AFCN Hate Guide

[Money]

He can beat some good teams. You don't go 13-4 without beating some good teams. But I don't think he can ever get you to the Superbowl. The teams that go there, they know how and are able to contain Lamar.

"but the top teams will stomp their ass always"

Lamar was one game away from the SB last year. He lost to Mahomes. I don't think he's the only QB with that problem. It's weird (to me) that someone would write off a 5-year starter (2-time MVP) as never being capable of leading a team to the SB...but whatever.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

No...he's definitely a QB. He's a 2-time MVP winning QB at that. He may not fit what you feel a QB should be, but that's probably more of a you problem.

Impressive feat to be a 2x MVP... More than can be said about the likes of Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts, Boomer Esiason, Steve McNair, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton...

But sadly, until he wins a title he's never going to escape being lumped into that group.

 

[Money]

Impressive feat to be a 2x MVP... More than can be said about the likes of Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts, Boomer Esiason, Steve McNair, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton...

But sadly, until he wins a title he's never going to escape being lumped into that group.

I don't think any of those guys (with the probable exception of Cam Newton) were labeled as anything other than a QB by anyone.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I don't think any of those guys (with the probable exception of Cam Newton) were labeled as anything other than a QB by anyone.

Point still stands.

Don't think this is the pedestal you think it is.

 

[Money]

Point still stands.

Don't think this is the pedestal you think it is.

Saying Lamar is a QB and not a RB is putting him on a "pedestal"???

 

[Cincyfan78]

No...he's definitely a QB. He's a 2-time MVP winning QB at that. He may not fit what you feel a QB should be, but that's probably more of a you problem.

Jackson won the MVP.

He was 15th in yards.
He was 8th in comp%
He was 17th in attempts
He was 4th in YPA
He was 16 in YPG of those who played at least 10 games
He was tied 11th in TD

I mean - by all accounts he was a slightly average to above average QB. His only stats that really stick out was YPA and maybe his rating...the rest was good, but certainly not MVP level by any measure of just being a QB.

What set him a part was the fact that he ran for as many yards as he did and how he impacted the game with his legs. He's a hell of an athlete - and likely one of the best in the NFL...but, no - he's not really a QB by any real measure. He's a stud Athlete/RB who happens to be competent enough to throw the ball and play QB...no one outside of Baltimore actually disputes this - and I know a few Bmore fans that admit this...so, maybe it's really a YOU thing - since there isn't any actual facts on the QB side that back up your feelings.

 

[Shanemansj13]

"but the top teams will stomp their ass always"

Lamar was one game away from the SB last year. He lost to Mahomes. I don't think he's the only QB with that problem. It's weird (to me) that someone would write off a 5-year starter (2-time MVP) as never being capable of leading a team to the SB...but whatever.

Bc when the game is on the line, he can rarely sit in the pocket and deliver strikes. Sure the game has changed but as we saw last night he is very inconsistent throwing. His numbers dip dramatically in the playoffs. Why? Bc he is a one trick pony and best teams adjust. Harder to do that week to week with less time to prepare.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I don't think any of those guys (with the probable exception of Cam Newton) were labeled as anything other than a QB by anyone.

Cam was more of a QB than Lamar.

He threw for over 3,000 yards 8 times. 8 straight seasons. Lamar did it twice.
Another 150 carries by Lamar and he will have almost the amount Cam did in his entire career.

Just a RB that can throw better...at times

 

[Money]

Jackson won the MVP.

He was 15th in yards.
He was 8th in comp%
He was 17th in attempts
He was 4th in YPA
He was 16 in YPG of those who played at least 10 games
He was tied 11th in TD

I mean - by all accounts he was a slightly average to above average QB. His only stats that really stick out was YPA and maybe his rating...the rest was good, but certainly not MVP level by any measure of just being a QB.

What set him a part was the fact that he ran for as many yards as he did and how he impacted the game with his legs. He's a hell of an athlete - and likely one of the best in the NFL...but, no - he's not really a QB by any real measure. He's a stud Athlete/RB who happens to be competent enough to throw the ball and play QB...no one outside of Baltimore actually disputes this - and I know a few Bmore fans that admit this...so, maybe it's really a YOU thing - since there isn't any actual facts on the QB side that back up your feelings.

At some point...it's going to dawn on you that maybe the QB position is evolving and it's not so easy to put a label on what a QB should be. Maybe at that point...you can catch up to the game.

