AL Central Discussion

[mr.hockey4242]

you're like any fan. you over value your prospects/regulars and devalue others.

and for the record it's not like Alex Faedo didn't have stuff. he's a former first round pick. Who gets injured constantly. every once in a while he puts together a start. it's not because Minnesota is tremendously unlucky.

I havent undervalued any one. Or overvalued anyone.

Im still curious where the Miggy butthurt comes from?? He wasnt attacked int he slightest. Unless having fun with how slow he was on a key play is attacking. I think Miggy would say hes slow as shit. Hes 40, thats just fact. Guys get old and are corpses. See Adam Wainwright. Hell of a pitcher.

As for Faedo, hes been brutal. Doesnt mean he cant be good. But hes been awful. Hes now shut the Twins down multiple times. Last week he was much better than his line. 1 bad inning, 2 bad pitches(really only the Gallo one was bad. Correas bomb was nice hitting to a deep park). Twins have been confounded by Joey Wentz twice(hit him the 3rd time) and Reese Olson has dominated them twice.

Its just fact that guys the rest of the league are hitting, the Twins are not. Not sure why youre taking offense haha. Im ripping on my own team.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I havent undervalued any one. Or overvalued anyone.

Im still curious where the Miggy butthurt comes from?? He wasnt attacked int he slightest. Unless having fun with how slow he was on a key play is attacking. I think Miggy would say hes slow as shit. Hes 40, thats just fact. Guys get old and are corpses. See Adam Wainwright. Hell of a pitcher.

As for Faedo, hes been brutal. Doesnt mean he cant be good. But hes been awful. Hes now shut the Twins down multiple times. Last week he was much better than his line. 1 bad inning, 2 bad pitches(really only the Gallo one was bad. Correas bomb was nice hitting to a deep park). Twins have been confounded by Joey Wentz twice(hit him the 3rd time) and Reese Olson has dominated them twice.

Its just fact that guys the rest of the league are hitting, the Twins are not. Not sure why youre taking offense haha. Im ripping on my own team.

no offense at all. Just pointing out there are stats supporting why Faedo can piece together a good start. His WHIP is now sub 1. if he keeps the ball in the park he does fine. Olson actually also has pretty good stuff. He has a better FIP than Joe Ryan. Wentz is trash. That's a fluke.

but this

"Only damage was the corpse of MIggy hitting a bomb. Which was unblievable. THat coupled with us being shutout by another shitty Tigers pitcher is par the course. Tigers randomly have our number this year. We go full Simple Jack against these guys. Horrid at bats."

is my point.

Since Detroit managed to bring back a semblance of a rotation they've been 11th in FIP, 12th in ERA in all of baseball. not exactly the 90s Braves or anything but better than league average. And that's facing teams knowing they have one of the worst offenses in baseball so you're not exactly pressing.

The Twins are more likely than not winning this division. but it's because the division sucks.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I don't love WAR for everything. Miggy isn't a top 100 WAR guy but there are only 7 players with 3000 hits and 500 hrs. Morneau was a meh defender and because he's a 1b his WAR faces stiffer comp offensively. His injuries left him a shell of himself by 29

I wouldn't really compare the 2 players

true.....its not perfect that is for sure----- no single stat really is.

Kenny Lofton has a ridiculous WAR and is not in the hall of fame which is kind of a travesty if you ask me. WAR does tend to underestimate mashers like a Miggy or a Thome who were not anything special defensively.

though- especially with the shift rules changed- I think defense is once again becoming a more important part of the game again and front offices are focusing on it more.

is Miggy inner-circle hall of fame? I think that is a good question. If he is not- he is damn sure close. One of the best hitters- maybe the best hitter of his generation. I would say "inner circle" is top 10-20% percent??? is that fair?

If we look at the last 50 guys to make the hall of fame-(or will coming up) is Miggy top 5-10? I think its very possible.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Dude, because Wiggy is an idiot do you not know the guy?? I feel like you are pretty active on the NBA board.

He keeps talking in ciricles changing his guidlines for evaluating a player.

