49ers or Eagles. Which franchise has been dumber this off season?

[SteveDallas]

Got to say it will be hard to out dumb the 49ers this offseason but it looks like Chip is gonna give it a shot.

 

[_phiLLies_]

kelly has obviously taken some risk, but in no way has their offseason been anything close to "dumb." their defense has upgraded significantly by keeping graham while adding alonso, maxwell and thurmond. QB can be described as a wash and RB a downgrade. so that leaves the loss of maclin, who was paid quite a bit. that is the only area i'm truly concerned about.

 

[ducky]

The 49ers really haven't been dumb (other than forcing their coach out). They have just had to make the hard decisions that come with being an aging team.

Smith is an upgrade over Crabtree especially working opposite Boldin.
Letting Gore walk was something they knew they were going to do since last year's draft and the right move.
Willis and Smith retired. Nothing SF could have done there.
Signing a vet like Dockett knowing they were losing Smith wasn't a bad move.

So I voted for the Eagles. Because I can't make heads or tails exactly what Kelly is trying to accomplish there.

 

[Iggloo]

The Niners are devastated by retirements, off-field problems and front office/coaching turmoil.

The Eagles are devastated by a coach who got GM powers and proceeded to completely trash the entire roster in favor of injured vets who failed to live up to draft expectations and Oregon Ducks.

Eagles in a landslide.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Eagles by far.

Best RB weapon - gone, replaced by an overpaid Frank G- Oh wait, that's right he said "F this team."
Best WR weapon - gone to the old coach.
Best QB on the roster - traded for an injury prone/more expensive QB who doesn't fit the system any better.
Draft picks - Traded down/lost value.
Byron Maxwell - Overpaid by $3-4M per year.
Mark Sanchez - Overpaid to be a pseudo backup yet starter?
Replacement ILB - Complete ?/unknown

The one signing they did do that I liked was Brandon Graham. That was good value and Graham may replace Trent Cole in the long term.

With Bradford on the Eagles offense and basically zero weapons outside of Matthews who is coming off a rookie season (now teams have tape on him) and I guess KIND of Ertz, I don't see the Eagles scoring much points anytime soon. In addition, their defense will doubtfully transform overnight as Thurmond can't stay healthy (even though it's a 1 year deal), Maxwell had the luxury of playing on the #1 defense his entire career and best secondary the NFL has probably ever seen... so the defense is not going to that much better than last year.

Eagles are a 7-9 at best team. I remember calling them a 9-7 at best team back in 2011 and was called a hater/etc. when they were paper champs of the year. They ended 8-8 missing the playoffs. I don't see this years team any different, except they're worse now than 2011.

 

[SoShady]

We have 3 ILB's Kiko, Kendricks and Ryans so I think ILB is fine. They didn't want to pay McCoy/Maclin the money they wanted. KC deciding to overpay Maclin isn't really Chip's fault. I'll give you the QB situation is a total mess but who knows if Bradford will even be on the team. All roads seem to still run toward MM. Especially with Chip's willingness to finally rebuild the team in his mold. A rookie QB would only make sense at this point. Though nothing makes much sense to the average football fan at this point. Seems like almost every Seahawk fan rips the Maxwell deal. No one was going to sign him for 3-4 million less a year.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

We have 3 ILB's Kiko, Kendricks and Ryans so I think ILB is fine. They didn't want to pay McCoy/Maclin the money they wanted. KC deciding to overpay Maclin isn't really Chip's fault. I'll give you the QB situation is a total mess but who knows if Bradford will even be on the team. All roads seem to still run toward MM. Especially with Chip's willingness to finally rebuild the team in his mold. A rookie QB would only make sense at this point. Though nothing makes much sense to the average football fan at this point. Seems like almost every Seahawk fan rips the Maxwell deal. No one was going to sign him for 3-4 million less a year.

Most people are ripping the Maxwell deal. Seattle fans knew he wasn't going to resign with us. Someone was going to offer him more and we couldn't even afford throwing 8M or so at him. It's just the team that ended up offering him that was the Eagles. Doesn't mean just because it's 'the eagles' it's not a bad move. Get out of here with this BS. And if you guys do some blockbuster trade which will be prob. worse than RG3 to Skins, that will likely tank your franchise for years to come since Mariota needs a LOT of work to be NFL ready.

