Analyze your team's draft...

[tlance]

I don't think you do get it. I'm not down on Griffin. I'm just not on board with the so far unsubstantiated hype. Can you answer my question? Who is the top pick he has ever made not named Zion (who fell in his lap)?

No questions about a 19-year old kid from a foreign country? Doesn't he go #1 if anyone was so sure about him?

I don't care what he did with his drafts in Cleveland.

I am praising what he has done in his short time on the job in New Orleans.

You don't like him and seem to possibly be holding a grudge.

Just go back and see how people here talked about Doncic last year. There are always questions about every rookie. Yet still, he was rated very highly.

Not his fault Phoenix and Sacramento both messed up.

 

[dtgold88]

I don't care what he did with his drafts in Cleveland.

I am praising what he has done in his short time on the job in New Orleans.

You don't like him and seem to possibly be holding a grudge.

Just go back and see how people here talked about Doncic last year. There are always questions about every rookie. Yet still, he was rated very highly.

Not his fault Phoenix and Sacramento both messed up.

No amount of times you saying the bolded above will make you less wrong each time. I like him. Hoped he'd stay. Just wasn't a must keep at all costs GM.

I've even heard many say Lebron left because Griff was not retained. Lebron cared so much he did not insist the unemployed Griff be hired by the Lakers.

There were some who thought highly of Young, as well. No issue with the sexton pick, but was really hoping he'd slide to the cavs.

"in his short time in NO" he has traded what most think is a top 5 player and MVP candidate for players Lebron did not think could help him win a title. I think the haul was fine and not sure he could have done better but the praise has been a bit much. That Davis fellow is pretty good.

He then traded the 4 pick, and took a questionable center at 8. 17 OK (saw him going anywhere from 15-25 or so) and my guess is the 3rd pick he receives is in the teens or 20s.

His team, like his last, all comes down to the superstar he lucked into. Or in the Cavs case, superstars as he had little to do with acquiring any of them.

 

[tlance]

No amount of times you saying the bolded above will make you less wrong each time. I like him. Hoped he'd stay. Just wasn't a must keep at all costs GM.

I've even heard many say Lebron left because Griff was not retained. Lebron cared so much he did not insist the unemployed Griff be hired by the Lakers.

There were some who thought highly of Young, as well. No issue with the sexton pick, but was really hoping he'd slide to the cavs.

"in his short time in NO" he has traded what most think is a top 5 player and MVP candidate for players Lebron did not think could help him win a title. I think the haul was fine and not sure he could have done better but the praise has been a bit much. That Davis fellow is pretty good.

He then traded the 4 pick, and took a questionable center at 8. 17 OK (saw him going anywhere from 15-25 or so) and my guess is the 3rd pick he receives is in the teens or 20s.

His team, like his last, all comes down to the superstar he lucked into. Or in the Cavs case, superstars as he had little to do with acquiring any of them.

He had to trade Davis. No choice there.

And the Celtics and Knicks, thought to be the Lakers biggest competition both basically tapped out and refused to make anything resembling their best offers.

Yet, Griffin still managed to get everything but Kuzma from the Lakers.

The pick swaps and also not doing the deal on the Lakers time frame are both significant wins for Griffin.

So yeah, he did pretty well there.

 

[Heatles84]

We did a damn good job according to CBS @Heatles84 @TurnUpTheHeat

Miami wound up with a pretty nice haul getting Tyler Herro in the back end of the lottery and KZ Okpala, a player teams were rumored to be considering in the first round, in the first half of the second round. Need proof on the bargain? Here's Herro, from Thursday, on his suit: "It speaks for itself. I mean, look at it. Best drip here." What a treasure. Herro is going to be a star in Miami, and Okpala has star potential and a perfect fit to discover it with the Heat. Grade: A

2019 NBA Draft grades, team-by-team picks: Hawks, Grizzlies, Pelicans, Spurs earn As, but Suns get a D

I think both will end up solid players. Doubt Herro makes it to all-star caliber; but I could see solid starter.

 

[dtgold88]

He had to trade Davis. No choice there.

And the Celtics and Knicks, thought to be the Lakers biggest competition both basically tapped out and refused to make anything resembling their best offers.