If its a Guardian like Gimenez hes a proven star because he had a great season even though he followed it up with trash. If its a pitcher like Ober or like Ryan hes not proven. At the time he said this Joe had a 3.5 era season with 150 inning season. Then Joe at the time was at a 2.9 and wasnt proven. Now Ryan imploded over 7 starts and and has a 4.4. Hes no unproven. But Gimenez is proven. THey both had great first full seasons then hit a rough patch ahha.


Sonny Gray is a fluke but Cal Quantril isnt(this one is hilarious)

The Polanco thing was him saying weeks ago that Polanco coming back soon wasnt a big deal for the Twins. I pointed out that Polanco is a consistent producers of 110 OPS+ or better yearly(aside from covid season) since like 2018 with good D. He started speaking nonsense about Gimenez. And I told him his exact argument about Ober and Ryan was that they hadnt proven SUSTAINED success of solidly above average play. Which is what Polanco has and Gimenez hasnt.

All I said was that the Twins were about to get Polanco back which is a huge boost considering we keep trotting out Kyle Farmer and Willi Castro for infield starts.......tho ironically Polanco is a bit rusty coming back and really hes just walking more than those two bozos so far.

I never said "if i am starting a baseball team today I want Polanco".

This dude tried arguing the Twins offense(as mehhhh as it is) wasnt definitively better than the Guardians weeks ago.

You are attempting to jump in out of nowhere on a convo featuring Wiggy, the losing his argument and goes to a new one every 2 minutes. Im just calling out his logic.

Hence the Morneau/Ramirez thing. Or my Brady Anderson reference.

thats a lot of words to try and defend stupidity like Polanco is more valuable than Gimenez......or to be so excited about Julien only to see him benched and dropped in the lineup lately and come shooting back down to earth

Everything I told you would happen has happened

Lynn got better when you ripped on me for saying it. Syndegaard has imrpoved. Julien came shooting down. The combined 2.5 ERA of Gray, Ober and Ryan in June has come crashing down just like I said it would.

a lot of words to cover up that you have been wrong a lot and I have been right a lot lately.

more often than not - time vindicates.

 

[WiggyRuss]

no offense at all. Just pointing out there are stats supporting why Faedo can piece together a good start. His WHIP is now sub 1. if he keeps the ball in the park he does fine. Olson actually also has pretty good stuff. He has a better FIP than Joe Ryan. Wentz is trash. That's a fluke.

but this

"Only damage was the corpse of MIggy hitting a bomb. Which was unblievable. THat coupled with us being shutout by another shitty Tigers pitcher is par the course. Tigers randomly have our number this year. We go full Simple Jack against these guys. Horrid at bats."

is my point.

Since Detroit managed to bring back a semblance of a rotation they've been 11th in FIP, 12th in ERA in all of baseball. not exactly the 90s Braves or anything but better than league average. And that's facing teams knowing they have one of the worst offenses in baseball so you're not exactly pressing.

The Twins are more likely than not winning this division. but it's because the division sucks.

yah Tigers rotation def. has some potential coming down the line. Just have to get guys healthy which is often easier said then done. Out of Mize, Skubal, Manning and Eduardo- if he stays- they should have a solid base.

Riley looks like he is going to be a very good player. Torkelson has to be closer to .260/.350 with some power as a floor if he is going to be an impact guy. I think he wil lget there eventually but you never know.

Baez is a brutal signing but at least it wasnt as expensive as Correa who seems to not give a fuck after getting his bag. lol.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'll tell ya though- if Espino and McKenzie can get healthy- even if they trade Bieber- that is going to be a freaking scary rotation in Cleveland. Williams has ace stuff. Bibee just knows how to pitch. Allen is a solid lefty with a funky arm angle who I think will put together some solid years.

Espino will blow them all away though if he gets healthy- which of course is a big IF- but his stuff is Eury Perez/Andrew Painter level. So often those young pitchers get hurt though.

