Analyze your team's draft...

[tlance]

And you could say the same thing about coaches. Ohh Phil "lucked" into MJ and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq. You still have to win, you still have to call the right plays, you still have to practice, etc. If we are going by the lucky logic, everyone is lucky lolzz

Exactly

 

[msgkings322]

Everyone is lucky lol. That narrative is so old. The fact is Griffin made a ton of moves in Cleveland that most people forget about it and they opened up a lot of possibilites. He wasn't the main reason they won a title but he was part of it. I don't hear anyone saying he is the greatest GM ever but he is one of the best in the NBA imo and I don't think he is getting too much credit. Let this N.O. team play out, it will probably be a couple years before they even contend for the playoffs and that is expected, if Zion becomes great maybe sooner.

It's not either or. Most championships involve both good decisions and some luck. I would even say almost all.

 

[dtgold88]

Literally everyone lucks into something in the NBA. Nothing happens truly organically.

Name a successful team and I'll show you at least one major piece they lucked into.

The Spurs dynasty was created because the Spurs tanked and lucked into Duncan that year.
The Bulls lucked into Jordan falling to 3rd.
The Warriors lucked into Curry falling to 9th.
The Knicks "lucked" into Ewing the first year the draft was incepted.
The Cavs lucked into Lebron the first time around. Kid from Ohio gets drafted by Cleveland.
The Cavs lucked into Kyrie from the Clippers pick.

You can go on and on with "luck". The NBA in general is a completely crap shoot when it comes to young players or development of players. You never know truly how good anyone really is going to be. See: Pascal Siakam, Draymond Green, Giannis, etc...

Ok, but a keep at all costs GM has to have done something to earn that "title" that wasn't based on luck. with the Cavs what did he do? If anything, the only good picks he made he let go (Harris and Curry).

Don't disagree one bit luck was needed to get Lebron both times (not Griff). Also to get Kyrie...luck, and Gilbert willing to spend on the pick (again, not Griff).

Luck got him Zion. Now, if he gets a star out of the AD deal (players or picks) then good for him. And he might, but not yet.

 

[dtgold88]

And no matter how lucky you get, you still have to be able to put quality pieces around your core guys.

Teams that fail to do that don't win jack.

The AD era in New Orleans is a perfect example of a franchise not building a deep enough roster that fit their best players.

And IF he does this great, but so far his pieces are guys Lebron did not think were good enough. The job he did in Cleveland gets done with or without him.

 

[dtgold88]

And you could say the same thing about coaches. Ohh Phil "lucked" into MJ and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq. You still have to win, you still have to call the right plays, you still have to practice, etc. If we are going by the lucky logic, everyone is lucky lolzz

If you ever saw Phil win without the elite of the elite you might have something. You now have seen Kerr go 5-8 in Finals games when his team does not have a clear talent advantage. was he smart with Durant, then forgot how smart he was without him?

 

[dtgold88]

Everyone is lucky lol. That narrative is so old. The fact is Griffin made a ton of moves in Cleveland that most people forget about it and they opened up a lot of possibilites. He wasn't the main reason they won a title but he was part of it. I don't hear anyone saying he is the greatest GM ever but he is one of the best in the NBA imo and I don't think he is getting too much credit. Let this N.O. team play out, it will probably be a couple years before they even contend for the playoffs and that is expected, if Zion becomes great maybe sooner.

Did you even read the list you linked? Many of the moves were criticized. Even the decent picks he made he let go (Harris and Curry).

The Cavs won because of the Big 3. without them, his moves mean nothing. I read the list...what were the "ton of moves" he made? Sure, he helped and did a nice job, but that team was built because of the cap space and assets acquired by Grant, and Gilbert's willingness to spend on the Kyrie pick.....and Lebron being from NE Ohio

I agree things MIGHT work out, but he is getting credit BEFORE it plays out.

 

[dtgold88]

It's not either or. Most championships involve both good decisions and some luck. I would even say almost all.

