2022 Draft discussion thread

[Broncosr0k]

I really don’t get the hate for Jimmy G and Cousins but the love for Minshew. I don’t see him bringing anything special to the party.

 

[Draft Crazy]

I really don’t get the hate for Jimmy G and Cousins but the love for Minshew. I don’t see him bringing anything special to the party.

110% agree.

Sure, neither of them are elite. I don't want to be locked into huge contracts with either but they are NFL starting QB's who have proven they can win. Sure, like most QB's they need pieces around them to win. I get a kick out of fans who are ok with Drew Lock starting this year but are disgusted with the thought of Pro Bowl QB Kirk Cousins starting here. Yeah, I get it. There is a price difference but it is the QB position and I want to win. Can't win sitting around waiting for something to fall into your lap....

I wouldn't expect the Vikings to likely make Cousins available to be honest. Where they sit in the draft they aren't drafting a can't miss QB and they aren't going to get Rodgers or Wilson so how do you get better at that point? Plus O'Connell seems to really like him the way he talks about him. I can't see the Vikings having an better option in the vet or young QB route this offseason.

 

[Broncosr0k]

I posted the career stats of 3 QBs a few weeks ago. I made it anonymous and adjusted the stats to per game.

Lock and Bridgewater had nearly identical stats. Cousins had noticeably better. If I have time this weekend I might do a few more. It seems some people have attached capability to names rather than actual play.

 

[CEH]

Fair enough.

What path does the Hoop Community want to see the Broncos take at QB?

• Trade multiple picks and players for Aaron Rodgers.
• Trade multiple picks and maybe player(s) for Russell Wilson.
• Trade for Jimmy G.
• Trade for Kirk Cousins.
• Trade for Gardner Minshew.
• Draft a guy and roll with Lock.
• Roll with Lock.

I am not in the trade for Rodgers camp.

I am more ok with Wilson as he is younger.

I am out on Jimmy G. and Cousins.

I would be ok with Gardner Minshew, drafting a guy if there is one that Paton believes in, or just rolling with Lock.

I feel like Lock has had a poor opportunity while he was here. First getting hurt, then the COVID year, and then not really having an opportunity, and then having to try to over come the Shurmur effect. I will say Lock didn’t take full advantage of his starts in in 2020.

I think Lock still has a shot to be an above average starter in the right situation, and if reality meets his potential it could buy time until there is that guy you trade up for. I also get a feeling that Paton and Hackett have a plan, and that is something that has been missing in Denver for a bit.

I completely understand where people are coming from when they say they are ready to move on from Lock, and don’t fault them for that opinion.

this is easy for me

i would trade picks for ARod or Wilson. picks are overrated when it comes to securing a QB. then i would extend Lock unless he personally is done with Denver.
think extending Brock in 2015 not trying in 2016 after Brock played so well late in 2016.

if i’m a first time HC on a 4 year contact give me a stud QB for 3 years vs having a first round pick. problem with not having a QB is your time is spent trying to find develop one in every level of your organization instead of allowing everything to focus on football. that’s worth more than a late round 1st round pick.

i just don’t see the other side that wants to go down the road of trying to find a QB when we have been doing that for the last 5 losing years in a row.

if this years playoffs didn’t show this a a QB driven league i’m not sure what ever will

 

[listopencil]

Fair enough.

What path does the Hoop Community want to see the Broncos take at QB?

• Trade multiple picks and players for Aaron Rodgers.
• Trade multiple picks and maybe player(s) for Russell Wilson.
• Trade for Jimmy G.
• Trade for Kirk Cousins.
• Trade for Gardner Minshew.
• Draft a guy and roll with Lock.
• Roll with Lock.

I am not in the trade for Rodgers camp.

I am more ok with Wilson as he is younger.

I am out on Jimmy G. and Cousins.

I would be ok with Gardner Minshew, drafting a guy if there is one that Paton believes in, or just rolling with Lock.

I feel like Lock has had a poor opportunity while he was here. First getting hurt, then the COVID year, and then not really having an opportunity, and then having to try to over come the Shurmur effect. I will say Lock didn’t take full advantage of his starts in in 2020.

I think Lock still has a shot to be an above average starter in the right situation, and if reality meets his potential it could buy time until there is that guy you trade up for. I also get a feeling that Paton and Hackett have a plan, and that is something that has been missing in Denver for a bit.

