And the deflated balls story plot thickens

[PatsFan2003]

I have a feeling there is about to be a ballboy rolling around in a brand new car soon.

You mean in his new job at Kraft Industries??

 

[cdumler7]

Well the NFL has already deemed the refs free from any wrong doing in this situation. The balls were properly checked before the game and then rechecked at half time by 2 separate gauges to make sure one was not faulty. Both the Colts and Patriots balls were checked before the game and at half time to make sure no weather could have been the cause so at this point it really has come down to who did the cheating and who knew about it.

 

[fordman84]

You mean in his new job at Kraft Industries??

 

[fordman84]

Well the NFL has already deemed the refs free from any wrong doing in this situation. The balls were properly checked before the game and then rechecked at half time by 2 separate gauges to make sure one was not faulty. Both the Colts and Patriots balls were checked before the game and at half time to make sure no weather could have been the cause so at this point it really has come down to who did the cheating and who knew about it.

I don't get this part. They say the investigation isn't over, don't know who is to blame or if there is even a problem...but the KNOW the refs did nothing wrong.


What if all the tape review they supposedly are doing ends up showing some ref was on the take from the mob and has a needle in his pocket to deflate the ball a bit and force a running game? I don't know, spitballing here but it seems odd to say you still have a lot to look at but can rule out a segment of it all without any doubt.

 

[fredmccallyRTR]

Balls here are always over inflated.

End of thought.

 

[cerealboi]

I'll just leave this here . . .

Deflategate theory: What if Pats inflated balls in warm environment?

 

[NEPatsfan]

Well you got me. What I do for a living requires me to be incredibly biased. That's all I know how to be.

Ball washer? You didn't happen to play a role in the movie Caddyshack did you?

 

[fredmccallyRTR]

I'll just leave this here . . .

Deflategate theory: What if Pats inflated balls in warm environment?

A 2% psi change would have likely resulted, instead of a 16% change.

I'll leave this here.... For nerds.

 

[PatsFan2003]

Well the NFL has already deemed the refs free from any wrong doing in this situation. The balls were properly checked before the game and then rechecked at half time by 2 separate gauges to make sure one was not faulty. Both the Colts and Patriots balls were checked before the game and at half time to make sure no weather could have been the cause so at this point it really has come down to who did the cheating and who knew about it.

Yeah that was pretty fast!

The day after they announced 11 out of 12 balls were the limit it was pretty clear this wasn't just odd case. The weather just wasn't cold enough to explain that kind of pressure (and only for the Patriots)

To me Belichick and I guess Brady now are the prime suspects but they were so adamant that you have to wonder why. There's no point in boldly lying if you know you're going to be exposed soon enough. You do something else like "says everyone does it" or "you misread the rules" type of excuse.

And maybe that's what will happen.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Total BS.

 

[cdumler7]

Yeah that was pretty fast!

The day after they announced 11 out of 12 balls were the limit it was pretty clear this wasn't just odd case. The weather just wasn't cold enough to explain that kind of pressure (and only for the Patriots)

To me Belichick and I guess Brady now are the prime suspects but they were so adamant that you have to wonder why. There's no point in boldly lying if you know you're going to be exposed soon enough. You do something else like "says everyone does it" or "you misread the rules" type of excuse.

And maybe that's what will happen.

Why do guys caught using steroids deny it? It is human nature when backed into a corner to try and get out of it whatever way possible.

 

[LogicMan]

