2020 Draft & FA

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

FYI...I don't think I'm going to surprise anybody as he was just a 6th round pick, but I'm hearing Isiah Buggs is not the answer, probably will never start or be an impact player. Alualu will probably make this team as the #1 DE backup again.

Figured as much. The odds for a 6th Rd draft pick to make a sizable impact within his first 2-3 seasons is probably extremely slim league-wide.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Figured as much. The odds for a 6th Rd draft pick to make a sizable impact within his first 2-3 seasons is probably extremely slim league-wide.

When I put the word into coach Mitch about Buggs...as told to me, he kinda chuckled at first and said...don't expect much.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

When I put the word into coach Mitch about Buggs...as told to me, he kinda chuckled at first and said...don't expect much.

So damn cool that you have that connection! I wonder how active the Steelers are gonna be with looking at D-lineman in FA & the draft. Obviously hinges on what happens with Hargrave, but Alualu is old and Tuitt hasn't been through a full season since his rookie year. They are on shaky ground with the D-line.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

So damn cool that you have that connection! I wonder how active the Steelers are gonna be with looking at D-lineman in FA & the draft. Obviously hinges on what happens with Hargrave, but Alualu is old and Tuitt hasn't been through a full season since his rookie year. They are on shaky ground with the D-line.

It is...I've met him a few times myself, nice guy...old school strait to the point type guy...talked retirement because his health but they moved him up to asst HC so he said he's going to hang around until they send him out to pasture...lol

DL...I think the game plan will be to get a 2 down NT in the draft, and see how he performs compared to McCullers and take their chances with one or both of them. Buggs is going to get some snaps in relief, hopefully he can hold down that job. But, if either starting DE can't go for extended time...depth is going to be a problem.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

It is...I've met him a few times myself, nice guy...old school strait to the point type guy...talked retirement because his health but they moved him up to asst HC so he said he's going to hang around until they send him out to pasture...lol

DL...I think the game plan will be to get a 2 down NT in the draft, and see how he performs compared to McCullers and take their chances with one or both of them. Buggs is going to get some snaps in relief, hopefully he can hold down that job. But, if either starting DE can't go for extended time...depth is going to be a problem.

Good for him. Glad they are able to keep him around. He's always had a great eye for talent.

DL depth... I think I saw that Walton is considered a RFA? Will the Steelers tender him? IMO that's better depth than what Buggs brings at this point in his career. Heyward/Tuitt/Alualu/McCullers/Walton/Buggs

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Good for him. Glad they are able to keep him around. He's always had a great eye for talent.

DL depth... I think I saw that Walton is considered a RFA? Will the Steelers tender him? IMO that's better depth than what Buggs brings at this point in his career. Heyward/Tuitt/Alualu/McCullers/Walton/Buggs

Walton...the fact he's still getting callbacks from the Steelers...that should be a tipping point right there of what they think of Buggs.

With the lack of depth at DE, I think his run defense at OLB is another reason we can expect Dupree to be tagged if no long term deal can be struck. There seems to be almost zero thought in the building that Dupree will play anywhere else but PIT next yr....they will make the cuts as we've been assuming to make that happen.

2019-20 NFL Important Dates | NFL Football Operations

Keys dates...Note March 10 thru 18...lot of deadline activity including announcing tagged players (Mar 10).

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Walton...the fact he's still getting callbacks from the Steelers...that should be a tipping point right there of what they think of Buggs.

With the lack of depth at DE, I think his run defense at OLB is another reason we can expect Dupree to be tagged if no long term deal can be struck. There seems to be almost zero thought in the building that Dupree will play anywhere else but PIT next yr....they will make the cuts as we've been assuming to make that happen.

2019-20 NFL Important Dates | NFL Football Operations

Keys dates...Note March 10 thru 18...lot of deadline activity including announcing tagged players (Mar 10).

All of the pgh pundits close to the team are sayin the same things about Dupree. Seems like nobody has any inclination to let him walk. Not against it personally, just don't like the idea of putting a $16m cap value on the books for him.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Interesting theory here... And personally I wouldn't mind it at all. Seems like a good fit. But honestly I'm most allured to anything that gets Randy closer to the door.

