Celtics '20'21 - The Young and the Restless

[chappee11]

He made some very good draft picks but ultimately failed to build a good overall roster. The talent in Boston got worse and that was entirely his fault. Clearly the organization has sided with Stevens it seems.

Disagree. He built some really strong rosters that made deep playoff runs. Injuries killed this team for years. Not a great excuse, but it is the truth.

 

[chappee11]

Did Ainge draft well? He did well with his Number 1 over all and No. 4 overall picks certainly with Brown and Tatum. Smart was a pretty good pick and Rozier.

But I'm not sure that he's done that great otherwise. Maybe if they had kept Thybulle and Bane, things would look differently.

Exactly. When Ainge got a top pick he didn’t miss. I’m sure some of his later picks didn’t pan out, but they rarely do. I’m not sure who he could have drafted that he missed. And nobody bats .1000 anyway.

Ainge is the architect of the Garnett-Allen-Pierce Title team. He almost put another title contender along the way. I’d give him a solid “A” overall for his performance. I get it that it’s time to move on, though.

 

[Iggloo]

He did build some strong rosters--a few years ago--but his more recent moves and draft picks didn't work as well. Carsen Edwards over Matisse Thybulle--shit like that adds up over time.

He did fleece Philly on the Markelle Fultz trade and made a lot of other savvy moves, but then seemed to lose his way.

 

[trojanfan12]

Hard to blame Ainge at all. He did the best he could with the knowledge that marquee free agents never want to go to Boston.

Ainge drafted well. Ainge traded well. But it isn’t enough in a league that really is dictated by superstars.

That's where I think he squandered the assets and why he just needed to set his sights on someone and go all in. Instead, he basically got players who are good enough to keep them in the playoffs every year and even advance a round or 2 when healthy, but not enough to win a title.

Imo, he should have done like the Raptors with Kyrie and traded for a star who could get them over the top, Worst case, they possibly get a title run and the guy walks. Best case, they possibly get a title run and he stays for a few more.

Sometimes, you just have to push all of your chips to the middle of the table and see what happens. Ainge didn't do that.

 

[The Q]

He did build some strong rosters--a few years ago--but his more recent moves and draft picks didn't work as well. Carsen Edwards over Matisse Thybulle--shit like that adds up over time.

He did fleece Philly on the Markelle Fultz trade and made a lot of other savvy moves, but then seemed to lose his way.

even then that was a historically low return to move down.

 

[chappee11]

That's where I think he squandered the assets and why he just needed to set his sights on someone and go all in. Instead, he basically got players who are good enough to keep them in the playoffs every year and even advance a round or 2 when healthy, but not enough to win a title.

Imo, he should have done like the Raptors with Kyrie and traded for a star who could get them over the top, Worst case, they possibly get a title run and the guy walks. Best case, they possibly get a title run and he stays for a few more.

Sometimes, you just have to push all of your chips to the middle of the table and see what happens. Ainge didn't do that.

He DID push those chips to the center of the table on Kyrie and it didn’t work. Kyrie behaved like a petulant child with no interest in winning. He also was hurt all the time.

Ainge tried with Anthony Davis, too, but he had no interest in going to Boston. That’s the biggest obstacle to building a winner in Boston. None of the really elite talent ever wants to play there.

 

[flyerhawk]

He did build some strong rosters--a few years ago--but his more recent moves and draft picks didn't work as well. Carsen Edwards over Matisse Thybulle--shit like that adds up over time.

He did fleece Philly on the Markelle Fultz trade and made a lot of other savvy moves, but then seemed to lose his way.

Hindsight is always 20/20 but that Fultz trade was a very fortunate situation for the Celtics. At the time, the Sixers really didn't know what they had with Simmons. But the team had Joel, Saric, Covington, Redick, and Simmons. They had plenty of size. But they didn't have a lot of ball handlers that could shoot. So Tatum really seemed like a tough fit for the Sixers and Fultz made perfect sense.

Ultimately the Celtics got the guy they wanted either way and added Romeo Langford for their troubles. The Sixers were likely doomed because they were going to take either Fultz and/or Ball and neither has made much impact in the NBA.

 

[flyerhawk]

even then that was a historically low return to move down.

Meh. The Sixers weren't going to give up the farm to move up 2 spots. How much did it really matter to them to ensure they got Fultz over Ball? And it's not like there were other suitors looking to move up.