@Stakesarehigh what young position players do you have hope for on the Tigers going forward beside Greene and Torkelson? Anyone really? Carpenter seems decent. I think Jung has a very high floor and should be a solid 2nd basemen sooner than later. Anyone on the major league roster you think will stick around long term position players wise beside Greene, Torkelson and Carpenter?

Itll be interesting to see how things go this winter. Twins will prob. lose Gray and it looks like Ryan at a 4.40 era and hurt has taken a step back. McKEnzie and Bieber have both had serious injuries but appear to have avoided surgery--- though I stillthink there is a chance either one has a setup back that requires TJ.....I hope not but there is always that chance. White Sox and Royals pitching are both terrible messes. Koepech would be so much better if he was in an organization that could develop pitching like Cleveland.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Baez has 4 more years left at about a 100 M total I think. Cabrera still has 2 years left.....you think he plays both of those years or does 1 more and takes a settlement on the last year? Dude is already 40 and has plenty of money @Stakesarehigh

Not sure if I would rather have Baez at 4/100 or Correa at 5 170........Correa turns 29 in September.

 

[broncosmitty]

Baez has 4 more years left at about a 100 M total I think. Cabrera still has 2 years left.....you think he plays both of those years or does 1 more and takes a settlement on the last year? Dude is already 40 and has plenty of money @Stakesarehigh

Not sure if I would rather have Baez at 4/100 or Correa at 5 170........Correa turns 29 in September.

Cabrera is done at the end of the season. Believe they worked out a deal in the offseason so he gets some of the money from those vested seasons, but doesn’t have to occupy a roster spot to get it.

Baez has an opt out, like ERod. He just sucks so much that nobody bothers to mention it. Horrible contract for sure.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I'll tell ya though- if Espino and McKenzie can get healthy- even if they trade Bieber- that is going to be a freaking scary rotation in Cleveland. Williams has ace stuff. Bibee just knows how to pitch. Allen is a solid lefty with a funky arm angle who I think will put together some solid years.

Espino will blow them all away though if he gets healthy- which of course is a big IF- but his stuff is Eury Perez/Andrew Painter level. So often those young pitchers get hurt though.

@Stakesarehigh what young position players do you have hope for on the Tigers going forward beside Greene and Torkelson? Anyone really? Carpenter seems decent. I think Jung has a very high floor and should be a solid 2nd basemen sooner than later. Anyone on the major league roster you think will stick around long term position players wise beside Greene, Torkelson and Carpenter?

Itll be interesting to see how things go this winter. Twins will prob. lose Gray and it looks like Ryan at a 4.40 era and hurt has taken a step back. McKEnzie and Bieber have both had serious injuries but appear to have avoided surgery--- though I stillthink there is a chance either one has a setup back that requires TJ.....I hope not but there is always that chance. White Sox and Royals pitching are both terrible messes. Koepech would be so much better if he was in an organization that could develop pitching like Cleveland.

Colt Keith is the guy every one has an eye on. he was crushing AA pitching at 21. He's probably on a 25 trajectory though unless he absolutely starts crushing AAA next year.

Mallory and Parker Meadows (yes Austin's brother) are both likely with Detroit next year. Both above 850 in Toledo right now. Dingler at C is probably 3rd most ready and then you have Jung.


Then the 2 guys they drafted this year in Clark (wanted Langford) and the SS

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Cabrera is done at the end of the season. Believe they worked out a deal in the offseason so he gets some of the money from those vested seasons, but doesn’t have to occupy a roster spot to get it.

Baez has an opt out, like ERod. He just sucks so much that nobody bothers to mention it. Horrible contract for sure.

I was way wrong on Baez. thought he'd be good enough to warrant the deal.

I feel like E Rod is gone but it would be awesome to be wrong

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Cabrera is done at the end of the season. Believe they worked out a deal in the offseason so he gets some of the money from those vested seasons, but doesn’t have to occupy a roster spot to get it.

Baez has an opt out, like ERod. He just sucks so much that nobody bothers to mention it. Horrible contract for sure.

I was way wrong on Baez. thought he'd be good enough to warrant the deal.

