Celtics '20'21 - The Young and the Restless

[Gman]

Im criticizing the search more than the guy himself

when you weed out half the pool for non basketball reasons, it’s a bad search and you deserve to have it go horribly wrong

they are making themselves really hard to root for with 90s clippers like trades and terrible virtue signaling

Meh.

Kemba is clearly on the downside of his career, and furthermore unreliable for health reasons... and Udoka has a perfectly good resume for a younger coach.

Beyond that... there is no point in arguing too much, as only the future will tell the tale.

 

[The Q]

Jesus... that guy gets paid to analyze the NBA?

Half the country would rather be self righteous than actually right…and 90%+ of the NBA falls into that area

 

[The Q]

Meh.

Kemba is clearly on the downside of his career, and furthermore unreliable for health reasons... and Udoka has a perfectly good resume for a younger coach.

Beyond that... there is no point in arguing too much, as only the future will tell the tale.

He has a hc worthy resume

no question about it

but again, what does he have that Carlisle hasn’t already proven?

i listed a few other guys who were hcs who have impressive track records who didn’t get an interview solely due to skin color

the good news for udoka is he gets most of the core back after an everything that could go wrong did go wrong season.

he will get a nice dead cats bounce just from normalcy

 

[redseat]

I'm fine with Udoka... he has a great background of coaches he has worked with.

Honestly don't know anything about him except Tatum and co wanted him so that's good enough in my book

 

[Gman]

He has a hc worthy resume

no question about it

but again, what does he have that Carlisle hasn’t already proven?

i listed a few other guys who were hcs who have impressive track records who didn’t get an interview solely due to skin color

the good news for udoka is he gets most of the core back after an everything that could go wrong did go wrong season.

he will get a nice dead cats bounce just from normalcy

I guess our difference of opinion amounts mostly to...

- You think age and skin color are irrelevant and/or bad factors to add into the hiring process for a NBA head coach.

- I think age and skin color are relevant and/or fair factors to add into the hiring process for a NBA head coach.

---------

The Celtics got a younger team, with a good amount of guys that need developing... furthermore, a number of our players (especially our best players) are 'socially conscious' and would likely appreciate the Celtics hiring a coach of color...

... these are relevant and meaningful considerations, like it or not.

Now, if the C's hired a bum just because he was young and black... I'd be more likely to agree with you. But they didn't. They hired a well-respected candidate who has a ton of experience under great mentor coaches. So I'm fine here.

 

[The Q]

I guess our difference of opinion amounts mostly to...

- You think age and skin color are irrelevant and/or bad factors to add into the hiring process for a NBA head coach.

- I think age and skin color are relevant and/or fair factors to add into the hiring process for a NBA head coach.

---------

The Celtics got a younger team, with a good amount of guys that need developing... furthermore, a number of our players (especially our best players) are 'socially conscious' and would likely appreciate the Celtics hiring a coach of color...

... these are relevant and meaningful considerations, like it or not.

Now, if the C's hired a bum just because he was young and black... I'd be more likely to agree with you. But they didn't. They hired a well-respected candidate who has a ton of experience under great mentor coaches. So I'm fine here.

now use that logic for a baseball team saying they will only interview white guys for their manager position….

 

[Gman]

now use that logic for a baseball team saying they will only interview white guys for their manager position….

It's not a great comparison, because young white players tend not to care about such things as the skin color of their coach.... whereas young black players are much more likely to care about that issue.

Again: this is "like it or not", real world stuff I'm talking here. You do live in the real world, no?

 

[The Q]

It's not a great comparison, because young white players tend not to care about such things as the color of their coach.... whereas young black players care much more about that issue.

Again: this is "like it or not", real world stuff I'm talking here. You do live in the real world, no?

supporting player racism….yeah that sounds about where we are in Society

 

[The Q]

It's not a great comparison, because young white players tend not to care about such things as the skin color of their coach.... whereas young black players are much more likely to care about that issue.

Again: this is "like it or not", real world stuff I'm talking here. You do live in the real world, no?

but it is a good comparison.

it’s the exact same logic

you’re just supporting actual racism (instead of the fake racism perpetrated by liberals and the msm)

 

[Gman]

... agree to disagree, @The Q

 

[Iggloo]

Udoka is kind of a bold hire IMO. Well respected young guy and could be a home run, but this is a pretty big jump for him.

Suggesting it is somehow racist is dumb. The guy has put in time under Popovich and Brown. I have a lot more questions about teams that hire former star players like Nash than something like this.

Interesting detail on Udoka is that he is engaged to Nia Long, the actress, who is like 10 years older than him.

 

[The Q]

... agree to disagree, @The Q

no. There’s no disagreeing

unless you just deny the facts and logic

it’s the same concept

but one side is openly racist and you’re just accepting it

 

[trojanfan12]

no. There’s no disagreeing

unless you just deny the facts and logic

it’s the same concept

but one side is openly racist and you’re just accepting it

I think racist is the wrong word here and that's part of the problem.

I don't see it as necessarily racist to look to hire a qualified black coach to coach a roster that is overwhelmingly filled with black players. I don't know how heavily the Celtics weighed his race in their consideration. But it would only make sense to strongly consider a qualified young black coach when you have a roster filled with young black players.

