2022 Draft discussion thread

[listopencil]

strategically
you’re George Paton starting Lock but he’s just a guy in a new system growing pains all over. tough to evaluate a young QB

now you are in year 3 of a 6 year deal with a new college QB?

you hope in year 4 the QB develops into something ?

that year would make or break Patons career

fail in year 4 there’s no time to turn it around

IMO 5 years in looking for a QB is not a good career choice

my solution

trade for the vet this year in year two and ride him for 3 years and build the offensive identity which will also allow you to bring along a young QB even Lock in a stable system

what’s interesting is one way is probably the correct way and sets broncos up long term the other gets Paton fired after year 4 or 5.

like city slickers find the one thing
who knows what that is

that’s will fall on Paton

elway failed with all this QB choices post PFM

The problem is that if you bring in a vet this year then it's pretty much curtains for Lock unless he settles for a back up role going into his second contract, which is where these guys make their money. I don't think he's going to go for that.

 

[Mingo]

strategically
you’re George Paton starting Lock but he’s just a guy in a new system growing pains all over. tough to evaluate a young QB

now you are in year 3 of a 6 year deal with a new college QB?

you hope in year 4 the QB develops into something ?

that year would make or break Patons career

fail in year 4 there’s no time to turn it around

IMO 5 years in looking for a QB is not a good career choice

my solution

trade for the vet this year in year two and ride him for 3 years and build the offensive identity which will also allow you to bring along a young QB even Lock in a stable system

what’s interesting is one way is probably the correct way and sets broncos up long term the other gets Paton fired after year 4 or 5.

like city slickers find the one thing
who knows what that is

that’s will fall on Paton

elway failed with all this QB choices post PFM

I can definitely see those scenarios working out the way you speculate.

But that is assuming you can get that top QB this year. No one knows if Rogers, Wilson or others are available. They next tier of available FAs would be Cousins and Garoppolo - neither of them will quite make it IMO.

For Paton - you also have to factor new ownership. Does he offer new ownership flexibility in 23, or use it up in 22? I'd say he would be wiser to give the new ownership flexibility to put together their preferred brand.

 

[CEH]

I can definitely see those scenarios working out the way you speculate.

But that is assuming you can get that top QB this year. No one knows if Rogers, Wilson or others are available. They next tier of available FAs would be Cousins and Garoppolo - neither of them will quite make it IMO.

For Paton - you also have to factor new ownership. Does he offer new ownership flexibility in 23, or use it up in 22? I'd say he would be wiser to give the new ownership flexibility to put together their preferred brand.

define what is a preferred brand?

 

[Mingo]

define what is a preferred brand?

I was referring to whatever marketing/branding concept the new ownership might want to associate themselves as an investment -- not a specific brand.

 

[SpringStein]

define what is a preferred brand?

Winning is a brand usually favored by billionaires.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Winning is a brand usually favored by billionaires.

Unless your name is Dan Snyder, Ford, Woody Johnson, Ziggy Wilf, Stephen Ross...

 

[SpiritOf77]

Yes. I acknowledge that data on Lock is limited. But several things stand out to me.

1) You start with Cousins, nail mid thought and focus on Teddy B and Lock comparison

2) I am less of a fan of the Tebow argument. The argument that as long as the team record with player is good, the player is good. This assumes team is winning because of, and not, in spite of.

3) you criticize me for trying to use objective data but lean hard on the subjective eye test. The issue I see here is that those arguing for Lock seem to be putting on blinders, ignoring the bad, or are looking at potential. And we all know Cousins and Teddy B are at their ceilings.

4) Covid season - I acknowledge there are differences but Burrows entered league in Covid season and Allen took massive step forward that year.

5) Lock - I see people say he has grown and shown flashes but to me his worst mistakes he still makes. Trusts his arm too much. Wants Big plays over keeping a drive alive. He likes the tripled covered WR option rather than the free check down, especially when all you need is 3 yds for a first.

6) I don’t advocate for Teddy B or Cousins. And I am generally in favor of giving Lock the 2022 season. What is another year of shitty QB play after 6 straight? I don’t care much for the current rookie class. I don’t like the idea of trading the farm for Rodgers. Unlike many Lock fans, my expectations are low. Rarely does a QB not figure it the first 3 years and suddenly looks competent in year 4.

There is a lot to digest here .. I understand the subject is QBs, but this is about much more than just expecting one player to succeed ( by what standard, that;s another discussion )

As far as Tebow .. This is a perfect example where looking at stat sheet is pointless .. Taking the entire situation into account - Josh McDaniels having left the entire organization in shambles - an afterthought, even laughing stock .. The once proud Denver Broncos were an embarrassment ...

Prior to Tebow being inserted as the starter that Sunday in Miami vs the Dolphins, the Broncos were 7-24 in their previous 31 games .... This is with the same defense that Tebow inherited .... The team was dead, and Tebow, single handedly, and miraculously , injected a spark that lit the fuse ....

