AFCN Hate Guide

[Cincyfan78]

I'm just not throwing 250+ guaranteed (which is apparently the sticking part - guaranteed contract) at a QB who's offense revolves around his ability to run at least 1/3 of the time and the threat of his legs impacting nearly every passing play.

The minute those legs go - it is going to be an issue. He's shown no real consistency as a pocket passer - he's not terrible, but again - it's hard to gauge accurately because teams still respect his legs. The minute that goes away - I would have some real concerns about his ability to be a top tier QB in this league.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Pure Steel]

I'm just not throwing 250+ guaranteed (which is apparently the sticking part - guaranteed contract) at a QB who's offense revolves around his ability to run at least 1/3 of the time and the threat of his legs impacting nearly every passing play.

The minute those legs go - it is going to be an issue. He's shown no real consistency as a pocket passer - he's not terrible, but again - it's hard to gauge accurately because teams still respect his legs. The minute that goes away - I would have some real concerns about his ability to be a top tier QB in this league.

Just my thoughts.

Yup, once my legs went, I was usually found drinking on a couch or a barstool......

 

[blue_suns]

I'm just not throwing 250+ guaranteed (which is apparently the sticking part - guaranteed contract) at a QB who's offense revolves around his ability to run at least 1/3 of the time and the threat of his legs impacting nearly every passing play.

The minute those legs go - it is going to be an issue. He's shown no real consistency as a pocket passer - he's not terrible, but again - it's hard to gauge accurately because teams still respect his legs. The minute that goes away - I would have some real concerns about his ability to be a top tier QB in this league.

Just my thoughts.

Which is why it'd be nice to have other weapons besides Lamar for defenses to focus on so it's not all on him
Better even if they're used effectively, which has not been the case the past few years

 

[cincygrad]

They gambled this offseason with having Bateman and Duverney as the starting WRs (which I didn't mind, why draft receivers if you never plan on letting them play)

Now Bateman's out for the year and Roman is fucking braindead - can't get playcalls out in time this late in the season, calls a screen pass to a 340lb FB on 2nd and 14, not finding creative ways to get balls to receivers other than Andrews.

Dude gets unreal hate for things other QBs have done. Not justifying his tweet, but there's no way you're mainly blaming him for that loss.

This team struggles to play 60 minutes of football - outside of 2019, been that way since Flacco was the starter. Ravens would be a bottom 10 team without him.

This is sorta my perspective.... I think Lamar is becoming the fall-guy for issues that continue to plague the Ravens, but I don't think he deserves as much blame as he receives. I know a lot of Ravens fans are critical of Harbaugh and put some blame on him, but the national narrative is all about Larmar.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

This is sorta my perspective.... I think Lamar is becoming the fall-guy for issues that continue to plague the Ravens, but I don't think he deserves as much blame as he receives. I know a lot of Ravens fans are critical of Harbaugh and put some blame on him, but the national narrative is all about Larmar.

I agree with this. Lamar's talent is undeniable. But the problem is with tailoring an offense around a player like that, and not doing enough to build around it. They ante'd up plenty over the years. Bolstering the OL & pretty much telling the entire league that they are going to run the ball & daring them to stop them. It's vanilla, but a big problem is their defense not living up to the bill to make that work (letting Wink go was an odd choice). That sort of offense really only excels if they aren't down 2 possessions. We've seen it every year with this team. They have been forced to rely heavily on Lamar's homerun ability to dig them out of every hole.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Which is why it'd be nice to have other weapons besides Lamar for defenses to focus on so it's not all on him
Better even if they're used effectively, which has not been the case the past few years

Well they had one and they traded him away…Lamar was not happy

 

[Cincyfan78]

Which is why it'd be nice to have other weapons besides Lamar for defenses to focus on so it's not all on him
Better even if they're used effectively, which has not been the case the past few years

Agreed, but it still doesn't mitigate his passing, or lack there of - with regards to consistency. You can add WR's and such as you like, but as teams stop fearing his ability to run, they will take away more of his ability to pass, which is already inconsistent.

That was more my point. Going further down the road, I would extend him, but I'm not going to tie 250+ in guaranteed money to him not knowing how well he's going to be able to do his job once his legs go - and he's no longer a true running threat. So much of what he does is built on that threat - once it's gone...even if you have playmakers at WR along with Andrews at TE - can he do enough consistently to take advantage of them.

I have my doubts, personally.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Which is why it'd be nice to have other weapons besides Lamar for defenses to focus on so it's not all on him
Better even if they're used effectively, which has not been the case the past few years

Do you think if he had to mostly be a pocket passer he would be worth that deal

Because we are seeing what happened to Russ minus his legs in real time and he is a better passer albeit lesser athlete

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Well they had one and they traded him away…Lamar was not happy

Because he didn't want to be there lol

 

[blue_suns]

Because he didn't want to be there lol

Because of Roman's system - Hollywood, Dez Bryant, Willie Snead all said the same thing when they left

His offensive has never been WR friendly

 

[blue_suns]

Agreed, but it still doesn't mitigate his passing, or lack there of - with regards to consistency. You can add WR's and such as you like, but as teams stop fearing his ability to run, they will take away more of his ability to pass, which is already inconsistent.

That was more my point. Going further down the road, I would extend him, but I'm not going to tie 250+ in guaranteed money to him not knowing how well he's going to be able to do his job once his legs go - and he's no longer a true running threat. So much of what he does is built on that threat - once it's gone...even if you have playmakers at WR along with Andrews at TE - can he do enough consistently to take advantage of them.