trend
By Jerome SolomonJanuary 21, 2015 Updated: January 22, 2015 4:38pm

1





HARVEY INSIDE HOUSTON SPORTS

Allen quarterback Kyler Murray (1) coasts into the end zone after beating Pearland defensive back Jason King (33) on a 37-yard touchdown run during the second half of the Class 5A Division I State Championship game at AT&T Stadium Saturday, Dec. 21, 2013, in Arlington. Allen won the game 63-28. ( Smiley N. Pool / Houston Chronicle ) Kyler Murray and other pressing questions Tampering with footballs is hardly a recent trend How does the first-year work of current Texans coach Bill O'Brien (left) compare to predecessor Gary Kubiak? O'Brien's first-year work was good, but not like Kubiak's Houston Rockets’ Dwight Howard dunks the ball against the Cleveland Cavaliers during the first quarter of an NBA basketball game Wednesday, Jan. 7, 2015, in Cleveland. (AP Photo/Tony Dejak) Shaq explains his criticism of Dwight Howard Ex-Houston Astros players Craig Biggio, left, and Nolan Ryan, who's also the principal owner, president and CEO of the Texas Rangers, visit before a Major League Baseball game between the Texas Rangers and Houston Astros, Friday, May 18, 2012, in Minute Maid Park in Houston. Biggio may be Astros' first Hall of Famer, but there's no lack of New Jersey governor Chris Christie (right) has raised eyebrows this season with his Dallas Cowboys fandom. Cut Parsons, Christie slack for Cowboys fandom NFL VP: Hold should have been called against Cowboys Houston Texans defensive end J.J. Watt (99) sacks Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback Blake Bortles (5) during the first quarter of an NFL football game at NRG Stadium on Sunday, Dec. 28, 2014, in Houston. ( Brett Coomer / Houston Chronicle ) Texans: View from press box of 23-17 victory over the Jaguars Houston Texans defensive end J.J. Watt (99) sacks Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback Blake Bortles (5) during the first quarter of an NFL football game at NRG Stadium on Sunday, Dec. 28, 2014, in Houston. ( Brett Coomer / Houston Chronicle ) Five things we learned in the Texans' 23-17 win over the Jaguars Houston Texans defensive end J.J. Watt (99) reacts after sacking Baltimore Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco (5) during the fourth quarter of an NFL game at NRG Stadium, Sunday, Dec. 21, 2014, in Houston. ( Karen Warren / Houston Chronicle ) Five things we learned in the Texans' 25-13 win over the Ravens
The hysteria over "deflategate," as it is being called, doesn't match the crime.

(I think anyone with half a working brain would conclude there was indeed a crime.)

Calls for the Patriots to be removed from the upcoming Super Bowl against Seattle and replaced by the Colts, or for Bill Belichick to be barred from the stadium and not allowed to coach his team in the Super Bowl, are ridiculous.

Get a hold of yourselves, people.

This isn't nearly as big a deal as some are trying to make it out to be. If it were, the league would have done something about it a long time ago.

The NFL found 11 of 12 balls in the Patriots' stash during the AFC Championship Game this past Sunday were underinflated by about two pounds per square inch. The Colts' footballs had no such problem.

While underinflated balls are generally easier to throw for most quarterbacks, the infraction didn't help the Patriots to any large degree, if at all.

Tom Brady fared much better in the second half with the proper balls than he did using the illegal balls in the first half in the Patriots' 45-7 romp.

It will be interesting to see what the league investigation reveals. Quite likely, after the officials checked the balls before the game, some ball boy released the air because he either assumed it would help Brady play better or somebody told him it would.

Is it cheating? Gamesmanship? Getting an undeserved edge?

Well, yeah.

But how egregious is the infraction? It depends on your point of view.

A strong argument could be made that from the NFL's point of view, such a violation isn't that significant.

Long ago, the NFL determined that when it came to the footballs being used in games, kickers were cheating to such a degree that it wanted to put a stop to it.

From a John McClain column in the Chronicle (Oct. 30, 1994), before the '94 season the league sent a letter to teams warning of a possible $10,000 fine for anyone found to have doctored a football.

McClain quoted Minnesota special teams coach Gary Zauner with Step 1 of his recipe for cooking footballs:

"Preheat the oven to 250 degrees, bake for 10 minutes."

No one was punished; the doctoring continued.

So, in 1998, the league increased the fine to $25,000.

Kickers kept cheating.

So the next year the league decided to put someone at every game in charge of 12 footballs, K balls they are called, to be used only by the kickers. That ended the kickers' fun.

But the league left 12 balls with each teams for the quarterbacks to do with as they pleased. And, again, the fine for violating the rule was a $25,000 fine.

If the league didn't want quarterbacks to possibly continue doctoring footballs, why didn't it take their balls away too?

Because the league doesn't care.

I don't think anyone has ever been fined.

Here is some more fun stuff from what kickers were doing to doctor footballs before the new rule, with information from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution and Sports Illustrated:

Falcons' punter Dan Stryzinski said he used to pump balls to 20 pounds per square inch, or how much air it could stand (manufacturer recommends 13 psi), and let the over- inflated balls sit overnight to stretch the leather. The next morning he put the balls in a sauna for 15 minutes, then brushed them with a non-wire shoe brush.

Bears kicker Jeff Jaeger and punter Todd Sauerbrun over-inflated balls and left them sitting for three days. They then deflated the balls to eight pounds and pushed the ends into the corner of a table. They over- inflated them again, threw them into a laundry sack with wet towels and put them into a dryer.

"Ten minutes was all it would take to get them real hot," Sauerbrun said. "They'd bang around in the dryer, and then we'd brush them off."