I completely understand where people are coming from when they say they are ready to move on from Lock, and don’t fault them for that opinion.

I would be OK with

trade for Russell Wilson
draft Willis/Corral and trade for Jimmy G (or some other QB capable of starting for two to three years)
draft Pickett and play Lock this year

 

[Draft Crazy]

this is easy for me

i would trade picks for ARod or Wilson. picks are overrated when it comes to securing a QB. then i would extend Lock unless he personally is done with Denver.
think extending Brock in 2015 not trying in 2016 after Brock played so well late in 2016.

if i’m a first time HC on a 4 year contact give me a stud QB for 3 years vs having a first round pick. problem with not having a QB is your time is spent trying to find develop one in every level of your organization instead of allowing everything to focus on football. that’s worth more than a late round 1st round pick.

i just don’t see the other side that wants to go down the road of trying to find a QB when we have been doing that for the last 5 losing years in a row.

if this years playoffs didn’t show this a a QB driven league i’m not sure what ever will

While I don't think picks are overrated I do think you have to be willing to use them..... We all know by now good teams operate around good QB's... From there the fish start swimming to you. Sure, you can have a dominate defense and win a Super Bowl... We proved that... But it isn't often. Go get the shark to feed all the fishies.

 

[Orange Crush77]

Malik Willis

 

[Draft Crazy]

Malik Willis

Brue Willis.

 

[SpringStein]

Brue Willis.

Brue? Or Brie? Or Boo?

 

[Mingo]

Brue Willis.

"What you talking about Willis?"

 

[Orange Crush77]

Here we go….

 

[Mingo]

Here we go….

When threads go bad like this, I blame it on the POTM

 

[Orange Crush77]

When threads go bad like this, I blame it on the POTM

@SpiritOf77 had nothing to do with this train wreck

 

[SpiritOf77]

I posted the career stats of 3 QBs a few weeks ago. I made it anonymous and adjusted the stats to per game.

Lock and Bridgewater had nearly identical stats. Cousins had noticeably better. If I have time this weekend I might do a few more. It seems some people have attached capability to names rather than actual play.

You're going to compare the stats of a vet like Cousins who has been the starter with two franchises, carries a 30 million dollar salary, will be 34 years old in his next NFL start, and has failed to generate any excitement or identity -- with Drew Lock,, whose only shot at being the starting QB heading into a season was a season in which there was no training camp, no preseason, with a HC who hated him and the best he was handed were two rookie WRs who were #1 and #3 that year in dropped passes ??

Anyone who watches the games will be able to tell the difference between what Lock brings and what Teddy brings -- they are two totally different QBs, at different points in the careers ... Comparing their stats is pointless ...

Lock has a year left on a bargain contract and generates a spark, has chutzpah and has never been given a fair shot ... 4-1 with Scangarello is enough for me to have some hope that this kid can play in the NFL .. 4-1 as a rookie with a OC that was a rookie

 

[SpiritOf77]

@SpiritOf77 had nothing to do with this train wreck

I just stepped into a nuthouse ... ok, hang on.. or is "I just stepped out of a nuthouse" more accurate ??

 

[Broncosr0k]

You're going to compare the stats of a vet like Cousins who has been the starter with two franchises, carries a 30 million dollar salary, will be 34 years old in his next NFL start, and has failed to generate any excitement or identity -- with Drew Lock,, whose only shot at being the starting QB heading into a season was a season in which there was no training camp, no preseason, with a HC who hated him and the best he was handed were two rookie WRs who were #1 and #3 that year in dropped passes ??

Anyone who watches the games will be able to tell the difference between what Lock brings and what Teddy brings -- they are two totally different QBs, at different points in the careers ... Comparing their stats is pointless ...

Lock has a year left on a bargain contract and generates a spark, has chutzpah and has never been given a fair shot ... 4-1 with Scangarello is enough for me to have some hope that this kid can play in the NFL .. 4-1 as a rookie with a OC that was a rookie

Yes. I acknowledge that data on Lock is limited. But several things stand out to me.

1) You start with Cousins, nail mid thought and focus on Teddy B and Lock comparison

2) I am less of a fan of the Tebow argument. The argument that as long as the team record with player is good, the player is good. This assumes team is winning because of, and not, in spite of.