Want proof not only Seattle fans thought it was bad?

From 2015 NFL Free Agent Grades: WalterFootball.com a guy who LIVES in Philly and is a known Eagles fan.

Eagles reportedly sign CB Byron Maxwell (6 years, $63M; $25M guaranteed): D Grade
Kareem Jackson received a 4-year deal worth $34 million on Saturday. Brandon Flowers inked a 4-year, $36 million contract earlier today. Both Jackson and Flowers are better and more proven than Byron Maxwell. So, with that in mind, why in the world is Maxwell getting a 6-year, $63 million deal with $25 million guaranteed from Philadelphia?

This contract makes no sense. Maxwell is physically gifted, but he has never been a No. 1 cornerback in the NFL. Richard Sherman was on the other side of the field in Seattle, but Maxwell won't have that sort of luxury in Philadelphia. He also won't have two excellent safeties like Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor aiding him. Asking him to do everything in Philadelphia's secondary is a bit ridiculous, and it's almost certain to backfire.

There's a slight chance this signing works out. As mentioned, Maxwell has lots of talent, and at 27, he'll be in his prime for most of the duration of this contract. He also fits into the defensive scheme well. However, the Eagles are overpaying a player who has never proven that he can cover No. 1 receivers, so there's too much of a risk involved.

 

[ducky]

You know I might actually change my vote after some consideration.

The Eagles are making some strange on the field moves. But that can be fixed with a few signings here and there and a solid draft.

The 49ers running what was one of the most successful coaches in the league during the last 5 years out of the league despite having great success without even an average QB at the helm is something that can't be fixed in the short term.

 

[Hangman]

The only thing bad that has happened to the 49ers is Patrick Willis retiring. Everything else was planned for and taken care of nicely. In fact, Willis' replacement was already on the roster and they still have a strong backup in Wilhoite who has started in place of both Willis and Bowman and looked great out there. Now the 9ers are flush with cash. Signed a Great deal with Torrey Smith that is back loaded after a few years and he can be dropped with no real cap hit.

Now the 49ers need replacement for Culliver and Cox, but again they had that addressed in last years draft and stashed 2 CBs (Acker and Reaser) on the NFI List and drafted 2 more that got a lot of playing time and while one looked average (Ward), the other (Johnson) looked great at times and even started a few games.

49ers can draft BPA in every round cause they really have no immediate needs. I personally would draft a WR to get some experience to replace Boldin next year. But, I can see CB, DL, or OL drafted early on too.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

As to the 9ers... Harbaugh was gone period. I think they poorly replaced him, but I digress.

Justin Smith was bound to retire any day, this was known and I taunted 49ers fans with this routinely over the last couple years (surprisingly met with little resistance since I'm assuming even 49ers fans knew it was true).

Patrick Willis is a surprise but the guy is generally always hurt. He played 6 games last year and San Fran still was a top 5 D so I really don't consider the loss that surprising and if Bowman comes back healthy it's probably upside this year for them.

Smith/Crabtree is a wash... slight overpay for Smith IMO (about $1-2M per year) but not terrible... it's an average C or so grade.

IMO it's close, but Eagles have made SO many questionable moves and it doesn't look like it's stopping anytime soon.

 

[SoShady]

Most people are ripping the Maxwell deal. Seattle fans knew he wasn't going to resign with us. Someone was going to offer him more and we couldn't even afford throwing 8M or so at him. It's just the team that ended up offering him that was the Eagles. Doesn't mean just because it's 'the eagles' it's not a bad move. Get out of here with this BS. And if you guys do some blockbuster trade which will be prob. worse than RG3 to Skins, that will likely tank your franchise for years to come since Mariota needs a LOT of work to be NFL ready.

Want proof not only Seattle fans thought it was bad?

From 2015 NFL Free Agent Grades: WalterFootball.com a guy who LIVES in Philly and is a known Eagles fan.

