the tapes Goodell so conveniently destroyed upon receiving them were all the tapes collected. Yet when Goodell finally decided to talk to the person doing the taping years later, said person brought in eight additional tapes with evidence.

A (very) good observer is quick enough to decipher the signals sufficiently enough to be able to relay the pertinent info to the offense involved. Mind you, Mangini did - in his games - not introduce a completely new set of signals when facing the Patriots, but used three different sets (of which two were dummy) when playing them. The only reason to do so is if you are convinced (and Mangini referred to his stint with the Patriots as the reason why he did use dummy signals) if the signal stealing would be of use in that same game they were taping them.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Based on the results of the voting

We could probably remove the last 9 options

 

[black francis]

i

I'm still going with Bountygate which I think is about as heinous as you can get in a sport.

so football players dont actually try to hurt the other team? only the saints, that one year?

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

i


so football players dont actually try to hurt the other team? only the saints, that one year?

Well, when they get their enormous salary for trying to hurt the other players, that's okay...but when you add 500$ to it, that's wrong, just wrong!

 

[DutchBird]

i


so football players dont actually try to hurt the other team? only the saints, that one year?

Kimo v Oelhofen (IIRC) vs Carson Palmer would be one. Can remember a few blatant ones vs the Eagles by others as well (two in consecutive Championship games - both resulting in seriously injured players, and game changers).

The Saints might have gotten caught, but frankly I find it unlikely that numerous players did not cross the line willingly, and with at least tacit approval of fellow players and/or coaching staff.

 

[evolver115]

A (very) good observer is quick enough to decipher the signals sufficiently enough to be able to relay the pertinent info to the offense involved. Mind you, Mangini did - in his games - not introduce a completely new set of signals when facing the Patriots, but used three different sets (of which two were dummy) when playing them. The only reason to do so is if you are convinced (and Mangini referred to his stint with the Patriots as the reason why he did use dummy signals) if the signal stealing would be of use in that same game they were taping them.

And that is all you need to know about what Bill was up to with that information he was recording.

During the second world war, the English dumped a cadaver off the coast of Spain with false "top secret" documents attached to him about where the pending invasion would take place prior to the Normandy Invasion. These documents showed a different location of where the invasion was actually headed. The Spanish gov't retrieved the body and documents and promptly gave it to German intelligence. Thus the bait was taken. Not all that much different than what Mangini was attempting with three sets of signals. Throw off your enemy by supplying them fake information.

I think Belichick gives rookies a copy of Art of War when they show up for camp. Telling...

Bill Belichicks Army of History Buffs - WSJ

 

[PatsFan2003]

i


so football players dont actually try to hurt the other team? only the saints, that one year?

In an organized way with cash bonuses promoted within the organization? That's a significant new low to the first part which is yet another reminder of the ultra-competitiveness of the league.

 

[black francis]

Well, when they get their enormous salary for trying to hurt the other players, that's okay...but when you add 500$ to it, that's wrong, just wrong!

exactly

 

[PatsFan2003]

And that is all you need to know about what Bill was up to with that information he was recording.

During the second world war, the English dumped a cadaver off the coast of Spain with false "top secret" documents attached to him about where the pending invasion would take place prior to the Normandy Invasion. These documents showed a different location of where the invasion was actually headed. The Spanish gov't retrieved the body and documents and promptly gave it to German intelligence. Thus the bait was taken. Not all that much different than what Mangini was attempting with three sets of signals. Throw off your enemy by supplying them fake information.

I think Belichick gives rookies a copy of Art of War when they show up for camp. Telling...

Bill Belichicks Army of History Buffs - WSJ

And that's a negative?

 

[evolver115]

And that's a negative?

I mean, no not in a teaching sense. It's important to have a grasp of history because of what it could help you understand about the potential of the future. The point I'm making is(was) that Bill uses his love of military history in the literal sense in that he's employing counter-intelligence to win football games. That's some diabolical shit.

 

[PatsFan2003]

Kimo v Oelhofen (IIRC) vs Carson Palmer would be one. Can remember a few blatant ones vs the Eagles by others as well (two in consecutive Championship games - both resulting in seriously injured players, and game changers).

The Saints might have gotten caught, but frankly I find it unlikely that numerous players did not cross the line willingly, and with at least tacit approval of fellow players and/or coaching staff.

Oh I get it the old "Everyone does it" defense. I thought that wasn't a legitimate excuse or does this just apply to Belichick and the Patriots....

Again!

 

[black francis]

Oh I get it the old "Everyone does it" defense. I thought that wasn't a legitimate excuse or does this just apply to Belichick and the Patriots....

Again!

"everybody obstructs justice"

 

[PatsFan2003]

I mean, no not in a teaching sense. It's important to have a grasp of history because of what it could help you understand about the potential of the future. The point I'm making is that Bill uses his love of military history in the literal sense in that he's employing counter-intelligence to win football games. That's some diabolical shit.

I couldn't disagree more. So what. Again gaining intelligence is an accepted part of the game only that once again Belichick does it better.

The problem with Spygate wasn't that he was caught spying for defensive signals which is a pretty common practice but that he filmed it illegally beyond current methods. That was the crime which he certainly got punished for.

 

[PatsFan2003]

"everybody obstructs justice"

A different issue entirely, to rationalize that paying beer money into a pool by the coaching staff promote the hurting of players is somehow ok or less egregious than deflating footballs.

Still doesn't change my opinion on Bountygate.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

id slow down and read it again.

Your thread title is about cheating and your poll then expands everything to scandals. Perhaps we can get a mod to edit.

 

[evolver115]

I couldn't disagree more. So what. Again gaining intelligence is an accepted part of the game only that once again Belichick does it better.

The problem with Spygate wasn't that he was caught spying for defensive signals which is a pretty common practice but that he filmed it illegally beyond current methods. That was the crime which he certainly got punished for.

To each their own. I wouldn't tell you that your opinion is wrong. I personally believe that breaking down information like what Spygate was all about is taking things too far.

A group of Poles in 1939 were busy trying to recreate the German enigma machine that all high level german correspondence was passed through to different commands around Europe. The Poles managed to smuggle their work out of Poland after the invasion, and eventually got it to the English gov't. This effort was paramount to the English eventually cracking the enigma code. The information that they gathered through this counter-intelligence breakthrough is thought to be incalculable.

Mind you, this was used to combat an enemy who was trying to create a facist continent of zero freedom and absolute persecution. Quite a bit different than trying to win a football game, wouldn't u say?

 

[PatsFan2003]

To each their own. I wouldn't tell you that your opinion is wrong. I personally believe that breaking down information like what Spygate was all about is taking things too far.

A group of Poles in 1939 were busy trying to recreate the German enigma machine that all high level german correspondence was passed through to different commands around Europe. The Poles managed to smuggle their work out of Poland after the invasion, and eventually got it to the English gov't. This effort was paramount to the English eventually cracking the enigma code. The information that they gathered through this counter-intelligence breakthrough is thought to be incalculable.

Mind you, this was used to combat an enemy who was trying to create a facist continent of zero freedom and absolute persecution. Quite a bit different than trying to win a football game, wouldn't u say?

Yeah we will disagree. It's that competitive a sport. I think it speaks volume positively of Belichick. The best coaches in NFL history were always ahead of the game.

Where he royally screwed up was doing it illegally after being warned by the NFL. Absolute arrogance there.