Yet, Griffin still managed to get everything but Kuzma from the Lakers.

The pick swaps and also not doing the deal on the Lakers time frame are both significant wins for Griffin.

So yeah, he did pretty well there.

I think he did fine under the circumstances. On both deals. But the narrative on him is that he did a lot more than fine.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

We did a damn good job according to CBS @Heatles84 @TurnUpTheHeat

Miami wound up with a pretty nice haul getting Tyler Herro in the back end of the lottery and KZ Okpala, a player teams were rumored to be considering in the first round, in the first half of the second round. Need proof on the bargain? Here's Herro, from Thursday, on his suit: "It speaks for itself. I mean, look at it. Best drip here." What a treasure. Herro is going to be a star in Miami, and Okpala has star potential and a perfect fit to discover it with the Heat. Grade: A

2019 NBA Draft grades, team-by-team picks: Hawks, Grizzlies, Pelicans, Spurs earn As, but Suns get a D

I honestly never heard of either one before the draft.
Hopefully they do well.

 

[Shanemansj13]

No amount of times you saying the bolded above will make you less wrong each time. I like him. Hoped he'd stay. Just wasn't a must keep at all costs GM.

I've even heard many say Lebron left because Griff was not retained. Lebron cared so much he did not insist the unemployed Griff be hired by the Lakers.

There were some who thought highly of Young, as well. No issue with the sexton pick, but was really hoping he'd slide to the cavs.

"in his short time in NO" he has traded what most think is a top 5 player and MVP candidate for players Lebron did not think could help him win a title. I think the haul was fine and not sure he could have done better but the praise has been a bit much. That Davis fellow is pretty good.

He then traded the 4 pick, and took a questionable center at 8. 17 OK (saw him going anywhere from 15-25 or so) and my guess is the 3rd pick he receives is in the teens or 20s.

His team, like his last, all comes down to the superstar he lucked into. Or in the Cavs case, superstars as he had little to do with acquiring any of them.

I would let the picks get to training camp and play a summer league game before saying they are questionable picks. It was about fit around their potential star, they had a plan and now have a ton of future picks in case some of these young players dont workout. Hunter or Culver, even though I think they should have kept the #2, doesnt really fit their team mold now. They have their starting SF and SG, even point guard so he traded down for 2 picks and a future pick. It isnt that big of a deal bc Hunterisnt a sure bet, Culver even isnt. Garland might be the guy that succeeds but they have Lonzo and Holiday now. If this was the Cavs they keep the #4 but it is bc of what their team needs are, it changes from team to team.

 

[bksballer89]

I honestly never heard of either one before the draft.
Hopefully they do well.

I never ever heard of the Stanford kid but I don't pay attention to PAC 12 basketball much.

Herro was a known name though for Kentucky.

Probably their 2nd best player after PJ Washington.

One thing where Herro will without a doubt help the Heat is ft shooting. He was close to 95% and we both know how bad of ft shooting we been lately.

 

[dtgold88]

I would let the picks get to training camp and play a summer league game before saying they are questionable picks. It was about fit around their potential star, they had a plan and now have a ton of future picks in case some of these young players dont workout. Hunter or Culver, even though I think they should have kept the #2, doesnt really fit their team mold now. They have their starting SF and SG, even point guard so he traded down for 2 picks and a future pick. It isnt that big of a deal bc Hunterisnt a sure bet, Culver even isnt. Garland might be the guy that succeeds but they have Lonzo and Holiday now. If this was the Cavs they keep the #4 but it is bc of what their team needs are, it changes from team to team.

Fair point about waiting, but those heaping praise on him aren't waiting to see what the picks become.

As I said I think he did fine.....Cavs also acquired a ton of assets and they are ripped more often than praised since Griff left.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Fair point about waiting, but those heaping praise on him aren't waiting to see what the picks become.

As I said I think he did fine.....Cavs also acquired a ton of assets and they are ripped more often than praised since Griff left.

Yeah for sure, I think Griffin is just getting praised overall and mainly for the AD thread. They got a ton of picks which is always good but as far as their roster, it is one big question mark. I mean the C's roster was way more talented, they had a ton of picks, acquired Kyrie, etc. and look how that turned out.

