Bill Russell is the GOAT

[_Xer0_]

FG% was pretty shitty back in the day in large part because goaltending was legal. Imagine the shooting percentages guys today would have if you could swat the ball away at any time. Hell shooting 44% in that situation is impressive IMO. Guys in todays NBA would be hard pressed to shoot 30% from outside of 5 feet if you could just block a shot at anytime.

it's a valid point, but Wilt scored 30 ppg on .540 from the field over his career, so it didn't stop him from being ultra efficient. Russell just wasn't a very good offensive player, that's the major reason why he couldn't shoot a high %.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

I think he'd be a mediocre defender and a good passer. But not enough to make a roster in the current NBA.

Really? Bynum was just given $6m to not like basketball, Oden hasn't played in years and is on a roster, Odom was literally addicted to crack and was on a roster, but no Russell has no shot of making an NBA roster

Russell was a world class athlete by modern standards with out modern day sports training, unless the free throw line and basket have been made larger in years?

Why do you hate Russell?

 

[BOTSLAYER]

it's a valid point, but Wilt scored 30 ppg on .540 from the field over his career, so it didn't stop him from being ultra efficient. Russell just wasn't a very good offensive player, that's the major reason why he couldn't shoot a high %.

How would you goal tend Wilt exactly? And once again compared to the league he was a very decent offensive player.

Also his PER is 96th OF ALL TIME!!! You guys keep saying the same bullshit over and over, if you guys would just read the thread all of your statements are answered.



In the end this means Russell is indeed the GOAT due to lack of credible counter arguments.

Because it is funny:

 

[HammerDown]

Really? Bynum was just given $6m to not like basketball, Oden hasn't played in years and is on a roster, Odom was literally addicted to crack and was on a roster, but no Russell has no shot of making an NBA roster

Russell was a world class athlete by modern standards with out modern day sports training, unless the free throw line and basket have been made larger in years?

Why do you hate Russell?

I just do. Not sure why but I "hate" Bill Russell.

What a dumb thing to say. And desperate too. You're taking this waaaay too seriously. You're bending over backwards to convince us that a mediocre 6' 7" small forward was the greatest center of all time when he freely admits that he wasn't even the best player on his own team but if we disagree it means we "hate Bill Russell."

Try harder, Bot.

 

[_Xer0_]

There is not 1 argument for Russell over Wilt.

Not 1.

Wilt was superior in EVERY facet of the game of basketball.

Russell had better teams around him.

Wilt is the greatest and most dominant force in NBA History, Russell is not even in the discussion.

 

[HammerDown]

In the end this means Russell is indeed the GOAT due to lack of credible counter arguments.

He wasn't even the best player on his own team.

 

[HammerDown]

There is not 1 argument for Russell over Wilt.

Not 1.

Wilt was superior in EVERY facet of the game of basketball.

Russell had better teams around him.

Wilt is the greatest and most dominant force in NBA History, Russell is not even in the discussion.

"Why do you hate Bill Russell?"

 

[ripper76]

I think a lot of people's opinions on Russel and Wilt are in large part influenced by where they fall in the Lakers/Celtics spectrum.

People who tend towards the Celtics think Russell was GOAT, and people who tend towards the Lakers think he wouldn't be good enough to make an NBA roster today. Vice versa when it comes to Wilt.

Don't run from your biases, be honest about them.

 

[RoboticDreams]

I think a lot of people's opinions on Russel and Wilt are in large part influenced by where they fall in the Lakers/Celtics spectrum.

People who tend towards the Celtics think Russell was GOAT, and people who tend towards the Lakers think he wouldn't be good enough to make an NBA roster today. Vice versa when it comes to Wilt.

Don't run from your biases, be honest about them.

Thanks, Dr Phil.

 

[ripper76]

Thanks, Dr Phil.

It's my pleasure.

 

[HammerDown]

I think a lot of people's opinions on Russel and Wilt are in large part influenced by where they fall in the Lakers/Celtics spectrum.

People who tend towards the Celtics think Russell was GOAT, and people who tend towards the Lakers think he wouldn't be good enough to make an NBA roster today. Vice versa when it comes to Wilt.

Don't run from your biases, be honest about them.

Fact: Bill Russell wasn't the best player on his own team. Russell admits this.

Fact: Wilt dominated Russell his entire career. Russell admits this.

The blindness is clearly on the part of the Celtics fans, which is not surprising at all as fans of Boston teams think they're the center of the sports universe.

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

* pretty sure that was russell's way of using diplomatic rhetoric...in those 2 "facts"

 

[_Xer0_]

Fact: Bill Russell wasn't the best player on his own team. Russell admits this.

Fact: Wilt dominated Russell his entire career. Russell admits this.

The blindness is clearly on the part of the Celtics fans, which is not surprising at all as fans of Boston teams think they're the center of the sports universe.

that is the flat out truth.

Bill Russell himself would be the first to tell you he was nowhere near as good as Wilt.

 

[Brahmsian]

People don't like to admit it but Russell was much more like a taller Ben Wallace, he was a defence first guy because he was not really good offensively so to his credit he played to his strengths. i mean the guy was a Center and shot .440 from the field for his career.

Wilt could do anything on the court, if you needed scoring he would score (scored 50 points a game in 1961-1962), passing he would pass (he led the NBA in Assists in 1967-1968 at 8.6). As we know he was also a dominant rebounder and shot blocker.