If a ball needed more work, it would be deflated again and put under hot water.

When Sauerbrun was injured during the season, the Bears signed Mike Horan, who had graduated from Long Beach State with a degree in mechanical engineering.

Horan had a device made out of a skateboard and two-by-fours that he and Jaeger used to roll a 100- pound dumbbell over the balls.

All of this foolishness was going on and what did the league do?

It eventually took the balls away from the kickers and threatened to fine any cheater $25,000 grand.

Here's another tidbit: one reason the competition committee took control of the kicking footballs was because of quarterback complaints.

Some quarterbacks, Dallas' Troy Aikman for instance, liked the beat up balls. Others, like Denver's John Elway, didn't.

Then there's a New York Times story on how the Giants prepare footballs for Eli Manning, who falls in the former category.

So the league decided to allow quarterbacks to do whatever they wanted to the football until right before the referee inspected them before the game, but they banned kickers from doing anything.

Break the rule like someone who had access to New England's footballs did on Sunday, and you could get docked $25,000.

That's it.

So please, NFL fine somebody, or five somebodies $25,000 so we can get on to wasting time talking about the Super Bowl.

 

[PatsFan2003]

Why do guys caught using steroids deny it? It is human nature when backed into a corner to try and get out of it whatever way possible.

Maybe but I don't know if that's so true. At some point most admit it and move on. They realize the punishment is usually less that way. Isn't it? If they are really in that deep, claiming total innocence will just backfire. You start going a different way.

I don't know. It just seems like a disconnect.

 

[tedman2012]

A 2% psi change would have likely resulted, instead of a 16% change.

I'll leave this here.... For nerds.

looks like the colts would have had small balls also . they was all checked in the same room at same time . nfl will do anything to delay the outcome until the off season .

BRADY DIDN'T LET THE AIR OUT HIMSELF !!!! THEN AGAIN BILL DIDN'T HAVE SEX WITH THAT GIRL EITHER .

 

[TheRangerDude]

A post from another site. Interesting. Do we have any math geeks that can confirm the math?

Science teacher here. Given the conditions of the game, a ball which meets specifications in the locker room could easily lose enough pressure to be considered under-inflated. Some math:
Guy-Lussac's Law describes the relationship between the pressure of a confined ideal gas and its temperature. For the sake of argument, we will assume that the football is a rigid enough container (unless a ball is massively deflated, it's volume won't change). The relationship is (P1/T1) = (P2/T2), where P is the pressure and T is the temperature in Kelvins.
The balls are inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi at a temperature of 70 degrees Farenheit (294.1 K). Let's assume an average ball has a gauge pressure of 13 psi. This makes the absolute pressure of the ball 27.7 psi (gauge + atmosphere). Since these are initial values, we will call them P1 and T1.
The game time temperature was 49 degrees F (278 K). We are attempting to solve for the new pressure at this temperature, P2. We plug everything into the equation and get (27.7/294.1) = (P2/278). At the game time temperature, the balls would have an absolute pressure of 26.2 psi and a gauge pressure of 11.5, below league specifications.
*Furthermore, given that it was raining all day, the air in the stadium was saturated with water vapor. At 70 degrees, water has a vapor pressure of 0.38 psi. The total pressure of the ball is equal to the pressure of the air inside the ball and the vaporized water in the ball. At 49 degrees, the vapor pressure of water is 0.13 psi. Up to 0.25 additional psi can be lost if the balls were inflated by either the team or the refs prior to the game. Granted, it's unlikely that anyone would inflate balls from 0, but it easily could cost another couple hundredths of a psi in pressure.
For a ball that barely meets specifications (12.5 psi gauge), it's pressure would drop to 11.1 psi during the game... enough to be considered massively underinflated.

Yup, most of the math and science seems on point here except 40 degrees F = 282 Kelvin. That changes the final answer of the first part from 11.5 psi to near 11.9 psi. Making a change in pressure of 13-11.9 = 1.1 psi. Since in this case it changed almost twice that, even with rain, it is improbable that temperature was the cause unless they were aired up in a much hotter room than 70 degrees F, which I suppose is still possible.

Also, keep in mind they measured the Colts balls as well and none of them were under regulation pressure. By the same math, even if they were inflated to the maximum 13.5 psi, you would get 12.3 psi which is also under regulation. Thus, something must be a bit off here. It could be a few things, one the assumption that the balls are aired up at 70 degrees F is incorrect or Amontons' Law (described as Guy-Lussac's Law here-name has changed) is not applicable as the assumption that a football is a rigid is incorrect. My guess is it is a little of both but the main issue is likely that a football only becomes rigid and of fixed in volume, under pressure which is not what this law was designed for.

