2023 Rosterbation

[msgkings322]

2005-2008 was pretty rough but it helped the team draft and acquire the core 2010-2014 teams. Its time to go through 2005-2008 again.

That's my thinking on it, but was 2005-2008 a purposeful tear down or were they just bad?

 

[Robotech]

2005-2008 was pretty rough but it helped the team draft and acquire the core 2010-2014 teams. Its time to go through 2005-2008 again.

Yup. That's the one time during out lifetime that the Giants got the draft and player development thing right. Such an incredible era.

 

[msgkings322]

Good point. And the draft is tough to get right. Giants will select the Tony Torcato over the CC Sabathia. The Giants' image looks terrible right now. Who knows what they'll do? Diehards will be there regardless, but now maybe they lose all of the casual fans.

They lost plenty of casuals last year with that boring team, never sold out games, etc. They needed a name like Correa to get the interest going again but it's not happening.

 

[Robotech]

They lost plenty of casuals last year with that boring team, never sold out games, etc. They needed a name like Correa to get the interest going again but it's not happening.

My wife's boss has season tickets behind home plate, but I'm sure it's a totally corporate/business related thing. The guy grew up in the Northeast and is probably really a Red Sox fan who is pretending to now be a Giants fan for business reasons. LOL. You're right that the place was getting filled up by non-fans.

 

[Mays-Fan]

But the Giants played the game by creating the image/expectation that this was a done deal. Right up until about 30 mins before the official presser to announce the actual signing.

That is just really bad PR. Almost to the point of incompetence.

Fully agreed. The FO handled the bad news poorly. The truth is always the way to go, and the sooner the better.

But for this part, I cut them some slack. This is a once in a generation nightmare, not of their own doing, that came out of nowhere, and had to be resolved in the media virtually overnight. It was going to be awkward, embarrassing, disappointing bad news no matter how it was handled. No one could have been ready for it.

 

[msgkings322]

My wife's boss has season tickets behind home plate, but I'm sure it's a totally corporate/business related thing. The guy grew up in the Northeast and is probably really a Red Sox fan who is pretending to now be a Giants fan for business reasons. LOL. You're right that the place was getting filled up by non-fans.

They aren't non-fans that sell out the park, some of the corporate tickets are but the reason they went from selling out every game to where they are now is they stopped winning and no longer have players compelling enough to watch.

 

[msgkings322]

For what it's worth I forgot the only other good player we have, Doval. We have 2 legit very good players and that's it, and neither plays every day.

If we did a teardown (we won't) you could get a lot for him and Webb for the future window. Or we could plan to pay those guys a ton in a couple years.

 

[LHG]

At the end of the day (decade?), it is probably best we lost out on CC. At least in the bubble of on-field play. But this just looks BAD. Constantly being the focus team who lost out on a player creates an image for an organization.

We were the #2 team for Stanton.
We were the #2 team for Ohtani.
We were the #2 team for Harper.
We were the #2 team for Judge.
We were the #2 team for Correa.
We were the #2 team for Suzuki.

And the meantime, we were used By Rodon to build his image to go to a real team.
And the meantime, we were used By Gausman to build his image to go to a real team.

The Giants now have the rep as a transition team that doesn’t want to field a winner (or worse, doesn’t know how). And as a die-hard fan, I can’t argue against that take.

Another reason to really focus on building the farm. Its decent but not where it needs to be.

 

[LHG]

For what it's worth I forgot the only other good player we have, Doval. We have 2 legit very good players and that's it, and neither plays every day.

If we did a teardown (we won't) you could get a lot for him and Webb for the future window. Or we could plan to pay those guys a ton in a couple years.

Theoretically, money shouldn't be an issue. The Giants aren't like the Pirates or A's (hopefully) in that they cry poverty every time one of their homegrown players is ready to get paid. Ideally, the Giants build around Webb and Doval and pay them when its time to do so.

Unless the 2023 Giants really surprise us and are true contenders, I really hope FZ has the green light to be sellers at the trade deadline and he does it with the same vigor that he plays the waiver wire.

 

[Robotech]

Another reason to really focus on building the farm. Its decent but not where it needs to be.

Yup, and if we do it that way, it's sustainable and it won't leave as much of a carbon footprint!

 

[calsnowskier]

Fully agreed. The FO handled the bad news poorly. The truth is always the way to go, and the sooner the better.

But for this part, I cut them some slack. This is a once in a generation nightmare, not of their own doing, that came out of nowhere, and had to be resolved in the media virtually overnight. It was going to be awkward, embarrassing, disappointing bad news no matter how it was handled. No one could have been ready for it.

But that story has been told about this org over and over and over.

I am done saying “well, at least we tried. At least we were in the conversation.”


This org has an epic case of constipation. They eventually need to shit or get off the pot.

 

[stanford the manford]

My wife's boss has season tickets behind home plate, but I'm sure it's a totally corporate/business related thing. The guy grew up in the Northeast and is probably really a Red Sox fan who is pretending to now be a Giants fan for business reasons. LOL. You're right that the place was getting filled up by non-fans.

Former season tix holder here, our group decided not to renew during the initial Covid season

I only went to games last year when we snagged $8 upper level seats. Nice to sit at Oracle on a sunny afternoon, watch the bay, and have a beer with friends. It's great to see a Giants win, but keeping up with the revolving door of mediocre players isn't worth my time. I'll continue to 'follow', won't get too invested until we start seeing some promising new talent that at least have the promise of becoming elite major leaguers..

Given the current roster I can't see bringing short term free agents or extending contracts of those on the downslope - neither will put butts in seats or get us into contention.