No disagreement, nor did I ever say otherwise. ONLY argument about Griff was he was not the "must keep" GM he was portrayed to be. If he was, Lebron would have insisted Lakers sign him

 

[flyerhawk]

He had to trade Davis. No choice there.

And the Celtics and Knicks, thought to be the Lakers biggest competition both basically tapped out and refused to make anything resembling their best offers.

Yet, Griffin still managed to get everything but Kuzma from the Lakers.

The pick swaps and also not doing the deal on the Lakers time frame are both significant wins for Griffin.

So yeah, he did pretty well there.

Hmm. I'm not sure how much credit I am willing to give Griffin regarding the Davis trade. The table was set and he basically got what the Lakers offered in April.

The Lakers had no way of knowing whether the Celtics or Knicks would jump into the mix and the longer things played out, the more uncertainty they would have.

Pelinka could have held firm and probably made a better deal but it would have been super risky. And the Lakers HAD to get that deal done. So they went all in early to avoid other teams getting involved.

He gets credit for making the deal but I don't think it was such a brilliant move that he should be praised for it.

 

[tlance]

Hmm. I'm not sure how much credit I am willing to give Griffin regarding the Davis trade. The table was set and he basically got what the Lakers offered in April.

The Lakers had no way of knowing whether the Celtics or Knicks would jump into the mix and the longer things played out, the more uncertainty they would have.

Pelinka could have held firm and probably made a better deal but it would have been super risky. And the Lakers HAD to get that deal done. So they went all in early to avoid other teams getting involved.

He gets credit for making the deal but I don't think it was such a brilliant move that he should be praised for it.

That isn't true though.

First off, the Pelicans had all the leverage in February. They had none this summer because the Celtics and Knicks weren't willing to step up to the plate.

Then, the Pelicans got a package significantly more valuable than what they would have received in season anyway.

Remember, that pick would not have been #4 if the traded went down earlier and those initial discussions did not have the pick swaps in those reports. Then, on top of all that, they consummate the deal in July opening up added cap space for NOLA.

I am just not sure how Griffin could have realistically done better than what he did given that there weren't any other serious players in the market for AD. The reason NOLA didn't take a deal but back then was because Boston was supposed to make a better offer. They didn't.

 

[flyerhawk]

That isn't true though.

First off, the Pelicans had all the leverage in February. They had none this summer because the Celtics and Knicks weren't willing to step up to the plate.

Then, the Pelicans got a package significantly more valuable than what they would have received in season anyway.

Remember, that pick would not have been #4 if the traded went down earlier and those initial discussions did not have the pick swaps in those reports. Then, on top of all that, they consummate the deal in July opening up added cap space for NOLA.

I am just not sure how Griffin could have realistically done better than what he did given that there weren't any other serious players in the market for AD. The reason NOLA didn't take a deal but back then was because Boston was supposed to make a better offer. They didn't.

I don't know if Griffin could have done better than what he got. He did a good job on the deal.

I just don't know how much he was responsible for it rather than just the guy in charge when it happened.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I don't know if Griffin could have done better than what he got. He did a good job on the deal.

I just don't know how much he was responsible for it rather than just the guy in charge when it happened.

Well is sounded like Demps was never going to make the deal and he didn't wanted to deal with the Lakers. That could have just been to get more leverage in the offseason but I don't see much more he could have received than Griffin got had he changed his mind and wanted to make a deal this summer. AD could very well be on N.O. still and they have to trade him at the deadline for scraps. Griffin is a damn good GM but I really don't see him getting a ton of praise, I think what he is getting is fair.
As far as the draft goes, he was set at #1. I questioned the trade down from #4 when it happened but the more I think about it from his perspective he was just trying to find guys that fit around Zion, who they want to build around.

Overall I would Griffin a B+ or A- overall. I do think there were a handful of teams that did better in the draft though.