Still great work by the scientist that put this together. They showed their work very well and it was very easy to follow. It was also a great idea on how to evaluate this situation and its author should be commended for all that.

I think given what I posted here and the significance of the pressure difference, it is pretty obvious someone deflated the balls. That said, its going to be tough to prove who did it, especially if the balls were in anyone elses procession. The only ways I think you can say no one purposely deflated the balls is if during one of the measuring periods, a bad gauge was used on only the Pats balls or if initially they were simply passed and not measured.

In the future, this whole thing could be avoided by simply putting the refs in charge of the balls and both teams play with the same balls. If the idea is to create a level playing field, whats more level than both teams using the same ball?

 

[Southieinnc]

Yup, most of the math and science seems on point here except 40 degrees F = 282 Kelvin. That changes the final answer of the first part from 11.5 psi to near 11.9 psi. Making a change in pressure of 13-11.9 = 1.1 psi. Since in this case it changed almost twice that, even with rain, it is improbable that temperature was the cause unless they were aired up in a much hotter room than 70 degrees F, which I suppose is still possible.

Also, keep in mind they measured the Colts balls as well and none of them were under regulation pressure. By the same math, even if they were inflated to the maximum 13.5 psi, you would get 12.3 psi which is also under regulation. Thus, something must be a bit off here. It could be a few things, one the assumption that the balls are aired up at 70 degrees F is incorrect or Amontons' Law (described as Guy-Lussac's Law here-name has changed) is not applicable as the assumption that a football is a rigid is incorrect. My guess is it is a little of both but the main issue is likely that a football only becomes rigid and of fixed in volume, under pressure which is not what this law was designed for.

Still great work by the scientist that put this together. They showed their work very well and it was very easy to follow. It was also a great idea on how to evaluate this situation and its author should be commended for all that.

I think given what I posted here and the significance of the pressure difference, it is pretty obvious someone deflated the balls. That said, its going to be tough to prove who did it, especially if the balls were in anyone elses procession. The only ways I think you can say no one purposely deflated the balls is if during one of the measuring periods, a bad gauge was used on only the Pats balls or if initially they were simply passed and not measured.

In the future, this whole thing could be avoided by simply putting the refs in charge of the balls and both teams play with the same balls. If the idea is to create a level playing field, whats more level than both teams using the same ball?

Both teams being able to do what they want with the ball. Like it is now.....

 

[TheRangerDude]

[/B]
Both teams being able to do what they want with the ball. Like it is now.....

I'm not sure you understood what I said there. If you are using the same ball/s as your opponent vs. each team having its own balls, the playing field would be more level because the ball/s is/are constant between both teams. There wouldn't even be a dispute to be had here.

 

[RegentDenali]

LOL at Pats fans trying to explain this all away the same way JoePologists tried to explain away the events of the Sandusky rapes and PSUs corruption. Same rhythmic slapping noises of trying to explain it all away.

Make sure you hit us with the U of Oregon defense everytime their busted by the NCAA. "The rules are to complicated to understand!"

 

[Fencer]

A 2% psi change would have likely resulted, instead of a 16% change.

I'll leave this here.... For nerds.

Your arithmetic is so bad that I presume you are a Republican.

First, the relevant figure is 12.5 + 14.5 PSI, so if there's really 2 PSI of pressure drop to be explained (which is hardly confirmed, considering the number of times gauges were stuck in by the refs to remove air), there's less than a 7.5% drop to account for.

Second, each 10 degrees Farenheit is close to a 2% pressure drop on its own, or more precisely .5 PSI.

So if you get .5 PSI x2 from 20 degrees of temperature, and .5 PSI x3 from having gauges stuck in three times (once before the game and twice at halftime), you've MORE than explained the anonymously-sourced pressure drop with NO Patriots wrong-doing whatsoever.

All that said, I suspect the Patriots of inflating their balls in particularly warm rooms. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they were even more innocent than that, and this whole thing turned out to be Duke Lacrosse Team level of BS.

 

[Fencer]

LOL at Pats fans trying to explain this all away the same way JoePologists tried to explain away the events of the Sandusky rapes and PSUs corruption. Same rhythmic slapping noises of trying to explain it all away.

Make sure you hit us with the U of Oregon defense everytime their busted by the NCAA. "The rules are to complicated to understand!"