As far as the Cavs if Sexton and Garland can make this work and Garland is as good as the Cavs think...the Cavs are looking good in future. They have future draft picks as well and can acquire more possibly this upcoming season and at the deadline with some nice expiring contracts

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah for sure, I think Griffin is just getting praised overall and mainly for the AD thread. They got a ton of picks which is always good but as far as their roster, it is one big question mark. I mean the C's roster was way more talented, they had a ton of picks, acquired Kyrie, etc. and look how that turned out.

As far as the Cavs if Sexton and Garland can make this work and Garland is as good as the Cavs think...the Cavs are looking good in future. They have future draft picks as well and can acquire more possibly this upcoming season and at the deadline with some nice expiring contracts

Griff's been getting bigtime praise since he was here and what did he really do? No draft picks by him who were with anything (not his fault as picking late or not at all) and he had little to do with any of the Big 3 coming.....

Lebron - wanted to come home. Cap cleared by Grant
Kyrie - trade to acquire pick by Grant and willingness of Gilbert to pay Baron Davis
Love - acquired with cap space cleared by Grant as well as picks/players acquired by him (and lucking into wiggins)

 

[Shanemansj13]

Griff's been getting bigtime praise since he was here and what did he really do? No draft picks by him who were with anything (not his fault as picking late or not at all) and he had little to do with any of the Big 3 coming.....

Lebron - wanted to come home. Cap cleared by Grant
Kyrie - trade to acquire pick by Grant and willingness of Gilbert to pay Baron Davis
Love - acquired with cap space cleared by Grant as well as picks/players acquired by him (and lucking into wiggins)

He made a ton of great moves, just bc the core wasn't there didn't mean he didn't do a good job making some nice deals for role players. You can't just look at the Big 3 and say he did nothing. Cmon man. You do know Griffin was hired in early February, before the 2014 NBA Draft, before that big trade, so actually he did have a part in the Big 3.

I think you just like to take credit away from good GM's and coaches. Seems like you think that these guys don't do much when in actuality it's the opposite.

Also, talking about draft picks is really irrelevant. They never had any good picks in the draft bc they either traded picks away to acquire role players like Korver or they were late 1st round or 2nd round picks.

15 moves that shaped David Griffin's three years as Cavaliers general manager - cleveland.com

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yeah, I would have taken Reddish. But he is not exactly a lock to hit.

I am okay with Hachimura.

And in typical fashion, you are greatly exaggerating your position.

There were 3 players at the top and a jumbled mess after that. There were a few that got more hype than others, but the reality is that there are a lot of players drafted after 3 who project as solid pros. Very few stars there.

And the high upside plays like Reddish and Garland are not without a lot of risk.

From The Athletic:

1. Rui Hachimura — I think Hachimura is a small reach here, but evaluators around the NBA were extremely mixed on him and I’m willing to hear out differences of opinion on this. It’s not a big deal from a talent perspective to take him at No. 9 in a draft like this. He has genuine upside if a team felt comfortable and confident in a development plan for him to get him there. So in that vein, I think I’m more frustrated with the process on a pick like this than anything. According to SB Nation, no one from the Wizards met with Hachimura before selecting him, and no one from the organization even so much as spoke with him. With most prospects, that approach wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. But with Hachimura, it gets a little bit more complicated because there are a lot of factors to consider as a large market drafting him. He’s not a guy you just throw to the wolves and see what happens. You need a plan. The language is no longer a barrier, but he’s also a person with a tremendous amount of interest in him from the entire country of Japan and until this point has basically lived an entirely sheltered existence in America. Going to Gonzaga and living in Spokane, Washington helped hide him away from massive media situations outside of some feature stories where people came to him. Throughout the pre-draft season, Hachimura was hidden away by Wasserman — with many teams believing he had a promise set. Now, he’ll be entering the NBA, where the spotlight is about 10 times larger than college basketball, and the team who selected him didn’t even so much as speak with him to best figure out how to make this work? Given that Hachimura still has a remarkable amount of development still left in his game — particularly when it comes to shooting the 3 and playing defense — this is not a road I would have gone down. He’s a high-level human being, and someone who I think adjusts well to things. But it’s just indicative of what the Wizards have done this spring and summer, going about things with half measures instead of picking a lane and going full-bore behind their decisions. That falls as much on owner Ted Leonsis more than it does on general manager Tommy Sheppard. So yeah, this one didn’t work for me from a front office perspective more than the player himself.

