Calvin will be 30 years old week 3.

[RobBase]

I don't think there is a GM in the league who could trade that contract.

Pretty much why I question whether it was even in the cards. Too old for that kind of money. But Mayhew loves those WRs

 

[gandydancer]

Obviously they should have traded him if it meant keeping Suh. Maybe that wasn't an option.

Don't think it was. Still had dead money due either way... I may be wrong, Meow may answer it. I am thinking all the dead money accelerates after that trade. So his cap hit would of been even hire I believe.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Why put off a good thing? Let's get this albatross off the neck of the cap now.

I absolutely agree. I would rather have additional picks this year and a ton of cap space next year. If we want to run the ball more then we need to get o-line and a top RB. If you accomplish that then CJ's absence becomes less important.

I don't think there is a GM in the league who could trade that contract.

Not as hard as you might think. All the dead $ his contract carries is eaten up by us this year. The acquiring team only gets his salary. It's still ridiculous and amounts to a 5yr/$80m contract but easy to restructure and in CJ's best interest to do so. If he isn't traded and ends up being cut nobody is going to claim him and accept the remainder of that contract. His agent knows that. The second highest paid WR's are the franchise tag guys in Thomas and Bryant. Under contract is Mike Wallace at $12m and its actually CJ's outrageous $16.2m avg that pushes that tag number up so far.

If he's traded its in his best interest to redo his deal. Easy to get done IMO and keep him as the highest paid WR at $13m/avg. 4yr/$52m but guarantee $27m of it. That's a huge deal for him.

Your most likely trade candidates would be someone like the Raiders or Jets. They have plenty of cap space so all they do is reverse the typical way a contract is written by paying him larger amounts in the first two years and much lesser amounts in the final two years. He can actually sign a smaller average contract and get paid the same for the next three years. Everybody wins in this scenario. His agent would jump all over that because his client isn't going to get paid that otherwise, and certainly not with that guaranteed amount.

It's actually a very easy contract to do. $18m signing bonus spread over only two years. Salaries of $9m in year one and two. The guaranteed amount is actually completed after only that first year. In the third year its just a salary of $9m. He gets paid every dollar of the next three years of his current deal. In the fourth year he has nothing more than a $7m salary. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

 

[broncosmitty]

calvin isnt the issue its that garbage qb ya got

This is not my Alt.

 

[Thruthefog]

I absolutely agree. I would rather have additional picks this year and a ton of cap space next year. If we want to run the ball more then we need to get o-line and a top RB. If you accomplish that then CJ's absence becomes less important.



Not as hard as you might think. All the dead $ his contract carries is eaten up by us this year. The acquiring team only gets his salary. It's still ridiculous and amounts to a 5yr/$80m contract but easy to restructure and in CJ's best interest to do so. If he isn't traded and ends up being cut nobody is going to claim him and accept the remainder of that contract. His agent knows that. The second highest paid WR's are the franchise tag guys in Thomas and Bryant. Under contract is Mike Wallace at $12m and its actually CJ's outrageous $16.2m avg that pushes that tag number up so far.

If he's traded its in his best interest to redo his deal. Easy to get done IMO and keep him as the highest paid WR at $13m/avg. 4yr/$52m but guarantee $27m of it. That's a huge deal for him.

Your most likely trade candidates would be someone like the Raiders or Jets. They have plenty of cap space so all they do is reverse the typical way a contract is written by paying him larger amounts in the first two years and much lesser amounts in the final two years. He can actually sign a smaller average contract and get paid the same for the next three years. Everybody wins in this scenario. His agent would jump all over that because his client isn't going to get paid that otherwise, and certainly not with that guaranteed amount.

It's actually a very easy contract to do. $18m signing bonus spread over only two years. Salaries of $9m in year one and two. The guaranteed amount is actually completed after only that first year. In the third year its just a salary of $9m. He gets paid every dollar of the next three years of his current deal. In the fourth year he has nothing more than a $7m salary. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

I could get excited about that if it wasn't the clown show in charge of all those picks and cap space.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Don't think it was. Still had dead money due either way... I may be wrong, Meow may answer it. I am thinking all the dead money accelerates after that trade. So his cap hit would of been even hire I believe.

Yes it does. Trading him this year actually costs us a little more than $400k.

I havent done the numbers yet on 2016 but if you trade him now, cut Tulloch and Pettigrew next offseason, all the current dead $ is then gone, you are likely to be looking at somewhere in the area of around $45-50m or so in cap space.