Entire teams were geared to stop Wilt and he still dominated and put up huge numbers, Russell never commanded any attention because they had to worry about stopping all of his HoF teammates.

If I ever knew about that assist leadership season I had forgotten about it. That does reflect well on Wilt, I have to admit.

 

[Jims_Doors]

The NBA's Love Affair with Michael Jordan

found this, interesting read, good points by Wilt.

-Wilt Chamberlain on the NBA at 50 celebration in 1996

No other major sport propagandizes that one particular player is the best ever. Why is Basketball so different? Because David Stern is trying to sell his current game by calling Jordan "unquestionably the best ever".

The late Wilt Chamberlain said it best:

"If Michael was here right now, I would say to him: When you are so great that the league tries to change the rules in an attempt to stop you then you can claim you are the best ever.

Every rule change I have seen during your career has been meant to enhance your game (such as shortened 3 point line, hand checking rules & well defined rules regarding illegal defenses)."

Wilt also went on further to discuss how players of his day did not have the luxury of regular National T.V. broadcasts to promote their talents to the public. Modern players have the luxuries of chartered jets, first class hotels, modern sports medicine, fewer games on back-to-back nights, illegal defenses, looser rules governing assists, the 3 point line and superstars getting preferential treatment from referees.

1960's refs freely admit that they let players foul Wilt Chamberlain when he did not have the ball "to help them"defend him.

Contrast this with today when superstars are coddled by officials. In spite of all these luxuries afforded to modern players Wilt Chamberlain (who retired 28 years ago) still holds 50 regular season records, many of which are in the untouchable realm. Contrast this with Michael Jordan who in spite of getting more preferential treatment from officials than any other player in history holds a whopping 4 regular season records.

 

[HammerDown]

* pretty sure that was russell's way of using diplomatic rhetoric...in those 2 "facts"

Averaging over 50 points per season isn't rhetoric, it's fact. The "eye test" and the numbers ALL prove that what Bill Russell freely admits, that Wilt dominated him his entire career, is indeed a FACT, not "diplomatic rhetoric." You don't admit to the world that someone kicked your ass for 12 years when they didn't.

"But, but, but... he's a great rebounder."

Then why did he let Wilt get 56 rebounds on him. IN ONE FUCKING GAME?!

Wilt Chamberlain dominated Bill Russell his entire career, which Russell admits. Russell wasn't even the best player on his team.

"But, but, but..."

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Averaging over 50 points per season isn't rhetoric, it's fact. The "eye test" and the numbers ALL prove that what Bill Russell freely admits, that Wilt dominated him his entire career, is indeed a FACT, not "diplomatic rhetoric." You don't admit to the world that someone kicked your ass for 12 years when they didn't.

"But, but, but... he's a great rebounder."

Then why did he let Wilt get 56 rebounds on him. IN ONE FUCKING GAME?!

Wilt Chamberlain dominated Bill Russell his entire career, which Russell admits. Russell wasn't even the best player on his team.

"But, but, but..."

What are you Sman? Back up your statements with more than repeating them. Also it was 55.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

I just do. Not sure why but I "hate" Bill Russell.

What a dumb thing to say. And desperate too. You're taking this waaaay too seriously. You're bending over backwards to convince us that a mediocre 6' 7" small forward was the greatest center of all time when he freely admits that he wasn't even the best player on his own team but if we disagree it means we "hate Bill Russell."

Try harder, Bot.

It is you who should try harder. You see, when you repeat your same old tired and blatantly incorrect statements it is how we all know you have lost and are desperate.

 

[rmilia1]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle here. Even if you believe that Russell wasnt the best player on those Celtic teams ( I think he was ) that is really irrelevant when it comes to talking about whether or not Russell was great. Those Boston teams had so many HOFers that not being the best on that team is like saying Karl Malone wasnt the best player on the Dream Team. I think Russell is a top 20 player in league history but not the top guy or even close to it. He MAY be a top 5 center in NBA history along with Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem. The problem Bill would have in todays game is he simply wasnt large enough to physically dominate a game in todays NBA as much as he could in the 50/60's. That said the man was a GREAT defender and I fully believe he could play PF right now and be successful because he was athletic and contrary to popular opinion his offense was fine ( he simply didnt need to score as much as Wilt did because Russells teams were just vastly more talented ). Centers IMO will never get the credit they deserve when it come to GOAT discussions because subconsciously we discount their stats and relevance because of their size. Hell Id go as far to say as there has NEVER been a more dominating force in NBA history than a motivated, fully healthy Shaq yet you will NEVER see his name listed on any of these lists. At the end of the day we all gravitate more towards guards/forwards when these discussions arise because they have superior athleticism/quickness/are more exciting. Nobody remembers a game winning layup Tim Duncan makes but we all remember a floating in the air 16 foot jumper over the top of Craig Ehlo that Jordan made. At the end of the day give me a guy that did ALL phases of the game at an extraordinary level. Scoring, rebounding, passing, defense, shooting etc etc but give him to me in a smaller than 7 foot package. Just the way I feel about it and MOST other people think the same. Thats why the only real viable options in the argument are MJ and Oscar.

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

I'd be willing to put good money on the fact most posters in this thread weren't even born when "Russ"& the "Big Dipper" were still playing.......and if they were, they sure as hell weren't old enough to be following NBA hoops objectively.