If Ainge asks for more that deal likely falls through.

 

[Iggloo]

Oh man this is funny as hell! He has the right accent!

 

[trojanfan12]

He DID push those chips to the center of the table on Kyrie and it didn’t work. Kyrie behaved like a petulant child with no interest in winning. He also was hurt all the time.

Ainge tried with Anthony Davis, too, but he had no interest in going to Boston. That’s the biggest obstacle to building a winner in Boston. None of the really elite talent ever wants to play there.

That's what I'm saying though, they probably should start functioning like a small market team and go all in when they have the chance. Even if it means trading for a 1 year rental that can get them a title run. They could have beaten the Lakers offer for AD, but Ainge was afraid AD would just leave after the season. Even if he did, they still would potentially be hanging the banner the Lakers got.

 

[chappee11]

That's what I'm saying though, they probably should start functioning like a small market team and go all in when they have the chance. Even if it means trading for a 1 year rental that can get them a title run. They could have beaten the Lakers offer for AD, but Ainge was afraid AD would just leave after the season. Even if he did, they still would potentially be hanging the banner the Lakers got.

Yeah, honestly, I don’t regret that one at all. Davis WOULD have left and they would have only had 1 shot to win it all. If they whiffed, they would have squandered a ton of assets for nothing. Ainge is a gambler, but that would have been too much of a gamble IMO.

 

[The Q]

That's what I'm saying though, they probably should start functioning like a small market team and go all in when they have the chance. Even if it means trading for a 1 year rental that can get them a title run. They could have beaten the Lakers offer for AD, but Ainge was afraid AD would just leave after the season. Even if he did, they still would potentially be hanging the banner the Lakers got.

yeah Danny operates like the dodgers looking for long term relevancy.

but that costs you a few shorter windows for sure.

 

[redseat]

Come on Kevin Garnett.. You know you want to coach!

 

[trojanfan12]

yeah Danny operates like the dodgers looking for long term relevancy.

but that costs you a few shorter windows for sure.

That's a really good comparison. The Dodgers built up their farm system rather than just throwing big money around. Then, made the big signings to fill holes. It has them set up well for the future, but may well have cost them a short window or 2.

That works when it's a team/city where players want to play/live. If Ainge was hearing from credible folks that top players just don't want to go there...then it was on him to change his tactics, imo.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah, honestly, I don’t regret that one at all. Davis WOULD have left and they would have only had 1 shot to win it all. If they whiffed, they would have squandered a ton of assets for nothing. Ainge is a gambler, but that would have been too much of a gamble IMO.

Yeah, AD may not be the best example because he's with Klutch and the only question about him going to the Lakers was whether it would be via trade or FA.

But imo, the larger point still stands that if he's hearing that top FA's don't want to play there, then he should have targeted someone and gone all in.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Is Brad going to be relieved of coaching duties or is he doing double duty?

 

[chappee11]

That's a really good comparison. The Dodgers built up their farm system rather than just throwing big money around. Then, made the big signings to fill holes. It has them set up well for the future, but may well have cost them a short window or 2.

That works when it's a team/city where players want to play/live. If Ainge was hearing from credible folks that top players just don't want to go there...then it was on him to change his tactics, imo.

Lol. This isn’t something that Ainge is “hearing from credible folks”. This is a fact. Can you name the last marquee free agent who signed with the Celtics? That is NOT considered a top tier free agent destination. And it’s not something Ainge could change, either. He just always had to work around that.

 

[The Q]

Lol. This isn’t something that Ainge is “hearing from credible folks”. This is a fact. Can you name the last marquee free agent who signed with the Celtics? That is NOT considered a top tier free agent destination. And it’s not something Ainge could change, either. He just always had to work around that.

horford and Hayward.

 

[chappee11]

Yeah, AD may not be the best example because he's with Klutch and the only question about him going to the Lakers was whether it would be via trade or FA.

But imo, the larger point still stands that if he's hearing that top FA's don't want to play there, then he should have targeted someone and gone all in.

I don’t know what you have in mind. He tried it with Kyrie and it didn’t work. He passed on trying with Davis and I think that was the right call. Other than that?? Not sure what other chances he really had.

 

[chappee11]

horford and Hayward.

Riiiiiiiigghht. Big time marquee talent there.