3) you criticize me for trying to use objective data but lean hard on the subjective eye test. The issue I see here is that those arguing for Lock seem to be putting on blinders, ignoring the bad, or are looking at potential. And we all know Cousins and Teddy B are at their ceilings.

4) Covid season - I acknowledge there are differences but Burrows entered league in Covid season and Allen took massive step forward that year.

5) Lock - I see people say he has grown and shown flashes but to me his worst mistakes he still makes. Trusts his arm too much. Wants Big plays over keeping a drive alive. He likes the tripled covered WR option rather than the free check down, especially when all you need is 3 yds for a first.

6) I don’t advocate for Teddy B or Cousins. And I am generally in favor of giving Lock the 2022 season. What is another year of shitty QB play after 6 straight? I don’t care much for the current rookie class. I don’t like the idea of trading the farm for Rodgers. Unlike many Lock fans, my expectations are low. Rarely does a QB not figure it the first 3 years and suddenly looks competent in year 4.

 

[Mingo]

Strategically, the Bronco's best option is to go with Lock this season as a starter. Challenge the new coaches to build an offense that takes advantage of his talents. We have observed that Lock hasn't shown any talent for making decisions deeper into plays. Give him an offense with quick triggers and make him play instinctively and you will have success. The West Coast offense allows for this very kind of play. John Elway himself - became a much better QB statistically in the West Coast offense.

Next year - better college QBs available and some potentially great FA QB available - means next year is the better time to look for a long-time fix at QB. Build the team through the draft this year - make it young and mean and lean any ready to win.

I don't think the Broncos would have hired such a young staff if they thought they could magically be Super Bowl contenders this year by lucking out with a top QB. The Broncos seem to have a longer view.

 

[listopencil]

Strategically, the Bronco's best option is to go with Lock this season as a starter. Challenge the new coaches to build an offense that takes advantage of his talents. We have observed that Lock hasn't shown any talent for making decisions deeper into plays. Give him an offense with quick triggers and make him play instinctively and you will have success. The West Coast offense allows for this very kind of play. John Elway himself - became a much better QB statistically in the West Coast offense.

Next year - better college QBs available and some potentially great FA QB available - means next year is the better time to look for a long-time fix at QB. Build the team through the draft this year - make it young and mean and lean any ready to win.

I don't think the Broncos would have hired such a young staff if they thought they could magically be Super Bowl contenders this year by lucking out with a top QB. The Broncos seem to have a longer view.

That is certainly one option. Maybe that's what Hackett told Paton. That he believed he could work with Lock and build an O around him that would be effective. As I recall he did something like that with Bortles.

 

[Broncosr0k]

I don't think the Broncos would have hired such a young staff if they thought they could magically be Super Bowl contenders this year by lucking out with a top QB. The Broncos seem to have a longer view.

This plays into my preference. I don’t want to compete for 2 years and then go back to what he have had in the post-Manning era. I want to be competitive for the next decade. Herbert and Mahomes are both young. They will be here long after someone like Rodgers has retired. I want to compete those years too.

 

[CEH]

Strategically, the Bronco's best option is to go with Lock this season as a starter. Challenge the new coaches to build an offense that takes advantage of his talents. We have observed that Lock hasn't shown any talent for making decisions deeper into plays. Give him an offense with quick triggers and make him play instinctively and you will have success. The West Coast offense allows for this very kind of play. John Elway himself - became a much better QB statistically in the West Coast offense.

Next year - better college QBs available and some potentially great FA QB available - means next year is the better time to look for a long-time fix at QB. Build the team through the draft this year - make it young and mean and lean any ready to win.

I don't think the Broncos would have hired such a young staff if they thought they could magically be Super Bowl contenders this year by lucking out with a top QB. The Broncos seem to have a longer view.

strategically
you’re George Paton starting Lock but he’s just a guy in a new system growing pains all over. tough to evaluate a young QB

now you are in year 3 of a 6 year deal with a new college QB?

you hope in year 4 the QB develops into something ?

that year would make or break Patons career

fail in year 4 there’s no time to turn it around

IMO 5 years in looking for a QB is not a good career choice

my solution

trade for the vet this year in year two and ride him for 3 years and build the offensive identity which will also allow you to bring along a young QB even Lock in a stable system

what’s interesting is one way is probably the correct way and sets broncos up long term the other gets Paton fired after year 4 or 5.

like city slickers find the one thing
who knows what that is

that’s will fall on Paton

elway failed with all this QB choices post PFM