Eagles reportedly sign CB Byron Maxwell (6 years, $63M; $25M guaranteed): D Grade
Kareem Jackson received a 4-year deal worth $34 million on Saturday. Brandon Flowers inked a 4-year, $36 million contract earlier today. Both Jackson and Flowers are better and more proven than Byron Maxwell. So, with that in mind, why in the world is Maxwell getting a 6-year, $63 million deal with $25 million guaranteed from Philadelphia?

This contract makes no sense. Maxwell is physically gifted, but he has never been a No. 1 cornerback in the NFL. Richard Sherman was on the other side of the field in Seattle, but Maxwell won't have that sort of luxury in Philadelphia. He also won't have two excellent safeties like Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor aiding him. Asking him to do everything in Philadelphia's secondary is a bit ridiculous, and it's almost certain to backfire.

There's a slight chance this signing works out. As mentioned, Maxwell has lots of talent, and at 27, he'll be in his prime for most of the duration of this contract. He also fits into the defensive scheme well. However, the Eagles are overpaying a player who has never proven that he can cover No. 1 receivers, so there's too much of a risk involved.

Well to be fair they tried to sign Kareem Jackson and Byron Maxwell. Deciding to knock him for playing with the best CB in the league thus not being a #1 CB makes absolutley no sense. I don't see how it was a luxury either. Every team came into the games wanting to attack Maxwell for fear of Sherman. Also how many times did he have to actually cover the #1 WR when teams moved them away from Sherman. That article is really ridiculous when you get down to it.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Well to be fair they tried to sign Kareem Jackson and Byron Maxwell. Deciding to knock him for playing with the best CB in the league thus not being a #1 CB makes absolutley no sense. I don't see how it was a luxury either. Every team came into the games wanting to attack Maxwell for fear of Sherman. Also how many times did he have to actually cover the #1 WR when teams moved them away from Sherman. That article is really ridiculous when you get down to it.

Call it whatever you want. Thomas also keeps the deep ball secure and Irvin shut down a lot within 10 yards of the LOS. That's fine they tried to sign Jackson, point is they overpaid for Maxwell and most every analyst with agree with that. Yes there's a chance he could live up to the cash, but it's a LOT of monetary risk for someone a bit unproven.

Seattle outside of GB really didn't play that many lights out wide receivers this year, and when they played Dez Bryant they finally had to put Sherman man on him because Seattle was getting abused.

I don't think the article is knocking him for being a #2 corner, it's that he never technically lined up as a #1 corner and he had an amazing D helping him quite a bit.

Look there's no question Maxwell has talent and CAN definitely live up to the paycheck, but there's a lot of question marks. And when you're going to shell out that kind of money, you want kind of a sure thing.

That's exactly why I thought the Percy Harvin contract of $66M was absolutely freaking ridiculous because he was not really a sure thing. He was injury prone and a headcase. So don't think Seahawks fans are just 'hating' on your team because we lost a player we knew we were going to lose anyway. Seattle has far bigger needs than corner (O-Line, WR, D-Line/pass rush and re-signing Wilson/Wagner).

 

[Hangman]

[QUOTE="Sharkonabicycle, post: 6333955, member: 6447"

Smith/Crabtree is a wash... slight overpay for Smith IMO (about $1-2M per year) but not terrible... it's an average C or so grade.
[/QUOTE]

Smith's Contract looks super nice for the 49ers.
Smith's cap numbers during the course of his contract are $3.6 million this season, $7.6 million in 2016, $9.6 million in 2017, $9.6 million in 2018, and $9.6 million in 2019.

The $22 mill is only fully guaranteed if Smith remains on the roster on April 1 of 2016 and 2017

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Smith's Contract looks super nice for the 49ers.
Smith's cap numbers during the course of his contract are $3.6 million this season, $7.6 million in 2016, $9.6 million in 2017, $9.6 million in 2018, and $9.6 million in 2019.

The $22 mill is only fully guaranteed if Smith remains on the roster on April 1 of 2016 and 2017

That's not too bad. I still think he's a 5 year $35M kind of guy though. But still not terrible.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

You would think that the EAGLES got nothing in return by the rants.

The EAGLES added defensive players at the expense of offensive players.
All the Eagles bashing never makes mention of the potential positives of Alonzo, Graham, Maxwell, and Thurmon

The Eagles havent won a darn playoff game in 6 years while playing horrible defense.
Without improving their defense, they were doomed to another (10-6) first round exit as the absolute peak.