If they hired a guy with no experience or a poor track record, just because he's black, that would be racist because he was being hired on skin color alone. This sounds more like they wanted a good young coach, but favored a good young black coach as a better fit for their roster. That. I don't consider to be racist because it's just smart hiring to bring in someone that can relate most easily to your roster.

 

[The Q]

I think racist is the wrong word here and that's part of the problem.

I don't see it as necessarily racist to look to hire a qualified black coach to coach a roster that is overwhelmingly filled with black players. I don't know how heavily the Celtics weighed his race in their consideration. But it would only make sense to strongly consider a qualified young black coach when you have a roster filled with young black players.

If they hired a guy with no experience or a poor track record, just because he's black, that would be racist because he was being hired on skin color alone. This sounds more like they wanted a good young coach, but favored a good young black coach as a better fit for their roster. That. I don't consider to be racist because it's just smart hiring to bring in someone that can relate most easily to your roster.

bot hiring someone more qualified solely because of their race is…what exactly?

you’re right, they can’t relate to Carlisle, he’s an NBA champion as both a player and a coach. That must be why they can’t relate to him.

this isn’t the rockets or Cleveland who are young and rebuilding

they think this team can contend

 

[Gman]

no. There’s no disagreeing

unless you just deny the facts and logic

it’s the same concept

but one side is openly racist and you’re just accepting it

Ah, so we're not disagreeing unless one of us is denying facts and logic... but because I'm denying facts and logic...



Listen, Q... first of all, we disagree and that's ok... you can have the final word and/or take jabs at me if you want to... I'm a big boy, I can take it...

... but you're not going deep enough here (IMO, of course).

I teach high school for a living. Having different voices in the school building matters. Not all kids notice, but many do... and to some they notice a lot. Not just to check off a box on a form, either... they want to see / relate to someone like them, in a world where race and gender matter (like it or not).

The thing is... a NBA basketball team is much less diverse than a typical public school classroom (therefore it's much more likely that a body of NBA players are gonna be sensitive to what we're talking about here). Furthermore, in the year 2021, race issues in particular are magnified (again: like it or not).

Finally, taking into consideration the thoughts and feelings of the players is not necessarily a bad or wrong (or racist) thing to do. It might be bad or wrong or racist, but you can't just assume it is... and IMO you're doing a lot of ASSuming.

Finally finally... I teach AP Government and my classes do a great debate on these issues at one point during the semester... technically, it's "race-conscious interpretation of the Constitution" versus "color blind interpretation of the Constitution"... but essentially what you and I are talking about is the underlying issue... and IMO you are not wrong per se as you are not giving enough respect to the depth and richness of this debate.

 

[The Q]

Ah, so we're not disagreeing unless one of us is denying facts and logic... but because I'm denying facts and logic...



Listen, Q... first of all, we disagree and that's ok... you can have the final word and/or take jabs at me if you want to... I'm a big boy, I can take it...

... but you're not going deep enough here (IMO, of course).

I teach high school for a living. Having different voices in the school building matters. Not all kids notice, but many do... and to some they notice a lot. Not just to check off a box on a form, either... they want to see / relate to someone like them, in a world where race and gender matter (like it or not).

The thing is... a NBA basketball team is much less diverse than a typical public school classroom (therefore it's much more likely that a body of NBA players are gonna be sensitive to what we're talking about here). Furthermore, in the year 2021, race issues in particular are magnified (again: like it or not).

Finally, taking into consideration the thoughts and feelings of the players is not necessarily a bad or wrong (or racist) thing to do. It might be bad or wrong or racist, but you can't just assume it is... and IMO you're doing a lot of ASSuming.

Finally finally... I teach AP Government and my classes do a great debate on these issues at one point during the semester... technically, it's "race-conscious interpretation of the Constitution" versus "color blind interpretation of the Constitution"... but essentially what you and I are talking about is the underlying issue... and IMO you are not wrong per se as you are not giving enough respect to the depth and richness of this debate.

If you can switch it to another race and it’s racist, it’s racist for that race as well.

there’s no exclusivity on racism

 

[shopson67]

but Carlisle is

Signing with Indiana

 

[shopson67]

He has a hc worthy resume

no question about it

but again, what does he have that Carlisle hasn’t already proven?

i listed a few other guys who were hcs who have impressive track records who didn’t get an interview solely due to skin color

the good news for udoka is he gets most of the core back after an everything that could go wrong did go wrong season.

he will get a nice dead cats bounce just from normalcy

For one, Udoka hasn't been fired yet.

Who says Carlisle was even interested? He's reportedly going back to Indiana.

 

[The Q]

Udoka being able to pull hardy from the spurs is a huge get for the bench imo.

I read he wasn’t considered for a lot of jobs because he was considered pops successor.

so this is an unexpected good surprise

 

[tlance]

bot hiring someone more qualified solely because of their race is…what exactly?

you’re right, they can’t relate to Carlisle, he’s an NBA champion as both a player and a coach. That must be why they can’t relate to him.

this isn’t the rockets or Cleveland who are young and rebuilding

they think this team can contend

Ability to relate to players is huge for an NBA coach. It might actually be the single most important thing.

Rick Carlisle is a very good coach, but he has also struggled to get along with some of the higher profile black stars he has coached in the past (at least Rondo).

If Celtics brass believe Udoka will relate better to their players, it is 100% the right hire.

That is not “racist” in any way.