 

[LogicMan]

After losing Kyrie Danny did pick up assets

The Purdue PG will have immediate impact off the bench and will be a fan favorite. He can shoot and score. So there is that

Langford was ok pick but will be flipped in the year ahead. Maybe kept if Jaylen has to be moved

Grant Williams does not excite me.

Go green

 

[tlance]

From The Athletic:

1. Rui Hachimura — I think Hachimura is a small reach here, but evaluators around the NBA were extremely mixed on him and I’m willing to hear out differences of opinion on this. It’s not a big deal from a talent perspective to take him at No. 9 in a draft like this. He has genuine upside if a team felt comfortable and confident in a development plan for him to get him there. So in that vein, I think I’m more frustrated with the process on a pick like this than anything. According to SB Nation, no one from the Wizards met with Hachimura before selecting him, and no one from the organization even so much as spoke with him. With most prospects, that approach wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. But with Hachimura, it gets a little bit more complicated because there are a lot of factors to consider as a large market drafting him. He’s not a guy you just throw to the wolves and see what happens. You need a plan. The language is no longer a barrier, but he’s also a person with a tremendous amount of interest in him from the entire country of Japan and until this point has basically lived an entirely sheltered existence in America. Going to Gonzaga and living in Spokane, Washington helped hide him away from massive media situations outside of some feature stories where people came to him. Throughout the pre-draft season, Hachimura was hidden away by Wasserman — with many teams believing he had a promise set. Now, he’ll be entering the NBA, where the spotlight is about 10 times larger than college basketball, and the team who selected him didn’t even so much as speak with him to best figure out how to make this work? Given that Hachimura still has a remarkable amount of development still left in his game — particularly when it comes to shooting the 3 and playing defense — this is not a road I would have gone down. He’s a high-level human being, and someone who I think adjusts well to things. But it’s just indicative of what the Wizards have done this spring and summer, going about things with half measures instead of picking a lane and going full-bore behind their decisions. That falls as much on owner Ted Leonsis more than it does on general manager Tommy Sheppard. So yeah, this one didn’t work for me from a front office perspective more than the player himself.

Yeah.

I heard that a couple days after the draft. Crazy.

I would like to assume they found out everything they needed about his character and work ethic, but still it is highly troubling that the Wizards didn't talk to him.

 

[dtgold88]

He made a ton of great moves, just bc the core wasn't there didn't mean he didn't do a good job making some nice deals for role players. You can't just look at the Big 3 and say he did nothing. Cmon man. You do know Griffin was hired in early February, before the 2014 NBA Draft, before that big trade, so actually he did have a part in the Big 3.

I think you just like to take credit away from good GM's and coaches. Seems like you think that these guys don't do much when in actuality it's the opposite.

Also, talking about draft picks is really irrelevant. They never had any good picks in the draft bc they either traded picks away to acquire role players like Korver or they were late 1st round or 2nd round picks.

15 moves that shaped David Griffin's three years as Cavaliers general manager - cleveland.com

Not at all...why I say he's a good GM. But he's getting way more credit than he deserves from his time here and now in NO. I just didn't think he was a keep at all costs GM as many seemed to think.

some of what I've said about coaches/GMs might have been right. do Ainge and Stevens appear to be all that still?

did you read the article? As many moves they thought were not good as there were good moves. And what would you say his best move was? Best pick? I'd say dealing for Moz/Shump/JR was best move. Couldn't even tell you a good pick he made (Harris, I guess, but he let him go). Agree not his fault he didn't have good picks, but why believe the picks he makes will work out?

And, no, he played no part in the Big 3. Did he make the deal to get Love or Lebron? Sure, but that was as much him as it was to luck into the pick that became Zion. Those deals get done with or without him.