The Patriots showed the world that having all-pro running backs + all-pro receivers while being skimpy on cornerback is the way to win. That has to be true.

But, The Eagles are going to do it diffrently than the world champs. They are going with no-name receiver, no-name running back, and big name defensive backs.

 

[purguy12]

49ers haven't really been dumb. Their moves have been fine(Dockett and T. Smith). They just made a nice pick up. Willis and Smith retiring has nothing to do with the Front office. Yes the coaching search was a mess but overall Im not at who they let go. I didn't want crabtree back, Iupati way to much and Cully is way over rated. I want Cox back.

 

[_phiLLies_]

You would think that the EAGLES got nothing in return by the rants.

The EAGLES added defensive players at the expense of offensive players.
All the Eagles bashing never makes mention of the potential positives of Alonzo, Graham, Maxwell, and Thurmon

The Eagles havent won a darn playoff game in 6 years while playing horrible defense.
Without improving their defense, they were doomed to another (10-6) first round exit as the absolute peak.

The Patriots showed the world that having all-pro running backs + all-pro receivers while being skimpy on cornerback is the way to win. That has to be true.

But, The Eagles are going to do it diffrently than the world champs. They are going with no-name receiver, no-name running back, and big name defensive backs.

yep. no one responded to my earlier post about the improvements. regardless of what's considered an overpay.. they added 2 corners that were desperately needed. they were able to keep graham and add alonso. their front is nasty and underrated.

the drop/upgrade between offense and defense has favored the eagles so far. if they can find someone to step up at receiver, via trade or draft, to go along with matthews.. i don't see a significant fall in production.

it's absurd to see people thinking the eagles will be a 6-7 win team or worse.

 

[purguy12]

I would throw the saints and Jets in this conversation. Saints got nothing back really for the #2 TE and their main offensive threat. Jets over paid for a lot of their players and Added a head case WR while not having a QB. So overall they wasted about 25-30 mill a year for an 8-8 team.

 

[dredinis21]

As to the 9ers... Harbaugh was gone period. I think they poorly replaced him, but I digress.

Justin Smith was bound to retire any day, this was known and I taunted 49ers fans with this routinely over the last couple years (surprisingly met with little resistance since I'm assuming even 49ers fans knew it was true).

Patrick Willis is a surprise but the guy is generally always hurt. He played 6 games last year and San Fran still was a top 5 D so I really don't consider the loss that surprising and if Bowman comes back healthy it's probably upside this year for them.

Smith/Crabtree is a wash... slight overpay for Smith IMO (about $1-2M per year) but not terrible... it's an average C or so grade.

IMO it's close, but Eagles have made SO many questionable moves and it doesn't look like it's stopping anytime soon.

This is where you are talking out of your ass. Both bolded points are false top to bottom.

Willis is no Okung, the guy plays through nagging injuries. In fact, his games played over the course of his career:
2014-6
2013-14
2012-16
2011-13
2010-15
2009-16
2008-16
2007-16

With regards to Smith vs Crabtree. There are two different arguments to debunk your "wash". First, simply look at stats and you will see Torrey Smith is a significant upgrade in pure production alone. Try Google. Second, understand the role each would play in the offense. Having Stevie Johnson, Boldin, and Crabtree is redundant given all 3 offering similar skill sets. Torrey Smith provides the Niners with a much needed deep threat, something seriously lacking for awhile now.

 

[dredinis21]

You would think that the EAGLES got nothing in return by the rants.

The EAGLES added defensive players at the expense of offensive players.
All the Eagles bashing never makes mention of the potential positives of Alonzo, Graham, Maxwell, and Thurmon

The Eagles havent won a darn playoff game in 6 years while playing horrible defense.
Without improving their defense, they were doomed to another (10-6) first round exit as the absolute peak.

The Patriots showed the world that having all-pro running backs + all-pro receivers while being skimpy on cornerback is the way to win. That has to be true.

But, The Eagles are going to do it diffrently than the world champs. They are going with no-name receiver, no-name running back, and big name defensive backs.

From an outsider's perspective, it looks like the EAGLES added defensive players at the expense of their entire offense.