 

[calsnowskier]

Former season tix holder here, our group decided not to renew during the initial Covid season

I only went to games last year when we snagged $8 upper level seats. Nice to sit at Oracle on a sunny afternoon, watch the bay, and have a beer with friends. It's great to see a Giants win, but keeping up with the revolving door of mediocre players isn't worth my time. I'll continue to 'follow', won't get too invested until we start seeing some promising new talent that at least have the promise of becoming elite major leaguers..

Given the current roster I can't see bringing short term free agents or extending contracts of those on the downslope - neither will put butts in seats or get us into contention.

I don’t want to be an A’s fan. Never wanted to be an A’s fan.

The Giants right now are a bad imitation of the A’s.

No thank you.

 

[Mays-Fan]

But that story has been told about this org over and over and over.

I am done saying “well, at least we tried. At least we were in the conversation.”


This org has an epic case of constipation. They eventually need to shit or get off the pot.

I know you are frustrated, but you seem to be conflating two related but separate issues.

One is our consistent and repeated status as also-rans in the big-name free agent sweepstakes. I get that and agree.

This is different. We had Correa pending the physical. We saw something we didn't like and backed out. If that something was legit, good on the FO. Yes, we finished second again, but not because we came up short on the money.

Also, the story is not yet complete (though it almost certainly is for us):

Scott Boras Comments On Carlos Correa Situation

The past week has seen an incredible free agent plot twist that's unprecedented in baseball history. Reports emerged last week …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

The relevant paragraph for this discussion:

"It’s worth reiterating that, with the Giants not providing any details, we only really have one side of the story. As Correa’s agent, Boras is surely motivated to wipe away the concern of the Giants as unreasonable or a non-issue. Correa’s new deal with the Mets is also pending a physical and won’t be official until that is complete. However, if the Mets end up having the same concerns as the Giants, it might be difficult for them to back out in a similar fashion. Andy Martino of SNY reports that the Mets could face a grievance if they back out of the deal since owner Steve Cohen has already discussed the deal on the record."​

​

Give our FO some credit for at least waiting for the medical exam before fully committing in the media. OTOH, the Mets and their owner, Steve Cohen, appear to have shot their mouths off, and may have an issue if they have the same reservations about Correa's condition.

 

[stanford the manford]

I don’t want to be an A’s fan. Never wanted to be an A’s fan.

The Giants right now are a bad imitation of the A’s.

No thank you.

At least (maybe a few years ago) the A's developed or acquired on the cheap good players. Of course once they had market value they jettisoned them. Giants aren't even doing that

I'm 1 1/2 blks from Oracle and my game buddies are considering taking Bart over to Oakland for a few games next year. Won't become an A's fan, but maybe the baseball is more interesting - beer's gotta be cheaper over there

 

[Mays-Fan]

I know you are frustrated, but you seem to be conflating two related but separate issues.

One is our consistent and repeated status as also-rans in the big-name free agent sweepstakes. I get that and agree.

This is different. We had Correa pending the physical. We saw something we didn't like and backed out. If that something was legit, good on the FO. Yes, we finished second again, but not because we came up short on the money.

Also, the story is not yet complete (though it almost certainly is for us):

Scott Boras Comments On Carlos Correa Situation

The past week has seen an incredible free agent plot twist that's unprecedented in baseball history. Reports emerged last week …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

The relevant paragraph for this discussion:

"It’s worth reiterating that, with the Giants not providing any details, we only really have one side of the story. As Correa’s agent, Boras is surely motivated to wipe away the concern of the Giants as unreasonable or a non-issue. Correa’s new deal with the Mets is also pending a physical and won’t be official until that is complete. However, if the Mets end up having the same concerns as the Giants, it might be difficult for them to back out in a similar fashion. Andy Martino of SNY reports that the Mets could face a grievance if they back out of the deal since owner Steve Cohen has already discussed the deal on the record."​

​

Give our FO some credit for at least waiting for the medical exam before fully committing in the media. OTOH, the Mets and their owner, Steve Cohen, appear to have shot their mouths off, and may have an issue if they have the same reservations about Correa's condition.

Worth noting also is that the Giants CANNOT disclose their concerns because of confidentiality (HIPAA). So we will likely never know exactly why we backed out.

 

[calsnowskier]

Worth noting also is that the Giants CANNOT disclose their concerns because of confidentiality (HIPAA). So we will likely never know exactly why we backed out.

It will leak, probably. Especially if the Giants continue to get skewered for this. They will have to leak it (from anonymous sources, of course, and they will deny having anything to do with the leak) to save face.


Of course I am frustrated, emotionally. I believe walking away from this deal was almost certainly the right thing to do. But the optics are HORRIBLE, and that is my primary point.

 

[filosofy29]

At least (maybe a few years ago) the A's developed or acquired on the cheap good players. Of course once they had market value they jettisoned them. Giants aren't even doing that

I'm 1 1/2 blks from Oracle and my game buddies are considering taking Bart over to Oakland for a few games next year. Won't become an A's fan, but maybe the baseball is more interesting - beer's gotta be cheaper over there

Don’t do something you can’t take back, lol, the beers at home are cheapest!

 

[Mays-Fan]

I believe walking away from this deal was almost certainly the right thing to do. But the optics are HORRIBLE

Getting the go/no go decision was by far the main thing. How they handled the PR is, in the grand scheme, a relatively minor point.

But, yeah, we're all very bummed about the whole thing.

 

[filosofy29]

Getting the go/no go decision was by far the main thing. How they handled the PR is, in the grand scheme, a relatively minor point.

But, yeah, we're all very bummed about the whole thing.

PR can be a minor thing if players know this is how contracts work and aren’t bothered by it. If word gets out from Correa or BoreAss that it was essentially cold feet and they waited a long time narrowing his window for other eligible teams, it is not a minor point at all and will be a sticking point for big time FA’s.

To the giants fans? Probably a moot point once they start winning again.