Might the Steelers be contemplating a Jalen Hurts-Matt Canada offense in the post-Ben Roethlisberger era?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

All of the pgh pundits close to the team are sayin the same things about Dupree. Seems like nobody has any inclination to let him walk. Not against it personally, just don't like the idea of putting a $16m cap value on the books for him.

I think everyone in PIT and the FO is looking at this season as playoff or bust, worry about '21 later in the year. If Ben looks good all season...by Dec, they will probably have a good idea if he's going to be playing '21.

$16m...I'm not all that enamored which that prospect either, but I feel better about that than say $13 or 14 mil per for a 4 yrs. In that sense what could they do with $16 mil this yr to make them a stronger contender?

They won't get a cheaper edge rusher...we know that. I'm more oaky than not with the tag on Dupree.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I think everyone in PIT and the FO is looking at this season as playoff or bust, worry about '21 later in the year. If Ben looks good all season...by Dec, they will probably have a good idea if he's going to be playing '21.

$16m...I'm not all that enamored which that prospect either, but I feel better about that than say $13 or 14 mil per for a 4 yrs. In that sense what could they do with $16 mil this yr to make them a stronger contender?

They won't get a cheaper edge rusher...we know that. I'm more oaky than not with the tag on Dupree.

Last I looked the FA pool at EDGE was pretty deep, no? What makes you think they couldn't find someone at a lesser cap hit that gives them 80-90% of what Dupree brought last year? Which is more or less what they got from Dupree for 4+ years prior to 2019.

But then again, downgrading ROLB with nothing for depth but hopes & dreams seems like a very bad idea while in "win now" mode. Chick should be chopped for cap savings, and Ola & Skip may take some time to mold into that depth role. Granted, neither could be any worse than Chick was.

Like I said, neither for or against the tag on Dupree really. Fairly neutral on it but need to see more on how the FA market plays out. If the demand is high then Dupree's tag will look more & more worth it.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Interesting theory here... And personally I wouldn't mind it at all. Seems like a good fit. But honestly I'm most allured to anything that gets Randy closer to the door.

Might the Steelers be contemplating a Jalen Hurts-Matt Canada offense in the post-Ben Roethlisberger era?

He's probably gonna be there at 49.

While I think Fichtner's tenure is definitely tied to Ben's tenure now...If they go on to do great things in '20, maybe Randy will be able to stand on his own merits. Until then I'm open to some other looks as well.

Hurts...I'm not a huge Hurts fan, (mid range accuracy needs to get way better). I don't see Colbert making this pick. The FO is still very much on board with Rudolph at the moment.

The Utah kid, Jordan Love to me has more interest if they were going to go that route...I'm not confident Hurts will ever be accurate enough.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Last I looked the FA pool at EDGE was pretty deep, no? What makes you think they couldn't find someone at a lesser cap hit that gives them 80-90% of what Dupree brought last year? Which is more or less what they got from Dupree for 4+ years prior to 2019.

But then again, downgrading ROLB with nothing for depth but hopes & dreams seems like a very bad idea while in "win now" mode. Chick should be chopped for cap savings, and Ola & Skip may take some time to mold into that depth role. Granted, neither could be any worse than Chick was.

Like I said, neither for or against the tag on Dupree really. Fairly neutral on it but need to see more on how the FA market plays out. If the demand is high then Dupree's tag will look more & more worth it.

2020 NFL Free Agents Tracker

2020 NFL Free Agents Tracker

Looking at those list again...there are better players than Bud...Clowney no question...I think he's going to cost more than $16 mil per as well.

Shaq Barrett is a better pass rusher than Bud, I would question his run stopping, but TB is going to tag or sign him. I haven't looked at every player, but age and production kinda filters the list of FAs down rather quickly....would you want Dante Fowler over Dupree?

I've had one guy tell me the Steelers should scrap Dupree, and invest in a vet like a Jamie Collins for half that tag price...across from TJ he will give you 8-10 sacks....dump McDonald and go after the Chargers TE, Hunter Henry.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

He's probably gonna be there at 49.

While I think Fichtner's tenure is definitely tied to Ben's tenure now...If they go on to do great things in '20, maybe Randy will be able to stand on his own merits. Until then I'm open to some other looks as well.

Hurts...I'm not a huge Hurts fan, (mid range accuracy needs to get way better). I don't see Colbert making this pick. The FO is still very much on board with Rudolph at the moment.