When I see people mention that the defense or the running game was the catalyst for the Broncos sudden turn and playoff run, I shake my head -- where was the supposedly great defense when the team was losing 24 out of 31 games ?? ...

Tim Tebow was lightening in a bottle, and even I admit as his biggest fan that it probably had run its course following the loss to the Pats ... Unless the Broncos built a truly dominating defense for the following season, the wins would have been far and few between ...

As far as Josh Allen .. Allen was handed two excellent vets - Diggs and Beasley - while Lock was given, with no training camp, with a lousy new OC in Shurmur, with no preseason games - two rookies in Hamler and Jeudy who, themselves, did not have a training camp or any reps with Lock ...

Again, like the Tebow run, the Covid season was an anomaly - unprecedented and tough to compare to other situations or seasons ...

I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying BROK ... Perhaps the thing we have differences on is Cousins .. and aside from the undeniable facts of where the teams Cousins has QB'd have advanced ( or, not advanced ) I rely a lot on the gut feeling, personal observation and things that cannot be measured .. Case Keenum took the Vikings further than Cousins has

Cousins, to me, just does not command attention while on the field, he doesn't have the winning character or personality. and subjectively, he is just not a winner in my book ....

And while Lock hasn't won much either, his resume is much much smaller, but to me, his chutzpah and command on the field, plus his full bag of physical traits, all that tells me he could be a Top 10 QB ...

 

[PumpFake]

There is a lot to digest here .. I understand the subject is QBs, but this is about much more than just expecting one player to succeed ( by what standard, that;s another discussion )

As far as Tebow .. This is a perfect example where looking at stat sheet is pointless .. Taking the entire situation into account - Josh McDaniels having left the entire organization in shambles - an afterthought, even laughing stock .. The once proud Denver Broncos were an embarrassment ...

Prior to Tebow being inserted as the starter that Sunday in Miami vs the Dolphins, the Broncos were 7-24 in their previous 31 games .... This is with the same defense that Tebow inherited .... The team was dead, and Tebow, single handedly, and miraculously , injected a spark that lit the fuse ....

When I see people mention that the defense or the running game was the catalyst for the Broncos sudden turn and playoff run, I shake my head -- where was the supposedly great defense when the team was losing 24 out of 31 games ?? ...

Tim Tebow was lightening in a bottle, and even I admit as his biggest fan that it probably had run its course following the loss to the Pats ... Unless the Broncos built a truly dominating defense for the following season, the wins would have been far and few between ...

As far as Josh Allen .. Allen was handed two excellent vets - Diggs and Beasley - while Lock was given, with no training camp, with a lousy new OC in Shurmur, with no preseason games - two rookies in Hamler and Jeudy who, themselves, did not have a training camp or any reps with Lock ...

Again, like the Tebow run, the Covid season was an anomaly - unprecedented and tough to compare to other situations or seasons ...

I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying BROK ... Perhaps the thing we have differences on is Cousins .. and aside from the undeniable facts of where the teams Cousins has QB'd have advanced ( or, not advanced ) I rely a lot on the gut feeling, personal observation and things that cannot be measured .. Case Keenum took the Vikings further than Cousins has

Cousins, to me, just does not command attention while on the field, he doesn't have the winning character or personality. and subjectively, he is just not a winner in my book ....

And while Lock hasn't won much either, his resume is much much smaller, but to me, his chutzpah and command on the field, plus his full bag of physical traits, all that tells me he could be a Top 10 QB ...

What do you think of the premise in this article?

Five Nathaniel Hackett Quotes that Hint at Drew Lock Being Denver Broncos' Upgrade at QB in 2022 - Sports Illustrated Mile High Huddle: Denver Broncos News, Analysis and More

The Broncos need an upgrade at quarterback and it's possible that with Nathaniel Hackett in the fold, the team already has one.

www.si.com

 

[Orange Crush77]

What do you think of the premise in this article?

Five Nathaniel Hackett Quotes that Hint at Drew Lock Being Denver Broncos' Upgrade at QB in 2022 - Sports Illustrated Mile High Huddle: Denver Broncos News, Analysis and More

The Broncos need an upgrade at quarterback and it's possible that with Nathaniel Hackett in the fold, the team already has one.

www.si.com

Mingo called it

 

[fightinredantz]

What do you think of the premise in this article?

Five Nathaniel Hackett Quotes that Hint at Drew Lock Being Denver Broncos' Upgrade at QB in 2022 - Sports Illustrated Mile High Huddle: Denver Broncos News, Analysis and More

The Broncos need an upgrade at quarterback and it's possible that with Nathaniel Hackett in the fold, the team already has one.

www.si.com

I agree with the article.

Trading for Rodgers and Wilson are chances that you have to take depending on the cost. One thing to keep in mind is it is not only the cost of the picks and players, but also the inability to draft replacements of those guys, or guys that leave in free agency. If the cost is three 1sts, three 2nds, a 3rd, Jeudy, and Chubb, plus a new 40-45 million per year salary, would be too much in my opinion. In my opinion the cost to acquire other QBs not named Rodgers or Wilson is too high when added to cap hit and my impression of the amount of improvement they represent over Lock.

