Browns get Watson

[Stakesarehigh]

Yes he has the authority to both suspend and fine players for Conduct detrimental. If he decides that the contract was structured to avoid financial penalties, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't also issue a fine with the suspension.

This

 

[CrashDavisSports]

The NFL offices doesn't pocket money from fines. They go to their charity organization that assists ex-players in need. CBA mandated.

Sorry I misspoke. I knew it was collected and went to something the league designated. I just thought it went to league offices first before being distributed.

 

[fastforward]

Browns fans deserve better than what they have gotten from the organization.

This isn't going to be popular but I 'kinda' think they don't. I understand that loyalty is big thing, but Browns fans generally take it to excess. The organisation stands up and announces it's going to use a ton of Draft and/or cash resources on a 3-legged donkey and Browns fans jump up and cheer. This happens over and over again. At some point you have to think they deserve the 3-legged donkeys, or at least some of them, instead of the superstars. Where are the protest marches against what the organisation does? How likely is it that we look back in 5 or 6 years time and think the Browns made out like bandits trading for Watson? The reverse option looks way more likely. I'm not anti-Browns or anti-Browns fans but...damn!

 

[Stakesarehigh]

This isn't going to be popular but I 'kinda' think they don't. I understand that loyalty is big thing, but Browns fans generally take it to excess. The organisation stands up and announces it's going to use a ton of Draft and/or cash resources on a 3-legged donkey and Browns fans jump up and cheer. This happens over and over again. At some point you have to think they deserve the 3-legged donkeys, or at least some of them, instead of the superstars. Where are the protest marches against what the organisation does? How likely is it that we look back in 5 or 6 years time and think the Browns made out like bandits trading for Watson? The reverse option looks way more likely. I'm not anti-Browns or anti-Browns fans but...damn!

Protest marches?

Lol

 

[fastforward]

Protest marches?

Lol

Protest marches, demonstrations, fans with placards, boycotts, 'sack the owner' crowd chants, whatever it takes to get the message across. Browns fans just seem to passively accept bad decision-making. I didn't blame Rams fans in St. Louis for not going to games and supporting the team. I had a different view about the team and the city of St. Louis continually firing lawsuits at each other and not honouring agreements, but that wasn't on the fans.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Protest marches, demonstrations, fans with placards, boycotts, 'sack the owner' crowd chants, whatever it takes to get the message across. Browns fans just seem to passively accept bad decision-making. I didn't blame Rams fans in St. Louis for not going to games and supporting the team. I had a different view about the team and the city of St. Louis continually firing lawsuits at each other and not honouring agreements, but that wasn't on the fans.

We don't know if this is a bad decision or not. Very much remains to be seen. Almost no one feels amazing about it. If it was him without the baggage that would be different. It's a risk but so is banking the bulk of your roster being in their prime on a qb that may never be better than a mid tier type guy.

I'd have rather kept Baker. But I also understand not committing to him.

 

[Shanemansj13]

This isn't going to be popular but I 'kinda' think they don't. I understand that loyalty is big thing, but Browns fans generally take it to excess. The organisation stands up and announces it's going to use a ton of Draft and/or cash resources on a 3-legged donkey and Browns fans jump up and cheer. This happens over and over again. At some point you have to think they deserve the 3-legged donkeys, or at least some of them, instead of the superstars. Where are the protest marches against what the organisation does? How likely is it that we look back in 5 or 6 years time and think the Browns made out like bandits trading for Watson? The reverse option looks way more likely. I'm not anti-Browns or anti-Browns fans but...damn!

I think you are definitely exaggerating. Every fanbase has the guys that cheer for every move but it's a small portion. If you go to a Browns sports board (which I often go to), you will see a small portion of them that are delusional. Most are realistic and still think of their team as bottom feeders but love what Andrew Berry has built. That is realistic.

I was iffy about this trade but looking at it from a football standpoint, he is a CLEAR upgrade and Baker wasn't going to be there long-term, this has been going on for two years now. Whether I think this move will benefit them long-term, Baker and Browns weren't going to work.

 

[fastforward]

We don't know if this is a bad decision or not. Very much remains to be seen. Almost no one feels amazing about it. If it was him without the baggage that would be different. It's a risk but so is banking the bulk of your roster being in their prime on a qb that may never be better than a mid tier type guy.

I'd have rather kept Baker. But I also understand not committing to him.

We certainly don't know if this is a bad decision or not. Yes it may work out, but my point was that the Browns seem to constantly seek out options where the risk outweighs the probable reward, (I won't list all the questionable Draft picks and high paid FAs) and Browns fans seem happy to go along with it. Personally it drives me nuts when I see the Rams take what I perceive to be bad risks, (Tavon Austin, Greg Robinson, Tutu Atwell, etc). I don't wish the Browns or their fans any misfortune. I'm just less sorry than most when someone makes a bad bet and it doesn't pay off, (and i'm aware that I score really badly on empathy tests).

