Bruce Allen adamant that KC will be back next year

[Sportster 72]

Cousins and Wilson were very similar in stats this year. I would say both are pretty good.

 

[ehb5]

Cool stat. Sort of shoots a hole in the theory that some of been telling us that he throw only short passes that his receivers turn into big plays. Most air yards by any QB.

Since I said things along the lines of what youre talking about Ill respond (and nitpick )

- a lot of my criticism of Kirk throwing short was posted during games when we were trailing late or needed a quick score and dump offs to Thompson werent helping. I was also not shy to praise him when he did actually throw downfield.
- a lot of the criticism also comes from Kirk throwing to the first guy he sees a lot (not the worst thing - its been working pretty well) and therefore not seeing receivers downfield for big plays. What he does works, but it doesnt mean he isnt also leaving plays on the table.
- I dont believe Ive ever said that his receivers were creating massive YAC this year (I saw stats they were last year but have seen nothing of the sort this year)
- this stat is a very good step in the right direction from just passing yards imo (shoutout to burnsie for posting) but it still has its flaws - most notably that it basically cuts out YAC from being a factor but doesnt actually show how far downfield the player is throwing. You could lead the league in this stat while not throwing a ball past 20 yards all season.


Side Note:

I know I come off as a stickler with stats (and Im sure to some its just because I hate Kirk) but the reason is that football stats suck unfortunately. If this were baseball Id be using nothing but stats. But unfortunately football doesnt have stats like baseball does. Theres a ton of flaws in things like passing yards and completion %. So I think its just important that with football we consider film as well as stats and make sure we recognize the flaws in a lot of the stats being brought up and recognize what they actually tell us about a player. (Of course theres plenty of problems with film review too)

 

[SoCalWizFan]

- a lot of the criticism also comes from Kirk throwing to the first guy he sees a lot (not the worst thing - its been working pretty well) and therefore not seeing receivers downfield for big plays. What he does works, but it doesnt mean he isnt also leaving plays on the table.

This is true. However - IMO this is the type of thing that Cousins could improve on moving forward. Video study & working with players offseason could perhaps do wonders in this area. This idea that Cousins is incapable of improving just seems ridiculous to me.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

No. Not a hater but people on here want to give him a blank check. I understand this situation perfectly. I want to have him back but if he gets greedy I would take the picks and move on. No player is above the team.

Kirk Cousins on contract talks: 'I'm not trying to suck out every dollar possible'

Again - read this article. It sure doesn't sound like Cousins is trying to bleed them dry. I guess you could state that he is lying, but he has never done anything to indicate that he is that type of person.

 

[ehb5]

This is true. However - IMO this is the type of thing that Cousins could improve on moving forward. Video study & working with players offseason could perhaps do wonders in this area. This idea that Cousins is incapable of improving just seems ridiculous to me.

For sure. One of my favorite things about Kirk is how hard he seems to work on getting better. Im surprised you say that last sentence though. I agree with it but I havent seen annybody say that (I may have just missed that). On the other hand some people seem to think improvement is a given - which is also definitely not the case.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

For sure. One of my favorite things about Kirk is how hard he seems to work on getting better. Im surprised you say that last sentence though. I agree with it but I havent seen annybody say that (I may have just missed that). On the other hand some people seem to think improvement is a given - which is also definitely not the case.

From redskin4209 in another thread:

Dean will not be the only one to have a cow. I will also. But hey if we do decide to overpay a QB who has never won a playoff game or any big game for that matter is I feel a big mistake. I do not think he can get any better. If we do sign him and there is no improvement oh boy!!!!!! However if he does prove me wrong then I will eat my poop and gladly so. Just as long as my Skins win, that all that matters.

BTW - I have heard media members & fans of other teams say similar things recently.

 

[reptec101]

It would be just like the Redskins to finally "it would seem" to have a relatively competent QB that can put up big numbers with the likes of a Brees and/or Rivers and/or Stafford to name just a few... a QB they drafted even, and let him leave the building for a draft pick or two this year... or nothing next year. They fucked up in 2015 mid-season when they could have extended him then on the cheap. They fucked up last year when they could have signed him for a reasonable amount. Now, they're caught with their pants down and kirk can r*pe em if he so desires. Better than Luck money now is what the price tag is. Franchise again this year and he will be done with the Skins next year. If SM the great was so great he would have seen the rise in KC game in 2015 and gotten him signed... but he balked... and now he pays.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

It would be just like the Redskins to finally "it would seem" to have a relatively competent QB that can put up big numbers with the likes of a Brees and/or Rivers and/or Stafford to name just a few... a QB they drafted even, and let him leave the building for a draft pick or two this year... or nothing next year. They fucked up in 2015 mid-season when they could have extended him then on the cheap. They fucked up last year when they could have signed him for a reasonable amount. Now, they're caught with their pants down and kirk can r*pe em if he so desires. Better than Luck money now is what the price tag is. Franchise again this year and he will be done with the Skins next year. If SM the great was so great he would have seen the rise in KC game in 2015 and gotten him signed... but he balked... and now he pays.