I feel like E Rod is gone but it would be awesome to be wrong

Baez has 4 more years left at about a 100 M total I think. Cabrera still has 2 years left.....you think he plays both of those years or does 1 more and takes a settlement on the last year? Dude is already 40 and has plenty of money @Stakesarehigh

Not sure if I would rather have Baez at 4/100 or Correa at 5 170........Correa turns 29 in September.

miggy is done

he is getting his goodbyes on every road trip

 

[broncosmitty]

I was way wrong on Baez. thought he'd be good enough to warrant the deal.

I feel like E Rod is gone but it would be awesome to be wrong

I can’t stand watching him bat. Unbelievably awful approach to hitting.

I remember just being happy we didn’t sign Correa. Lol. But at the time I think I’d hoped he’d opt out. No way that will happen now.

ERod might actually want to stick around. But he’s gonna get paid.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I can’t stand watching him bat. Unbelievably awful approach to hitting.

I remember just being happy we didn’t sign Correa. Lol. But at the time I think I’d hoped he’d opt out. No way that will happen now.

ERod might actually want to stick around. But he’s gonna get paid.

if he could just get to 700 OPS it wouldn't be completely terrible. But sub 600 is absurd. it's like he doesn't give a shit.

it's also of note he led all shortstops in defense in 2019...then got paid and has been just above average since.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

no offense at all. Just pointing out there are stats supporting why Faedo can piece together a good start. His WHIP is now sub 1. if he keeps the ball in the park he does fine. Olson actually also has pretty good stuff. He has a better FIP than Joe Ryan. Wentz is trash. That's a fluke.

but this

"Only damage was the corpse of MIggy hitting a bomb. Which was unblievable. THat coupled with us being shutout by another shitty Tigers pitcher is par the course. Tigers randomly have our number this year. We go full Simple Jack against these guys. Horrid at bats."

is my point.

Since Detroit managed to bring back a semblance of a rotation they've been 11th in FIP, 12th in ERA in all of baseball. not exactly the 90s Braves or anything but better than league average. And that's facing teams knowing they have one of the worst offenses in baseball so you're not exactly pressing.

The Twins are more likely than not winning this division. but it's because the division sucks.

Faedo did shut down the Padres the most disappointing team in the league. But he has not been good otherwise. You dont have to take offense to it ha. But he objectively came in with a 5.8 era, allowing 2 homers per 9, solidly less than a K per 9 in both his years and a FIP that while lower was still in the 5s. Twins just faced him last week too so theres no excuse of not being able to hit him. We just dont hit the Tigers make shift guys well.

Erod and SKubal?? Thats fine they are lefties(we suck vs them) and proven to get outs at the MLB level.

As for Olson, again he may have good stuff. He may have an elite career. But reight now?? Hes been shit against MLB teams if you take out the Twins.

Against the Twins this year 11 1/3 innings 6 hits 1 run 17/4 K/BB WHIP of .88

Rest of baseball he has a 5.29 ERA in 49 1/3 innings with 41 Ks and a WHIP of 1.2

And again we were shut down by Wentz twice. It was a perfectly accurate comment. For whatever reason the Tigers pitchers have had our number this year. Right now they have been pitching shitty in the major leagues aside from against us. Thats just an objective fact. Its an issue with the Twins offense and they their high K rates. George Kirby(great pitcher) has astrononomical K totals against us in two starts while averaging well under 1 per inning against any one else.

As for the Miggy thing, the dude had one home run all year and a .339 slug. Him hitting it 438 was unbelievable. Miggy himself said WOW. What are we doing here?? Doesnt mean Miggy didnt have a HOF career. But at the plate hes a singles .255 singles hitter thats just what he is. So serving up a tank to his corpse was shocking and par the course for the Twins season vs Tigers.

If Vazquez hits two homers today(he wont) I give you full permission to say Tigers are only team in baseball to give up a 2 homer game to shitty ass vazquez. Its not offensive when its literally true.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

thats a lot of words to try and defend stupidity like Polanco is more valuable than Gimenez......or to be so excited about Julien only to see him benched and dropped in the lineup lately and come shooting back down to earth

Everything I told you would happen has happened

Lynn got better when you ripped on me for saying it. Syndegaard has imrpoved. Julien came shooting down. The combined 2.5 ERA of Gray, Ober and Ryan in June has come crashing down just like I said it would.

a lot of words to cover up that you have been wrong a lot and I have been right a lot lately.

more often than not - time vindicates.