Lock down our own guys with extensions right now, those are easily structured where they don't effect cap numbers until next year. Our cap problems should be forever gone, younger players we need are locked up long term, we get extra pick(s) from the trade that can be used to fill the holes we have right now that are critical to our success this year based on the offense we intend to run, and still have plenty of $ left to be an active player in FA next year.

Help me understand why so many out there are saying that Suh by himself wasn't such a difference maker but CJ in our current offense is? Cause I am baffled by that thinking.

 

[Thruthefog]

Help me understand why so many out there are saying that Suh by himself wasn't such a difference maker but CJ in our current offense is? Cause I am baffled by that thinking.

It's the ooooooh aaaaaah factor.

Suh was just a boring defensive interior lineman.

But CJ? He makes you go ooooooh and aaaaaah.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

It's the ooooooh aaaaaah factor.

Suh was just a boring defensive interior lineman.

But CJ? He makes you go ooooooh and aaaaaah.

I saw Suh making opposing players go ughhh and ouchhh. That's the Don't Give Me The Damn Ball Cause I Don't Want To Go Near Him Again factor.

Although CJ is probably going to have a huge year because we should be throwing quite a bit playing from behind.

 

[Old Lion]

One thing doesn't have anything to do w the other. Are all men your age in the same shape as you?

Other factors are in play here, including injuries, wear and tear etc...

Detroit Lions | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

Detroit Lions' Calvin Johnson's rise in drops correlates with drop in practice time
4:06 PM, Dec. 19, 2013

Suh won't be 29 until after the season, FYI.

A whole 3 months before Suh turns 29, FYI

 

[RobBase]

A whole 3 months before Suh turns 29, FYI

Calvin has been in the league for 3 years longer and missed both games and practices with injuries. Suh is the epitome of health. Calvin is not the same player. Mike Wallace had more TDs than Calvin last year. Apples to oranges.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Calvin

It's the ooooooh aaaaaah factor.

Suh was just a boring defensive interior lineman.

But CJ? He makes you go ooooooh and aaaaaah.

I can let you know why I think Calvin is looked at as a difference maker and why I think he is a bigger difference maker than Suh.

Calvin is always productive no matter what type of coverage or game plan thrown at him. The only time he isn't -- if he is on the field with an injury (like the Lions used him in the NYJ and Buffalo game this year).

Suh can go full games where he doesn't record a tackle, sack, etc. They even had a topic about it on sports radio -- Suh went 9 straight quarters with recording a single tackle or sack this past year (started in the NE game, went the full Chicago game and ended in the TB game)

IMO -- Calvin will go down as one of the all-time greats. Suh is elite, but isn't in the conversation as one of the all-time greats and unless he is much more productive in Miami's system -- he won't be mentioned in that regard.

 

[Thruthefog]

Calvin



I can let you know why I think Calvin is looked at as a difference maker and why I think he is a bigger difference maker than Suh.

Calvin is always productive no matter what type of coverage or game plan thrown at him. The only time he isn't -- if he is on the field with an injury (like the Lions used him in the NYJ and Buffalo game this year).

Suh can go full games where he doesn't record a tackle, sack, etc. They even had a topic about it on sports radio -- Suh went 9 straight quarters with recording a single tackle or sack this past year (started in the NE game, went the full Chicago game and ended in the TB game)

IMO -- Calvin will go down as one of the all-time greats. Suh is elite, but isn't in the conversation as one of the all-time greats and unless he is much more productive in Miami's system -- he won't be mentioned in that regard.

We just have different opinions on the matter.

 

[Old Lion]

Calvin



I can let you know why I think Calvin is looked at as a difference maker and why I think he is a bigger difference maker than Suh.

Calvin is always productive no matter what type of coverage or game plan thrown at him. The only time he isn't -- if he is on the field with an injury (like the Lions used him in the NYJ and Buffalo game this year).

Suh can go full games where he doesn't record a tackle, sack, etc. They even had a topic about it on sports radio -- Suh went 9 straight quarters with recording a single tackle or sack this past year (started in the NE game, went the full Chicago game and ended in the TB game)

IMO -- Calvin will go down as one of the all-time greats. Suh is elite, but isn't in the conversation as one of the all-time greats and unless he is much more productive in Miami's system -- he won't be mentioned in that regard.

What we have here is what I call a case of the zacklies. Your post is zacklie right.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Calvin has been in the league for 3 years longer and missed both games and practices with injuries. Suh is the epitome of health. Calvin is not the same player. Mike Wallace had more TDs than Calvin last year. Apples to oranges.

