Cano to Seattle?

[BigDDude]

..and they're not that adamant about 189MM, they already have permission from Hal to go over if they need to.

I hope he and Cashman don't fall all over themselves, as they continue to backtrack from a figure that started out pretty firm several months ago.

 

[StanMarsh51]

FIFY and now it answers itself.

So if they signed Cano instead of Ellsbury, they wouldn't have been able to sign Beltran and McCann?

What's the difference in per year averages between Cano and Ellsbury? $3-4 million?

It's not as if Cano's making $28M a season and Ellsbury's making $14M so you could have a great player to fill in that salary difference. Both are making between $20-25M.

 

[$500 Million]

So if they signed Cano instead of Ellsbury, they wouldn't have been able to sign Beltran and McCann?

What's the difference in per year averages between Cano and Ellsbury? $3-4 million?

It's a two for one, they let Cano go and signed two players with the money they would have spent on one.

They have a better lineup today than they did at the end of the year and they're not done yet. That's all that matters.

 

[StanMarsh51]

It's a two for one, they let Cano go and signed two players with the money they would have spent on one.

They have a better lineup today than they did at the end of the year and they're not done yet. That's all that matters.

Cano's making $24M annually and Ellsbury makes just under $22.

For 2014 (and also a few years down the line) purposes, it's not a 2-for-1. You can still have Cano, Beltran, and McCann for just $2 million/year more than you can have Ellsbury, Beltran, and McCann for.

 

[$500 Million]

Cano's making $24M annually and Ellsbury makes just under $22.

For 2014 (and also a few years down the line) purposes, it's not a 2-for-1. You can still have Cano, Beltran, and McCann.

It is most definitely a two for one, because there is no way in the world that the Yankees would have ever given Cano (or anyone) a 10 year contract, therefore Cano coming back was never even a possibility, just like Ellsbury going back to Boston was never going to happen. Someone was bound to go ape shit and give Cano whatever he wanted, and they did.

This is how bad 10 year deals are, Arod's contract is bad enough that the Yankees said "fuck it" when it came to either giving Cano, the best second baseman in the game 10 years or letting him go. I'm going to defer to their experience on that size contract. Only they and the Rangers know that pain.

 

[StanMarsh51]

It is most definitely a two for one, because there is no way in the world that the Yankees would have ever given Cano (or anyone) a 10 year contract, therefore Cano coming back was never even a possibility, just like Ellsbury going back to Boston was never going to happen. Someone was bound to go ape shit and give Cano whatever he wanted, and they did.

This is how bad 10 year deals are, Arod's contract is bad enough that the Yankees said "fuck it" when it came to either giving Cano, the best second baseman in the game 10 years or letting him go. I'm going to defer to their experience on that size contract. Only they and the Rangers know that pain.

I thought the Yankees didn't care about money? Now they do just 10 minutes later?

 

[BigDDude]

It's official. Cano is now signed, sealed, and delivered to Seattle.

Now, go back to arguing among yourselves, while I go slink off and be ignored.....

 

[$500 Million]

I thought the Yankees didn't care about money? Now they do just 10 minutes later?

Seriously?


YEARS

 

[StanMarsh51]

Seriously?


YEARS

And I'd rather have Cano over 10 yrs than Ellsbury for 7 yrs, although neither are ideal. Given the trends, Cano's likely age better than Ellsbury.

Speedsters tend to decline quite a bit in their 30s, and there's a long line of guys that show that in their mid 30s, steals of those types of players usually decline to somewhere around 1/2 of what they were in their primes. And for many of them, when speed goes, other parts of their games start to suffer.

In a few years if Ellsbury's speed starts to go south and is at best a 20-25 steal guy whose defense declines as well (since his speed is a big part of his defense), he'd be useless considering he doesn't hit for power (outside of 1 year) and he's not an OBP machine. Will anyone be happy if he's having seasons like Ichiro's 2011-2013 stretch for the last 3 or so years of his deal?

 

[$500 Million]

And I'd rather have Cano over 10 yrs than Ellsbury for 7 yrs, although neither are ideal.

Speedsters tend to decline quite a bit in their 30s, and there's a long line of guys that show that in their mid 30s, steals of those types of players usually decline to somewhere around 1/2 of what they were in their primes. And for many of them, when speed goes, other parts of their games start to suffer.

In a few years if Ellsbury's speed starts to go south and is at best a 20-25 steal guy whose defense declines as well (since his speed is a big part of his defense), he'd be useless considering he doesn't hit for power (outside of 1 year) and he's not an OBP machine. Will anyone be happy if he's having seasons like Ichiro's 2011-2013 stretch for the last 3 or so years of his deal?

7 years is what the market is for him so that’s what he gets, same with Choo, he’ll get 7 for no other reason than because Ellsbury did. All of these teams are being forced into longer contracts than they would prefer, like the Mets yesterday with Colon. It is what it is, it’s up to the teams to draw the line, and they Yankees line apparently is now at 7-8 years. You go over that, you beat the Yankees. Also, don’t forget that the Yankees offered Cano a higher AAV than Seattle did, it was all about the years, not the money.

 

[StanMarsh51]

7 years is what the market is for him so that’s what he gets, same with Choo, he’ll get 7 for no other reason than because Ellsbury did. All of these teams are being forced into longer contracts than they would prefer, like the Mets yesterday with Colon. It is what it is, it’s up to the teams to draw the line, and they Yankees line apparently is now at 7-8 years. You go over that, you beat the Yankees. Also, don’t forget that the Yankees offered Cano a higher AAV than Seattle did, it was all about the years, not the money.