Didnt say it

Hasnt been benched or dropped int he lineup.

No He hasnt

You are really fucking stupid

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I was way wrong on Baez. thought he'd be good enough to warrant the deal.

I feel like E Rod is gone but it would be awesome to be wrong

TBH I think Erod bailing(aside from the fact you got boned on the no trade is a good thing). The guy is too much of a headcase hasnt had sustained success at 30 and is going to get waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than hes likely worth.

This of course is mostly assuming Mize and Skubal can be healthy and ready to go again though. Tigers are better off signing a different FA. Either a Lorenzen type again or someone like him.

Not sure if Tigers have anyone else in the minors close to coming, I dont follow that enough. But Skubal, Mize, FA then Olson is a pretty solid top 4 even if theres question marks.

Probably see what Faedo has more as a 5 if you dont sign another. Id punt Manning away. He unlike Olson and Faedo just does not have the stuff.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I can’t stand watching him bat. Unbelievably awful approach to hitting.

I remember just being happy we didn’t sign Correa. Lol. But at the time I think I’d hoped he’d opt out. No way that will happen now.

ERod might actually want to stick around. But he’s gonna get paid.

Dude last Thursdays game against you guys. Jeffers literally set up for the Maeda pitch in the left handed batters box and maeda threw it directly there and Baez swung haha.

Like theres chasing pitches, and then there is flailing so badly that opposing teams just set there catcher over there.

I had never seen something so exaggerated before.

Yall shoulder splurged for Seager hes insane.

 

[broncosmitty]

Dude last Thursdays game against you guys. Jeffers literally set up for the Maeda pitch in the left handed batters box and maeda threw it directly there and Baez swung haha.

Like theres chasing pitches, and then there is flailing so badly that opposing teams just set there catcher over there.

I had never seen something so exaggerated before.

Yall shoulder splurged for Seager hes insane.

Why anyone throws him strikes idk.

If it’s within a foot of the outside corner, he will swing.

One of my biggest knocks on Hinch is that Baez is allowed to be such a fucking joke of a hitter. It’s inexcusable tbh.

Just picked up Olson in my daily…

 

[Stakesarehigh]

TBH I think Erod bailing(aside from the fact you got boned on the no trade is a good thing). The guy is too much of a headcase hasnt had sustained success at 30 and is going to get waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than hes likely worth.

This of course is mostly assuming Mize and Skubal can be healthy and ready to go again though. Tigers are better off signing a different FA. Either a Lorenzen type again or someone like him.

Not sure if Tigers have anyone else in the minors close to coming, I dont follow that enough. But Skubal, Mize, FA then Olson is a pretty solid top 4 even if theres question marks.

Probably see what Faedo has more as a 5 if you dont sign another. Id punt Manning away. He unlike Olson and Faedo just does not have the stuff.

they have Flores Jobe and Madden on deck.

Madden and Flores are much closer.

Manning gets one more year but like everyone else he's been injured.

agreed on the top 4 but that FA will either be E Rod or ? like you said.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Why anyone throws him strikes idk.

If it’s within a foot of the outside corner, he will swing.

One of my biggest knocks on Hinch is that Baez is allowed to be such a fucking joke of a hitter. It’s inexcusable tbh.

Just picked up Olson in my daily…

Yeah kinda Wild that they cant fix Baez at all. That said he did bench Baez and with the contract there may be only so much he can do.

Hinch is a world series manager but it does seem like hes done quite a few questionable things this year. Might be a product of the hand hes dealt though. But Ive seen a lot of tigers fans discontent at times

The Faedo move I thought was nuts. Hes not just dealing but you gotta see what he has for the future, can he finish a gem?? Tigers could have brought in Foley last night and Twins would been licking their chops, just simply to see someone different.