I definitely won't argue Suh's health. That is the big plus for him. I'm lost on how Calvin isn't the same player? Injuries happen. It isn't like it is his knees or back or something. A high ankle sprain is just bad luck.

Also not sure what Mike Wallace and TD's have to do with Calvin?

Calvin played in 3 less game and really it was 5 less (because he did nothing in the two they left him in as a decoy) -- he had 8 TD's. In the 11 games he did play when 'healthy' -- he had 1060 yards and 8 TD's. Wallace had 862 in 16 games.

Are you going to say Suh isn't the same player because Sen'Derrick Marks had the same amount of sacks last year for Jacksonville as a DT? That is how silly the Mike Wallace comparison is.

 

[RobBase]

Calvin



I can let you know why I think Calvin is looked at as a difference maker and why I think he is a bigger difference maker than Suh.

Calvin is always productive no matter what type of coverage or game plan thrown at him. The only time he isn't -- if he is on the field with an injury (like the Lions used him in the NYJ and Buffalo game this year).

Suh can go full games where he doesn't record a tackle, sack, etc. They even had a topic about it on sports radio -- Suh went 9 straight quarters with recording a single tackle or sack this past year (started in the NE game, went the full Chicago game and ended in the TB game)

IMO -- Calvin will go down as one of the all-time greats. Suh is elite, but isn't in the conversation as one of the all-time greats and unless he is much more productive in Miami's system -- he won't be mentioned in that regard.

Suh is already regarded as a future HOFmer by dozens of ex players, current players and coaches.

It's also incorrect to say Suh doesn't make an impact on every play, because he does. If he commands a double team, that opens up an opportunity for a teammate. Triple team, opens up all kinds of things.

Calvin has gone multiple games without a TD, with less than 50 yards, is hamstringed by injuries and missed practices.

We're not comparing prime to prime here.

 

[Rollingthndr]

I absolutely agree. I would rather have additional picks this year and a ton of cap space next year. If we want to run the ball more then we need to get o-line and a top RB. If you accomplish that then CJ's absence becomes less important.



Not as hard as you might think. All the dead $ his contract carries is eaten up by us this year. The acquiring team only gets his salary. It's still ridiculous and amounts to a 5yr/$80m contract but easy to restructure and in CJ's best interest to do so. If he isn't traded and ends up being cut nobody is going to claim him and accept the remainder of that contract. His agent knows that. The second highest paid WR's are the franchise tag guys in Thomas and Bryant. Under contract is Mike Wallace at $12m and its actually CJ's outrageous $16.2m avg that pushes that tag number up so far.

If he's traded its in his best interest to redo his deal. Easy to get done IMO and keep him as the highest paid WR at $13m/avg. 4yr/$52m but guarantee $27m of it. That's a huge deal for him.

Your most likely trade candidates would be someone like the Raiders or Jets. They have plenty of cap space so all they do is reverse the typical way a contract is written by paying him larger amounts in the first two years and much lesser amounts in the final two years. He can actually sign a smaller average contract and get paid the same for the next three years. Everybody wins in this scenario. His agent would jump all over that because his client isn't going to get paid that otherwise, and certainly not with that guaranteed amount.

It's actually a very easy contract to do. $18m signing bonus spread over only two years. Salaries of $9m in year one and two. The guaranteed amount is actually completed after only that first year. In the third year its just a salary of $9m. He gets paid every dollar of the next three years of his current deal. In the fourth year he has nothing more than a $7m salary. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Yeah... CAN'T WAIT to see Lombardi's offense with no Calvin Johnson. Should be scintillating.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Suh is already regarded as a future HOFmer by dozens of ex players, current players and coaches.

It's also incorrect to say Suh doesn't make an impact on every play, because he does. If he commands a double team, that opens up an opportunity for a teammate. Triple team, opens up all kinds of things.

There is a very big difference between a future HOF'er and going down as one of the all-time greats at your position.

And as I said -- Calvin commands a double and triple team, and still put up record setting numbers for a WR. That is why he will go down as an all-time great and why players like Jerry Rice already called him the greatest WR the game has seen.

That is what an all-time great does. Suh is one of the best DT's in the game right now, not one of the all-time great DT's though. If he were putting up numbers like he did his rookie year consistently -- I'd say absolutely he is in the conversation.

 

[broncosmitty]

Play-Doh just called, it says The Lions Board is easy to manipulate.

 

[RobBase]

Play-Doh just called, it says The Lions Board is easy to manipulate.

I owe you a dollar.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

nothing like a "Mortimer bet"