I have my doubts, personally.

I mean you gotta blame the Browns for setting the precedent on that guarat. money
QB's that have done less are getting these deals, it's just Lamar's turn now
Luckily the cap is expected to increase by a lot soon so it shouldn't be as bad

Lamar isn't even 26 yet - if he's signed to a 5-6 year deal, he'll be in his early thirties when it ends (where you'd expect a drop off)
Major injuries withstanding, even losing a step is still better than 90% of the league

 

[Battlelyon]

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Agreed, but it still doesn't mitigate his passing, or lack there of - with regards to consistency. You can add WR's and such as you like, but as teams stop fearing his ability to run, they will take away more of his ability to pass, which is already inconsistent.

That was more my point. Going further down the road, I would extend him, but I'm not going to tie 250+ in guaranteed money to him not knowing how well he's going to be able to do his job once his legs go - and he's no longer a true running threat. So much of what he does is built on that threat - once it's gone...even if you have playmakers at WR along with Andrews at TE - can he do enough consistently to take advantage of them.

I have my doubts, personally.

I think Lamar is worth the $250 guaranteed, in this next contract only. You can assume that at his age, he will bounce back rather quickly if he does get hurt. He has shown good awareness and done a real nice job given the lack of weapons he has. By the end of a 5 year / $250 million dollar contract he will be getting ready to hit 31. At that point he probably doesn't have same mobility which makes him no longer worth it unless you surround him with talent and let him be a point guard rather than the featured attraction.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think Lamar is worth the $250 guaranteed, in this next contract only. You can assume that at his age, he will bounce back rather quickly if he does get hurt. He has shown good awareness and done a real nice job given the lack of weapons he has. By the end of a 5 year / $250 million dollar contract he will be getting ready to hit 31. At that point he probably doesn't have same mobility which makes him no longer worth it unless you surround him with talent and let him be a point guard rather than the featured attraction.

The Browns did it because they are/were A: Stupid and B: Desperate.

Not giving a guy who's had 1 super year, and the rest have been good, above average really but not special, a guaranteed contract. Just me, though I suppose.

The other issue is - you have to ASSUME his legs will hold out for another 5 years....and while I agree he should be fine as per his age, RB's usually start showing declines around that 2nd contract, and rarely see the 3rd. While He won't be taking the same shots as a true RB, he's also not built like a RB (granted built well for his style). Whichever way it goes - I just think it's totally fair to have some reservations about giving a QB who uses his legs as a big part of his passing game, a guaranteed contract north of $250.

I don't fault him at all for trying to get as much as he can...no fault there, but if I'm the Ravens....I'm looking at contingency plans.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

 

[Cincyfan78]

 

[Wamu]

 

[Shanemansj13]

Because of Roman's system - Hollywood, Dez Bryant, Willie Snead all said the same thing when they left

His offensive has never been WR friendly

Well yeah but they catered it around Lamar. You say he needs another WR but he's had weapons in the past and they could not get the full-potential out him. The system works for Lamar, the problem is they have to cater a system around him to maximize his running game and team's strength bc Lamar isn't a great passer. Lamar isn't succeeding in a Mahomes' type of offensive scheme.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Buddy of mine who is a Browns fan thinks the best thing the Browns could maybe do is trade Garrett for a massive haul and get their picks back, reallocate funds to more of the defense.

 

[Shanemansj13]

The Browns did it because they are/were A: Stupid and B: Desperate.

Not giving a guy who's had 1 super year, and the rest have been good, above average really but not special, a guaranteed contract. Just me, though I suppose.

The other issue is - you have to ASSUME his legs will hold out for another 5 years....and while I agree he should be fine as per his age, RB's usually start showing declines around that 2nd contract, and rarely see the 3rd. While He won't be taking the same shots as a true RB, he's also not built like a RB (granted built well for his style). Whichever way it goes - I just think it's totally fair to have some reservations about giving a QB who uses his legs as a big part of his passing game, a guaranteed contract north of $250.

I don't fault him at all for trying to get as much as he can...no fault there, but if I'm the Ravens....I'm looking at contingency plans.

The Browns were desperate, sure, I will agree with that. They are QB hungry, to get over the top the guaranteed money did the trick.

Stupid? Is it stupid to secure your franchise QB when the guy is only 27 and the Browns core is ready to win NOW. The Browns have planned financially to pay a franchise QB but it's not easy to find one these days. They rarely hit the market, you have to trade for one and the other option is drafting one which is hard to do when average or fringe-playoff team. That is far from stupid. Sure, if he totally falls below expectations it will look stupid in the future but that isn't the case now. He definitely will have some rust and it will take time no doubt.

As far as the Ravens, they built their entire system around Lamar. They are playing hardball with Lamar and for good reason. He is a franchise QB and a gamechanger but in the biggest games in the playoffs his arm hurts them. It is very difficult to win a Super Bowl with a QB that isn't a pure passer or a dual threat guy. Lamar is just too inconsistent especially if facing playoff teams who have weeks to scheme for him and make him throw play after play. All that being said, I think they should pay him for the simple fact is who is their other option. If they had other options through trade, FA or the draft then I would consider but as of right now....they are stuck in a corner. The only question is now is how much money is Lamar getting and how much is guaranteed.