Water under the bridge. Extend him in the next few months & let's move on to other areas of the team.

 

[deanpet21]

Kirk Cousins on contract talks: 'I'm not trying to suck out every dollar possible'

Again - read this article. It sure doesn't sound like Cousins is trying to bleed them dry. I guess you could state that he is lying, but he has never done anything to indicate that he is that type of person.

Didn't KC want 22-23M annually last year at this time?

 

[Sportster 72]

Since I said things along the lines of what youre talking about Ill respond (and nitpick )

- a lot of my criticism of Kirk throwing short was posted during games when we were trailing late or needed a quick score and dump offs to Thompson werent helping. I was also not shy to praise him when he did actually throw downfield.
- a lot of the criticism also comes from Kirk throwing to the first guy he sees a lot (not the worst thing - its been working pretty well) and therefore not seeing receivers downfield for big plays. What he does works, but it doesnt mean he isnt also leaving plays on the table.
- I dont believe Ive ever said that his receivers were creating massive YAC this year (I saw stats they were last year but have seen nothing of the sort this year)
- this stat is a very good step in the right direction from just passing yards imo (shoutout to burnsie for posting) but it still has its flaws - most notably that it basically cuts out YAC from being a factor but doesnt actually show how far downfield the player is throwing. You could lead the league in this stat while not throwing a ball past 20 yards all season.


Side Note:

I know I come off as a stickler with stats (and Im sure to some its just because I hate Kirk) but the reason is that football stats suck unfortunately. If this were baseball Id be using nothing but stats. But unfortunately football doesnt have stats like baseball does. Theres a ton of flaws in things like passing yards and completion %. So I think its just important that with football we consider film as well as stats and make sure we recognize the flaws in a lot of the stats being brought up and recognize what they actually tell us about a player. (Of course theres plenty of problems with film review too)

You should know by now ehb that I like to stir the pot from time to time. My post wasn't pointed at you. Mostly (besides stirring) the pot it is a reminder that although not Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers he has been pretty good. I know a lot of us had fun with the "what if Cousins was traded or let go for draft picks. I think most of us would prefer to have him around for a few more years.

BTW you should take a look at the stat again. There are air yards, YAC, AY/Attempt, % of AY vs Total Yards, % of YAC vs Total yards. So know it does not say he threw all his passes 20 yards or less but I think we get a pretty good picture from this stat. Not a complete picture but pretty good.

The ultimate stat in football but still not a conclusive one is wins. I defy anyone to say Jurgensen or Marino stunk.

 

[deanpet21]

It would be just like the Redskins to finally "it would seem" to have a relatively competent QB that can put up big numbers with the likes of a Brees and/or Rivers and/or Stafford to name just a few... a QB they drafted even, and let him leave the building for a draft pick or two this year... or nothing next year. They fucked up in 2015 mid-season when they could have extended him then on the cheap. They fucked up last year when they could have signed him for a reasonable amount. Now, they're caught with their pants down and kirk can r*pe em if he so desires. Better than Luck money now is what the price tag is. Franchise again this year and he will be done with the Skins next year. If SM the great was so great he would have seen the rise in KC game in 2015 and gotten him signed... but he balked... and now he pays.

That is my point. You say he is going to ask for better than Luck money. So if that is true and we have an opportunity to take a 1st and 3rd from the 49ers why shouldn't we take it?

 

[Sharkinva]

Didn't KC want 22-23M annually last year at this time?

1. where did you hear that?

2. The team offered him $16m or barely over backup and less than what Oswieler got.


I get it Kirk isnt exciting enough, and how dare he ask to even be paid market value since his failure to win the giants game is the sole reason we didnt get to have the packers mudstomp us again.

But really until we know what the team offers, or what he asks for... lets eas up on the OH MU GOD we cant pay him that much.

And for the record, what i heard was he wanted in the $50 million guaranteed/ $20M a season average.

the $50M guaranteed number came from the cost of last years tag number, plus this years tag number.... $20M +$24M

 

[deanpet21]

1. where did you hear that?