How do we know that 7 yrs was the market for Ellsbury? Shoot, the Giants signed a comparable player (value-wise) in Hunter Pence to 5 yrs just a few weeks before, so maybe it was just the Yankees grossly overbidding? I don't think Ellsbury is 2 more years and $60M better than Pence, contract-wise.

A player like Ellsbury should be getting at best is a 5 yr, $100M type contract.

 

[$500 Million]

How do we know that 7 yrs was the market for Ellsbury? Shoot, the Giants signed a comparable player (value-wise) in Hunter Pence to 5 yrs just a few weeks before, so maybe it was just the Yankees grossly overbidding? I don't think Ellsbury is 2 more years and $60M better than Pence, contract-wise.

A player like Ellsbury should be getting at best is a 5 yr, $100M type contract.

We know that’s the market because that’s what he got. lol When the Yankees started with Ellsbury I’m sure they started where you and I and everyone else thought the fair contract was (4-5 and 100 MM) and then it went up from there. Then Cano’s demands came in (“respond with $235 or don’t respond at all”) and they realized that they were never going to get Cano back so they got aggressive and covered their asses by getting Ellsbury and Beltran. The market on Cano affected the market on Ellsbury and so on and so on.

 

[Podunkparte]

Pete Rose's take on the Can signing.

"He [Jay Z] got him a big raise, but he got him an extra 30-day vacation -- and it's called October," Rose said.

Ouch babe........

Coming from a guy with a lifetime vacation from the game of baseball...

 

[da55bums]

The Mariners introduced their new $240 million man at a press conference on Thursday afternoon. Robinson Cano's ten-year contract was made official and he spoke to the media alongside GM Jack Zduriencik and manager Lloyd McClendon at Safeco Field.
The majority of the press conference was the usual stuff -- I'm excited to be here, can't wait to get started, etc. -- but there was one answer that really stuck out:
"The Yankees' best offer to Cano was a seven-year, $175 million contract, a whopping $65 million shy of Seattle's offer. New York reportedly held a hard line during negotations and increased their offer only $10 million or so throughout the entire the process.
Given the Yankees' spending this winter and over the last 50 years or so, I guess I can understand why Cano felt disrespected. He's been their best player for several years and now they decided to get tough during negotations? It sounds silly to say a $175 million contract offer is disrespectful, but I kind of understand it. The Yankees held a hard line with Cano at a time when they don't hold many hard lines in general."

-- This coming from a guy "demanding" a $300 million deal..."respected"...lol

 

[redseat]

How does it tell you that?? Both contracts were insane, but cano's was 100 mil more...

They valued Ellsbury more than Cano. If they really wanted to keep Cano as a Yankee they would have

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

They valued Ellsbury more than Cano. If they really wanted to keep Cano as a Yankee they would have

Which isn't a smart move. One stays healthy and one can't.

 

[Nyfan1980]

They valued Ellsbury more than Cano. If they really wanted to keep Cano as a Yankee they would have

They offered Cano more... And in terms of WAR, according to fangraphs both players were pretty close last season.

Cano had a 6.0 and Ellsbury had a 5.8.

They gave Cano a huge offer, $25 mil per year. But weren't willing to give a 31 year old player a 10 year contract, they are against that since the A-Rod deal and league round it never works out when you give a 30+ year old player a 10 year contract. Look at Albert Pujols and he was a WAY better hitter than Cano. And Cano is going to where hitters go to die.

 

[redseat]

They offered Cano more... And in terms of WAR, according to fangraphs both players were pretty close last season.

Cano had a 6.0 and Ellsbury had a 5.8.

They gave Cano a huge offer, $25 mil per year. But weren't willing to give a 31 year old player a 10 year contract, they are against that since the A-Rod deal and league round it never works out when you give a 30+ year old player a 10 year contract. Look at Albert Pujols and he was a WAY better hitter than Cano. And Cano is going to where hitters go to die.

DAMN looking at it like that then yes smart move by the Yankees. Though Roberts is no where near the caliber player Cano is

 

[BigDDude]

DAMN looking at it like that then yes smart move by the Yankees. Though Roberts is no where near the caliber player Cano is

It will be interesting to see if Roberts can stay healthy all year. In fact, it would not surprise me at all if he only started 4 games a week to help insure this.

 

[StanMarsh51]

They offered Cano more... And in terms of WAR, according to fangraphs both players were pretty close last season.

Cano had a 6.0 and Ellsbury had a 5.8.

They gave Cano a huge offer, $25 mil per year. But weren't willing to give a 31 year old player a 10 year contract, they are against that since the A-Rod deal and league round it never works out when you give a 30+ year old player a 10 year contract. Look at Albert Pujols and he was a WAY better hitter than Cano. And Cano is going to where hitters go to die.

I still need to read up on what the differences b/w fangraphs WAR and baseballreference WAR is, but baseballreference WAR by comparison has Cano at 7.6 and Ellsbury at 5.8.

I know Cano got more years and dollars than Ellsbury, but I honestly don't think Ellsbury will age well, or at least age worse than Cano will.

When you look at how speedsters perform in their mid 30s to their earlier years (I did this in another thread looking at the steals trend for a bunch of guys in recent years who stole many bases in their careers), the steals are usually 1/2 of what they used to be, and obviously with the reduced speed will come a reduction in OBP, defensive range, runs. With Ellsbury, once his speed starts to go, what value will he have on the team? He's not a high OBP guy, nor a power guy unless outside of that 1 year he hit 30+, and once his speed goes he'll be a LFer.