 

[Cincyfan78]

To further contrast the QB's who won MVP:

2022: Patrick Mahomes.
He threw for 5,250 yards - NFL rank 1st.
He threw for 41 TD - NFL rank 1st.
He threw 648 times - NFL rank 3rd.
He completed 67% - NFL rank 7th
He threw for 308 YPG - NFL rank 1st
His rating was ranked 3rd that year.

2021: Aaron Rodgers
He threw for 4,115 yards - NFL rank 10th
He threw for 37 TD - NFL rank 4th (also only 4 INT in 16 games - absurd)
He threw 531 times - NFL rank 12th
He completed 69% of his passes - NFL rank 3rd
He had 7.8 YPA - NFL rank 7th
Rating was 2nd

2020: Aaron Rodgers
Threw for 48 TD's and just 5 INT's...absurd - NFL rank 1st
Threw for 4,299 yards - NFL rank 7th.
Threw for YPA of 8.2 - NFL rank 4th.
He attempted 526 passes - NFL rank 12th
YPG - 9th.
Rating - 2nd.

Of the last for MVP winners/stats....one of these isn't quite the same as the others...

 

[Cincyfan78]

At some point...it's going to dawn on you that maybe the QB position is evolving and it's not so easy to put a label on what a QB should be. Maybe at that point...you can catch up to the game.

At some point it will dawn on you that nearly every era has 1 guy that does what Lamar has done or is doing - and they all said they would be the one to "redefine" the position. Randall Cunningham. Michael Vick. Kordell Stewart. Lamar Jackson. And yet the NFL is full of guys who THROW the ball as a primary skill function than RUN the ball at this position.

There are far more of the other style QB's than there are of guys like Vick, Cunningham, and Jackson.

This doesn't diminish their value at all as a player - but it's also OK to call them what they are, or more specifically what they are not, when comped to their peers of the same position.

 

[Money]

Of the last for MVP winners/stats....one of these isn't quite the same as the others...

Yep...Lamar is certainly different. He's still a QB though (no matter how much you don't want him to be).

 

[Cincyfan78]

Yep...Lamar is certainly different. He's still a QB though (no matter how much you don't want him to be).

Sure - he's a QB because that's what he plays.

But as a passer - he's mid at best. His best attribute is his legs...that makes him valuable at QB where he can utilize that skill function - but it's also why in a wide-open passing league - when games are on the line and his arm is needed...he falters far more than not.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Saying Lamar is a QB and not a RB is putting him on a "pedestal"???

Unless I'm mistaken, you're counterpoint to mine about him bein lumped in with that group of QBs I listed, is that he is also labeled as a RB (by sayin they weren't).

So with that thought... Yes, you're placing him on a pedestal

 

[Money]

Sure - he's a QB because that's what he plays.

But as a passer - he's mid at best. His best attribute is his legs...that makes him valuable at QB where he can utilize that skill function - but it's also why in a wide-open passing league - when games are on the line and his arm is needed...he falters far more than not.

This was your original statement:

"The trap that the Ravens, and Lamar, fall into every year is that they all so desperately want him to be a QB...when he's not. He's a really freaking good RB"

 

[Cincyfan78]

This was your original statement:

"The trap that the Ravens, and Lamar, fall into every year is that they all so desperately want him to be a QB...when he's not. He's a really freaking good RB"

Right.

He's a QB by positional name, but he's a RB by skill-set. It's not that hard to understand.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Fraudulent? The real Cleveland Browns franchise resides in Baltimore

 

[Money]

Unless I'm mistaken, you're counterpoint to mine about him bein lumped in with that group of QBs I listed, is that he is also labeled as a RB (by sayin they weren't).

So with that thought... Yes, you're placing him on a pedestal

It may have gotten lost (with a several different posters positing different angles), but my point is this:

Lamar Jackson is a QB. He's a pretty freaking good QB. He's a 2-time MVP winning QB. He may not fit the ideal of "QB" that some have, but that doesn't make him any less of a QB. People can state he will never win a SB. Maybe he won't. He hasn't in his first 5 years in the league. It certainly seems like he's going to need to get past Mahomes in order to do it. Pretty tough task. Whatever. He's still a QB and always will be.

 

[Superbelt]

He's a one-and-a-half trick pony.

The half-trick that he is missing as a passer is not made up by the other full trick that he does really really well. He's just missing that dimension as a passer, and you still really do need that to get a Lombardi in the NFL.

He IS a QB, but he isn't good enough at passing, and running well just doesn't make up for it.

 

[Wamu]

I hate it....lol

So do I. Those damn Steelers!!!!