2. The team offered him $16m or barely over backup and less than what Oswieler got.


I get it Kirk isnt exciting enough, and how dare he ask to even be paid market value since his failure to win the giants game is the sole reason we didnt get to have the packers mudstomp us again.

But really until we know what the team offers, or what he asks for... lets eas up on the OH MU GOD we cant pay him that much.

And for the record, what i heard was he wanted in the $50 million guaranteed/ $20M a season average.

the $50M guaranteed number came from the cost of last years tag number, plus this years tag number.... $20M +$24M

That is what he wanted to sign him long term. That is why SM balked at that number b/c he didn't proves anything yet.

Where did you hear he only wants 50M guaranteed? If that is the case then its a no brainer to extend him.

 

[Stymietee]

You should know by now ehb that I like to stir the pot from time to time. My post wasn't pointed at you. Mostly (besides stirring) the pot it is a reminder that although not Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers he has been pretty good. I know a lot of us had fun with the "what if Cousins was traded or let go for draft picks. I think most of us would prefer to have him around for a few more years.

BTW you should take a look at the stat again. There are air yards, YAC, AY/Attempt, % of AY vs Total Yards, % of YAC vs Total yards. So know it does not say he threw all his passes 20 yards or less but I think we get a pretty good picture from this stat. Not a complete picture but pretty good.

The ultimate stat in football but still not a conclusive one is wins. I defy anyone to say Jurgensen or Marino stunk.

Agreed, I love and hate stats, because as you can see by this one people get to pick and choose the one that they like while ignoring the ones that they hate. For me the stats that I really take note of are those that ultimately determine wins and loses, but nobody wants to talk about those.

 

[ehb5]

From redskin4209 in another thread:

Dean will not be the only one to have a cow. I will also. But hey if we do decide to overpay a QB who has never won a playoff game or any big game for that matter is I feel a big mistake. I do not think he can get any better. If we do sign him and there is no improvement oh boy!!!!!! However if he does prove me wrong then I will eat my poop and gladly so. Just as long as my Skins win, that all that matters.

BTW - I have heard media members & fans of other teams say similar things recently.

Well I take that back then. And I agree with you - Im not sure why he wouldnt be able to improve.

 

[Sharkinva]

That is what he wanted to sign him long term. That is why SM balked at that number b/c he didn't proves anything yet.

Where did you hear he only wants 50M guaranteed? If that is the case then its a no brainer to extend him.

Again... where did you see that?? IM going off the reports from last year.

Apparently this year the talks start at $58M guaranteed, and $24M average. So Im thinking he gets $65M guaranteed, at $23-25M a year average value.

 

[chillerdab]

2016 Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

According to this website, KC was the 8th highest paid qb in the league, ahead of Aaron Rodgers (who he did NOT out perform) and Cam Newton (who he outperformed this year, but who took his team to the super bowl last year).

Also, KC's money was more than all of the following super bowl winning qb's last year: Brees, Brady, Wilson. and also more than Andrew Luck's money, and Phillip Rivers's money. That's pretty insane.

Shifting to this year, over the cap says:
2017 Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

in order to maintain the SAME position as last year - 8th in salary - KC needs $20.167 million a year, ore thousand dollars more than Cam Newton. He'd still be ahead of qb's that he has no business making more than, like: Rivers, Eli Manning, Luck, Big Ben, Brady, Wilson, but at least he'd be behind the following qb's: Ryan, Stafford, Rodgers.

That seems about right.

$20 million a year. Good for 8th in the league. Some amount guaranteed.

Side note: Tom Brady, arguably the greatest of all time, cut his salary to $14 million a year so that his team can be competitive around him. Just sayin....

 

[deanpet21]

Again... where did you see that?? IM going off the reports from last year.

Apparently this year the talks start at $58M guaranteed, and $24M average. So Im thinking he gets $65M guaranteed, at $23-25M a year average value.

I cant provide a link. I remember that is what KC asked for to sign a long term deal. I agree with what he is going to ask for this year.

 

[chillerdab]

I cant provide a link. I remember that is what KC asked for to sign a long term deal. I agree with what he is going to ask for this year.

If KC is on record as saying that he "doesnt need to suck out every dollar," then $24 million a year is not an acceptable figure. Romo, Flacco, and Carson Palmer are the only qb's projected to make $24million next year.

2017 Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

 

[deanpet21]

If KC is on record as saying that he "doesnt need to suck out every dollar," then $24 million a year is not an acceptable figure. Romo, Flacco, and Carson Palmer are the only qb's projected to make $24million next year.

2017 Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

Of course he is going to want 24M per year. I just hope the media reports all the offers b/c its going to get crazy.