 

[flyerhawk]

Well is sounded like Demps was never going to make the deal and he didn't wanted to deal with the Lakers. That could have just been to get more leverage in the offseason but I don't see much more he could have received than Griffin got had he changed his mind and wanted to make a deal this summer. AD could very well be on N.O. still and they have to trade him at the deadline for scraps. Griffin is a damn good GM but I really don't see him getting a ton of praise, I think what he is getting is fair.
As far as the draft goes, he was set at #1. I questioned the trade down from #4 when it happened but the more I think about it from his perspective he was just trying to find guys that fit around Zion, who they want to build around.

Overall I would Griffin a B+ or A- overall. I do think there were a handful of teams that did better in the draft though.

Pretty much agree.

Sometimes GMs are just victims of circumstance.

Ryan Grigson won Executive of the Year because of his brilliance of having the No. 1 overall pick and taking the universally agreed to pick of Andrew Luck. Sometimes they get huge credit for just doing their job.

I think that David Griffin is a good GM. But I want to see him do something really notable before I will say he is a great GM.

 

[dtgold88]

Well is sounded like Demps was never going to make the deal and he didn't wanted to deal with the Lakers. That could have just been to get more leverage in the offseason but I don't see much more he could have received than Griffin got had he changed his mind and wanted to make a deal this summer. AD could very well be on N.O. still and they have to trade him at the deadline for scraps. Griffin is a damn good GM but I really don't see him getting a ton of praise, I think what he is getting is fair.
As far as the draft goes, he was set at #1. I questioned the trade down from #4 when it happened but the more I think about it from his perspective he was just trying to find guys that fit around Zion, who they want to build around.

Overall I would Griffin a B+ or A- overall. I do think there were a handful of teams that did better in the draft though.

while I think A- (maybe B+) seems a little high for the draft grade, I guess it can be justified because of Zion - though Griff had nothing to do with that. I guess he did fine, but I agree with you I'd probably have stayed at 4, though we don't know how they valued the guys available there. Other picks, who knows. as we know, draft grades are simple. If the guy grading had the players taken sooner than they went it's a good grade. Later and it is downgraded. I saw some mocks with their #17 pick going mid-late 20s and Hayes in the teens. Guessing that grade would be in the C range.

as for AD? Sure, he did fine, but agree with shane the groundwork was pretty much there. Griff benefited from the Laker pick being as high as 4.

Admittedly, many of my comments on Griff come from the idea he was a "must keep" for the Cavs with some going so far as to make the foolish statement Lebron left because they didn't keep Griff. Lebron cared so much he didn't insist the Lakers hire the unemployed Griffin.

He was a solid GM and I hoped he'd stay (and I really like his work as an analyst as he was brutally honest), but to this date his best draft pick I can come up with was Joe Harris......and he let him go. Sure, not his fault he never had a high pick but no reason to believe he is some draft guru (he even takes a lot of the blame for the Bennett pick). I actually like Hayes and he seemed like a nice kid when he spoke at the HS Final 4 when he was there, but I have my doubts he'll be anything more than just an OK player. Have a feeling the majority of the rest of the picks received will be late teens or 20s.

 

[dtgold88]

Pretty much agree.

Sometimes GMs are just victims of circumstance.

Ryan Grigson won Executive of the Year because of his brilliance of having the No. 1 overall pick and taking the universally agreed to pick of Andrew Luck. Sometimes they get huge credit for just doing their job.

I think that David Griffin is a good GM. But I want to see him do something really notable before I will say he is a great GM.

This....so far, as mentioned, his best pick was Joe Harris (before Zion fell in his lap) and he let him go. Best trade he made was for Moz, JR and Shump. Solid deal but doesn't get made with all the assets he still had available even after using others left to him in the Love deal. Korver and Frye were solid pickups as well, but not the "notable" deal I think you are talking about to think he's great.

Maybe he made that deal for AD or on draft night. we'll see.