 

[Shanemansj13]

We certainly don't know if this is a bad decision or not. Yes it may work out, but my point was that the Browns seem to constantly seek out options where the risk outweighs the probable reward, (I won't list all the questionable Draft picks and high paid FAs) and Browns fans seem happy to go along with it. Personally it drives me nuts when I see the Rams take what I perceive to be bad risks, (Tavon Austin, Greg Robinson, Tutu Atwell, etc). I don't wish the Browns or their fans any misfortune. I'm just less sorry than most when someone makes a bad bet and it doesn't pay off, (and i'm aware that I score really badly on empathy tests).

Lets put it this way:

Option 1: Keep Baker. Sign him long-term with a loaded roster and see what he can do for the next 4-5 years.

Option 2: Move on from Baker and don't trade for a top QB. You likely get a bridge QB and have to draft a QB.

Option 3: Parts ways with Baker and give up future assets for a guy that has proven he can be a star QB. (What the Browns did)

Outcome
Option 1 - Maybe Baker improves but it sounds like a good way to become a playoff team but you are stuck with lower ceiling for years to come.
Option 2 - This would completely tear down what was built and you have to get lucky with a mid round rookie QB to save your franchise.
Option 3 - This is by far the highest ceiling. Yes you lose some future draft picks. The money is overblown though, you can keep extending Watson and restructuring to lower his cap number year after year. The risky part is this season, how long will his suspension last?

Those players were risks for different reasons. What we know is DW can be a top QB on the field. Sure, he could regress but is it more likely Baker takes you to a SB/deep in the playoffs or some bridge QB or Watson? I guess we will see.

 

[fastforward]

Lets put it this way:

Option 1: Keep Baker. Sign him long-term with a loaded roster and see what he can do for the next 4-5 years.

Option 2: Move on from Baker and don't trade for a top QB. You likely get a bridge QB and have to draft a QB.

Option 3: Parts ways with Baker and give up future assets for a guy that has proven he can be a star QB. (What the Browns did)

Outcome
Option 1 - Maybe Baker improves but it sounds like a good way to become a playoff team but you are stuck with lower ceiling for years to come.
Option 2 - This would completely tear down what was built and you have to get lucky with a mid round rookie QB to save your franchise.
Option 3 - This is by far the highest ceiling. Yes you lose some future draft picks. The money is overblown though, you can keep extending Watson and restructuring to lower his cap number year after year. The risky part is this season, how long will his suspension last?

Those players were risks for different reasons. What we know is DW can be a top QB on the field. Sure, he could regress but is it more likely Baker takes you to a SB/deep in the playoffs or some bridge QB or Watson? I guess we will see.

I can definitely see your argument. I don't think many people have faith in Mayfield beyond 2022, but having made that 5th year commitment I wouldn't have been inclined to take a significant trade loss just to ship him out. Maybe it's just bad timing with multiple AFC making big pushes this year. I'm not sure the Browns passing game will be there in 2022, even with Cooper and Njoku, now that both Beckham Jr. and Landry are off the roster. Peoples-Jones isn't someone I know anything about. I can at least wish you luck with Watson's health, (but just saying that will probably put the mockers on him). The salary and loss of picks will be felt in 2023.

 

[dtgold88]

That will be the consensus analysis but watch the Steelers somehow come out of this looking smart in the long run. Somehow Tomlin gets the most out of Trubisky while the Steelers defense ruins evrybody's party in the AFCN. Lol.

I wouldn't put it past him.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Lets put it this way:

Option 1: Keep Baker. Sign him long-term with a loaded roster and see what he can do for the next 4-5 years.

Option 2: Move on from Baker and don't trade for a top QB. You likely get a bridge QB and have to draft a QB.

Option 3: Parts ways with Baker and give up future assets for a guy that has proven he can be a star QB. (What the Browns did)

Outcome
Option 1 - Maybe Baker improves but it sounds like a good way to become a playoff team but you are stuck with lower ceiling for years to come.
Option 2 - This would completely tear down what was built and you have to get lucky with a mid round rookie QB to save your franchise.
Option 3 - This is by far the highest ceiling. Yes you lose some future draft picks. The money is overblown though, you can keep extending Watson and restructuring to lower his cap number year after year. The risky part is this season, how long will his suspension last?

Those players were risks for different reasons. What we know is DW can be a top QB on the field. Sure, he could regress but is it more likely Baker takes you to a SB/deep in the playoffs or some bridge QB or Watson? I guess we will see.