 

[CitySushi]

Not at all...why I say he's a good GM. But he's getting way more credit than he deserves from his time here and now in NO. I just didn't think he was a keep at all costs GM as many seemed to think.

some of what I've said about coaches/GMs might have been right. do Ainge and Stevens appear to be all that still?

did you read the article? As many moves they thought were not good as there were good moves. And what would you say his best move was? Best pick? I'd say dealing for Moz/Shump/JR was best move. Couldn't even tell you a good pick he made (Harris, I guess, but he let him go). Agree not his fault he didn't have good picks, but why believe the picks he makes will work out?

And, no, he played no part in the Big 3. Did he make the deal to get Love or Lebron? Sure, but that was as much him as it was to luck into the pick that became Zion. Those deals get done with or without him.

Literally everyone lucks into something in the NBA. Nothing happens truly organically.

Name a successful team and I'll show you at least one major piece they lucked into.

The Spurs dynasty was created because the Spurs tanked and lucked into Duncan that year.
The Bulls lucked into Jordan falling to 3rd.
The Warriors lucked into Curry falling to 9th.
The Knicks "lucked" into Ewing the first year the draft was incepted.
The Cavs lucked into Lebron the first time around. Kid from Ohio gets drafted by Cleveland.
The Cavs lucked into Kyrie from the Clippers pick.

You can go on and on with "luck". The NBA in general is a completely crap shoot when it comes to young players or development of players. You never know truly how good anyone really is going to be. See: Pascal Siakam, Draymond Green, Giannis, etc...

 

[tlance]

Literally everyone lucks into something in the NBA. Nothing happens truly organically.

Name a successful team and I'll show you at least one major piece they lucked into.

The Spurs dynasty was created because the Spurs tanked and lucked into Duncan that year.
The Bulls lucked into Jordan falling to 3rd.
The Warriors lucked into Curry falling to 9th.
The Knicks "lucked" into Ewing the first year the draft was incepted.
The Cavs lucked into Lebron the first time around. Kid from Ohio gets drafted by Cleveland.
The Cavs lucked into Kyrie from the Clippers pick.

You can go on and on with "luck". The NBA in general is a completely crap shoot when it comes to young players or development of players. You never know truly how good anyone really is going to be. See: Pascal Siakam, Draymond Green, Giannis, etc...

And no matter how lucky you get, you still have to be able to put quality pieces around your core guys.

Teams that fail to do that don't win jack.

The AD era in New Orleans is a perfect example of a franchise not building a deep enough roster that fit their best players.

 

[Shanemansj13]

And no matter how lucky you get, you still have to be able to put quality pieces around your core guys.

Teams that fail to do that don't win jack.

The AD era in New Orleans is a perfect example of a franchise not building a deep enough roster that fit their best players.

And you could say the same thing about coaches. Ohh Phil "lucked" into MJ and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq. You still have to win, you still have to call the right plays, you still have to practice, etc. If we are going by the lucky logic, everyone is lucky lolzz

 

[Shanemansj13]

Not at all...why I say he's a good GM. But he's getting way more credit than he deserves from his time here and now in NO. I just didn't think he was a keep at all costs GM as many seemed to think.

some of what I've said about coaches/GMs might have been right. do Ainge and Stevens appear to be all that still?

did you read the article? As many moves they thought were not good as there were good moves. And what would you say his best move was? Best pick? I'd say dealing for Moz/Shump/JR was best move. Couldn't even tell you a good pick he made (Harris, I guess, but he let him go). Agree not his fault he didn't have good picks, but why believe the picks he makes will work out?

And, no, he played no part in the Big 3. Did he make the deal to get Love or Lebron? Sure, but that was as much him as it was to luck into the pick that became Zion. Those deals get done with or without him.

Everyone is lucky lol. That narrative is so old. The fact is Griffin made a ton of moves in Cleveland that most people forget about it and they opened up a lot of possibilites. He wasn't the main reason they won a title but he was part of it. I don't hear anyone saying he is the greatest GM ever but he is one of the best in the NBA imo and I don't think he is getting too much credit. Let this N.O. team play out, it will probably be a couple years before they even contend for the playoffs and that is expected, if Zion becomes great maybe sooner.