 

[tlance]

while I think A- (maybe B+) seems a little high for the draft grade, I guess it can be justified because of Zion - though Griff had nothing to do with that. I guess he did fine, but I agree with you I'd probably have stayed at 4, though we don't know how they valued the guys available there. Other picks, who knows. as we know, draft grades are simple. If the guy grading had the players taken sooner than they went it's a good grade. Later and it is downgraded. I saw some mocks with their #17 pick going mid-late 20s and Hayes in the teens. Guessing that grade would be in the C range.

as for AD? Sure, he did fine, but agree with shane the groundwork was pretty much there. Griff benefited from the Laker pick being as high as 4.

Admittedly, many of my comments on Griff come from the idea he was a "must keep" for the Cavs with some going so far as to make the foolish statement Lebron left because they didn't keep Griff. Lebron cared so much he didn't insist the Lakers hire the unemployed Griffin.

He was a solid GM and I hoped he'd stay (and I really like his work as an analyst as he was brutally honest), but to this date his best draft pick I can come up with was Joe Harris......and he let him go. Sure, not his fault he never had a high pick but no reason to believe he is some draft guru (he even takes a lot of the blame for the Bennett pick). I actually like Hayes and he seemed like a nice kid when he spoke at the HS Final 4 when he was there, but I have my doubts he'll be anything more than just an OK player. Have a feeling the majority of the rest of the picks received will be late teens or 20s.

Why does the draft grade have to be about the GM?

The Pelicans landed a generational prospect. He might not live up to the hype. But Zion alone is worthy of an A grade and they got a couple other nice pieces too.

 

[SideSwipe52]

Given the trades the Jazz has made, I will give them an overall grade of B.

 

[The Q]

After losing Kyrie Danny did pick up assets

The Purdue PG will have immediate impact off the bench and will be a fan favorite. He can shoot and score. So there is that

Langford was ok pick but will be flipped in the year ahead. Maybe kept if Jaylen has to be moved

Grant Williams does not excite me.

Go green

Basically this.

I would’ve taken bol kcee Edward for upside.

And Langford or brown is almost certainly dealt.

I really wanted the frenchy once he fell. A much better frenchy than bear ever dreamed of being

 

[The Q]

Literally everyone lucks into something in the NBA. Nothing happens truly organically.

Name a successful team and I'll show you at least one major piece they lucked into.

The Spurs dynasty was created because the Spurs tanked and lucked into Duncan that year.
The Bulls lucked into Jordan falling to 3rd.
The Warriors lucked into Curry falling to 9th.
The Knicks "lucked" into Ewing the first year the draft was incepted.
The Cavs lucked into Lebron the first time around. Kid from Ohio gets drafted by Cleveland.
The Cavs lucked into Kyrie from the Clippers pick.

You can go on and on with "luck". The NBA in general is a completely crap shoot when it comes to young players or development of players. You never know truly how good anyone really is going to be. See: Pascal Siakam, Draymond Green, Giannis, etc...

Of course you’re making all my points about why having a lottery is beyond stupid.

Freaking ping pong balls write history. So f’d up. Beyond f’d up.

 

[dtgold88]

Why does the draft grade have to be about the GM?

The Pelicans landed a generational prospect. He might not live up to the hype. But Zion alone is worthy of an A grade and they got a couple other nice pieces too.

Because in most draft grades on NO Griff gets the credit, like the one to which I replied.

But I agree with you. Draft grade can also be about players acquired and even though Griff had nothing to do with zion he counts as one of those.

 

[shopson67]

Well is sounded like Demps was never going to make the deal and he didn't wanted to deal with the Lakers. That could have just been to get more leverage in the offseason but I don't see much more he could have received than Griffin got had he changed his mind and wanted to make a deal this summer. AD could very well be on N.O. still and they have to trade him at the deadline for scraps. Griffin is a damn good GM but I really don't see him getting a ton of praise, I think what he is getting is fair.
As far as the draft goes, he was set at #1. I questioned the trade down from #4 when it happened but the more I think about it from his perspective he was just trying to find guys that fit around Zion, who they want to build around.

Overall I would Griffin a B+ or A- overall. I do think there were a handful of teams that did better in the draft though.

If Griffin gets that high of a grade, Demps gets an 0.0 and should never work in sports again.