You're better off with Watson. The guaranteed cash was the real shocker.....

 

[dtgold88]

and if he said we believe he did nothing wrong then he gets blasted for not believing the women. He played it right...say as little as possible.

 

[dtgold88]

That's a good point, especially on Allen. I remember almost everyone said he had big arm, athletic but will never amount to much. You really have to give him credit for the hard work as you say. But it really goes to show that it is really hard to evaluate these guys going in. Sometimes what seems obvious to most isn't how it plays out. I would also add about Allen is his willingness to be coached and the fantastic job his coaches did. Fwiw, you also have to add Lamar to your list in that draft class. Obviously, a vastly different type of QB and stil a lot of questions but the kids a gamer and genuinely likeable in many ways.

Totally agree. when I hear big and big arm as top attributes it's not a QB I want. I want to hear accurate and intelligent. at time of draft, Allen was the former and far from the latter.

I'm sure many Browns fans now claim they knew allen was the guy but I remember a ton going apeshit when there was a rumor that "friend of Dorsey" said Dorsey loved allen and would take him.

 

[dtgold88]

Cause Baker was/is a shithead person. He was at Tech, OU and the first week the Browns reached for him at #1 overall. Remember when just days after the draft he questioned what the Giants did drafting Daniel Jones. That ain't confidence, that is shithead.

Before I responded to this post, I spent a little time looking for a couple of my posts leading up to the 2018 draft, got tired of killing the time.
The draft was piss QB poor. That shoulda been obvious to the most casual observer. We're talking #1 overall here. Shit, trade down, anything but QB.
That was Russian roulette with one empty chamber. Darnold showed warts the last two years at USC. Rosen was a shithead with less notoriety than Mayfield. I said it then, the ONLY person IF IF IF you had to take QB top 3, it's Allen cause of a cannon and coachability, but he isn't ready to start day one.

It's just my opinion but Baker never showed much get after it when faced with adversity on a level playing field.
Sorry, I laughed. I hated the guy so much I wanted him in Washington or NYG

"Just days after the draft" he questioned what the Giants did with Jones? something tells me you were not thinking hundreds of days as he said that about a year later.

Curious what made you so sure Allen was the guy. was it all the Wyoming games you saw? The film breakdown you did of him and with him? Your conversations with his coaches and teammates?

 

[dtgold88]

I didn't like his answer that he had no regrets for sure.

That I agree with. I mean, if nothing else say you should not have seen so many different massage therapists (his answer on why he did that also not believable). In addition, no need to say it wasn't about the money as clearly it was.

 

[dtgold88]

Protest marches, demonstrations, fans with placards, boycotts, 'sack the owner' crowd chants, whatever it takes to get the message across. Browns fans just seem to passively accept bad decision-making. I didn't blame Rams fans in St. Louis for not going to games and supporting the team. I had a different view about the team and the city of St. Louis continually firing lawsuits at each other and not honouring agreements, but that wasn't on the fans.

"Browns fans seem to passively accept bad decision making?"

doubt those who received all the faxes when Modell said he was moving the Browns agrees.

 

[Shanemansj13]

That I agree with. I mean, if nothing else say you should not have seen so many different massage therapists (his answer on why he did that also not believable). In addition, no need to say it wasn't about the money as clearly it was.

Only explanation is that if he did say otherwise it would hurt him in the civil cases and he is trying to be totally innocent of everything. Unlikely…

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Only explanation is that if he did say otherwise it would hurt him in the civil cases and he is trying to be totally innocent of everything. Unlikely…

I think that is mostly it. If he apologizes or even remotely sugests guilt, the plaintiffs lawyers will eat that up. But that answer was so disingenuous and slimy, the optics were just bad. He needs better PR people in his ear, imo.

 

[PDay8810]

"Just days after the draft" he questioned what the Giants did with Jones? something tells me you were not thinking hundreds of days as he said that about a year later.

my bad...Mayfield clowned Jones and the gmen August of 2019, that was a whole 4 months after the pick. I think Jones had even played in a preseason game when Mayfield thought it best to give his opinion on Jones and the Gmen

Curious what made you so sure Allen was the guy. was it all the Wyoming games you saw? The film breakdown you did of him and with him? Your conversations with his coaches and teammates?

LOL, you are curious? Film breakdown? my conversations with coaches? Lets review the statement.

" I said it then, the ONLY person IF IF IF you had to take QB top 3, it's Allen cause of a cannon and coachability, but he isn't ready to start day one."

do you not see an opinion here? I'll leave the film breakdown bull shit to the ones who need help understanding the game of football