If there is a QB that George and staff love in the draft, go get him, if not be patient as drafting the wrong QB is as problematic, maybe more then not drafting a guy. See the Paxton Lynch experience.

 

[Mingo]

I agree with the article.

Trading for Rodgers and Wilson are chances that you have to take depending on the cost. One thing to keep in mind is it is not only the cost of the picks and players, but also the inability to draft replacements of those guys, or guys that leave in free agency. If the cost is three 1sts, three 2nds, a 3rd, Jeudy, and Chubb, plus a new 40-45 million per year salary, would be too much in my opinion. In my opinion the cost to acquire other QBs not named Rodgers or Wilson is too high when added to cap hit and my impression of the amount of improvement they represent over Lock.

If there is a QB that George and staff love in the draft, go get him, if not be patient as drafting the wrong QB is as problematic, maybe more then not drafting a guy. See the Paxton Lynch experience.

I agree - if you want to draft a QB later in this draft - take one you can develop who has the ceiling of a starter, but only needs to be good enough to be the backup.

 

[CEH]

I agree with the article.

Trading for Rodgers and Wilson are chances that you have to take depending on the cost. One thing to keep in mind is it is not only the cost of the picks and players, but also the inability to draft replacements of those guys, or guys that leave in free agency. If the cost is three 1sts, three 2nds, a 3rd, Jeudy, and Chubb, plus a new 40-45 million per year salary, would be too much in my opinion. In my opinion the cost to acquire other QBs not named Rodgers or Wilson is too high when added to cap hit and my impression of the amount of improvement they represent over Lock.

If there is a QB that George and staff love in the draft, go get him, if not be patient as drafting the wrong QB is as problematic, maybe more then not drafting a guy. See the Paxton Lynch experience.

i would guess 2 firsts a 2nd and a young player.

I agree - if you want to draft a QB later in this draft - take one you can develop who has the ceiling of a starter, but only needs to be good enough to be the backup.

Drew Lock?

 

[SpiritOf77]

Winning is a brand usually favored by billionaires.

Unfortunately, because of the enormous television and media contracts and revenue sharing, even the franchises that struggle for wins will turn a profit ... Of course, there can be the drive from ownership to maximize the profits, but winning isn;t really necessary in this day and age for the organization to be lucrative ...

On a sidenote, I'm probably stuck in some other era, but, when "owner" is mentioned, I much prefer one person to represent the organization .. and that one person to really bleed blue and orange ....

You don't get any better than Pat Bowlen standing on the sideline in his fur coat

 

[SpiritOf77]

What do you think of the premise in this article?

Five Nathaniel Hackett Quotes that Hint at Drew Lock Being Denver Broncos' Upgrade at QB in 2022 - Sports Illustrated Mile High Huddle: Denver Broncos News, Analysis and More

The Broncos need an upgrade at quarterback and it's possible that with Nathaniel Hackett in the fold, the team already has one.

www.si.com

Great article .. it touches on a lot of the intangibles, things that are not in a stat sheet ... things guys like Cousins lack

 

[Draft Crazy]

I want the Broncos to draft a player like Wan'Dale Robinson (kentucky) so bad it hurts.....

 

[Clayton]

I want the Broncos to draft a player like Wan'Dale Robinson (kentucky) so bad it hurts.....

Looks more like a Chiefs or Raiders pick if Im being honest

 

[SpringStein]

Looks more like a Chiefs or Raiders pick if Im being honest

You really know how to make DC’s day!

 

[Clayton]

You really know how to make DC’s day!

Well, this is a big offseason for you guys. PFF has the two best positions in the draft as LB and EDGE and if you guys dont sell all of your picks for a QB then maybe you guys go that direction.

Raiders seem like a team that should attack OL in free agency and pick BPA WR in the first rd.

Chiefs have been bad at drafting pass rushers for awhile but that seems like the obvious place to start. Good draft for WRs who fit the Chiefs style, though.

 

[SpringStein]

Well, this is a big offseason for you guys. PFF has the two best positions in the draft as LB and EDGE and if you guys dont sell all of your picks for a QB then maybe you guys go that direction.

Raiders seem like a team that should attack OL in free agency and pick BPA WR in the first rd.

Chiefs have been bad at drafting pass rushers for awhile but that seems like the obvious place to start. Good draft for WRs who fit the Chiefs style, though.

Where does OL - more specifically OT - rank in PFF’s ranking? I think there are three who could easily be top 10. I’m not certain of the depth at OT.

 

[Clayton]

Where does OL - more specifically OT - rank in PFF’s ranking? I think there are three who could easily be top 10. I’m not certain of the depth at OT.

Im just basing it off the podcast I heard but they said that OT was better than normal but generally when you go OT you go in rd1. Interior Oline was worse than normal.