The Utah kid, Jordan Love to me has more interest if they were going to go that route...I'm not confident Hurts will ever be accurate enough.

To me, Hurts is sort of like a more athletic version of Jacoby Brissett. He's a fringe franchise caliber prospect that can certainly allow an offense to function at a high level, but will he ever be able to carry a team if necessary? Who knows.

FWIW, I view Jordan Love as a more inconsistent version of Hurts, but he does appear to have a higher ceiling if all the planets align correctly.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

2020 NFL Free Agents Tracker

2020 NFL Free Agents Tracker

Looking at those list again...there are better players than Bud...Clowney no question...I think he's going to cost more than $16 mil per as well.

Shaq Barrett is a better pass rusher than Bud, I would question his run stopping, but TB is going to tag or sign him. I haven't looked at every player, but age and production kinda filters the list of FAs down rather quickly....would you want Dante Fowler over Dupree?

I've had one guy tell me the Steelers should scrap Dupree, and invest in a vet like a Jamie Collins for half that tag price...across from TJ he will give you 8-10 sacks....dump McDonald and go after the Chargers TE, Hunter Henry.

I posted a lengthy FA list in this thread somewhere with my thoughts on each player available. From what I recall it had a lot of decent options. Not a fan of Fowler for the production he gives. But maybe in a different scheme theres hope?

Dumping McDonald for Henry is a scary thought. If we already view Vance as injury prone, then we'd be forced to view Henry as DOA.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I posted a lengthy FA list in this thread somewhere with my thoughts on each player available. From what I recall it had a lot of decent options. Not a fan of Fowler for the production he gives. But maybe in a different scheme theres hope?

Dumping McDonald for Henry is a scary thought. If we already view Vance as injury prone, then we'd be forced to view Henry as DOA.

Henry...that's what I told him...yeah on paper he looks good, but the reality is he's no more reliable than McDonald.

I'll check out your list after lunch. On the surface though, there can't be too many great options for $16 mil. or less.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

For future FA discussions in here... Here's a list of top FAs (unranked) for the positions that we have deemed as a need in the upcoming offseason...

OLB
Jadeveon Clowney... Not going anywhere given the trade haul Seattle gave up. But for now, he's a pending UFA.
Shaq Barrett... What a year this guy is having. Young & pricey.
Bud Dupree... For all the grief we give him, he's still having a decent year. I don't want the Steelers to overpay.
Dante Fowler Jr... To me he's a Bud Dupree type player. Output doesn't necessarily match the athleticism.
Jamie Collins... Consistent guy, inside or out. Aged (30) & could come at a decent price. Scheme dependent?
Robert Quinn... 4-3 DE, but could easily transition to OLB.
Whitney Mercilus... Not really a premier FA, but a dependable guy. Will turn 31 offseason.
Vic Beasley... Another 4-3 DE. Risky, but still young & talented.

TE
Eric Ebron... Easily the most talented & well-rounded in the FA group. But still carries some risk.
Austin Hooper... Good pass-catcher but not sure about his blocking skills?
Jack Doyle... Indy will likely keep him over Ebron.
Hunter Henry... Young & injury prone. Risky but very talented.
Nick Vannett... Trades for players in a contract year rarely result in them not getting a new contract.
Vance McDonald... 2020 & 2021 are club options under his current contract. Still an injury prone player.

IOL
Brandon Scherff... Young & pricey. Best in run game.
Joe Thuney... Another young & pricey option. Best in pass-pro.
BJ Finney... UFA that the steelers no longer can hold the rights to with EFA/RFA tenders.
Clint Boling... Savvy vet, but aged 30.
Marshal Yanda... UC through 2020, but expected to be cut or traded. In decline, but serviceable at 34 years old.

WR
Amari Cooper... DAL has to pay either Dak or Amari. Not sure if they can do both.
AJ Green... 32 next year. But could easily be a renaissance type player.
Robby Anderson... Young & inconsistent. But in the right offense could do damage.
Nelson Agholor... See Robby Anderson.
Emmanuel Sanders... One foot out the door at 32, but a contender could use him. SF will likely try to retain him.
Larry Fitzgerald... Seems he'd rather retire than sign elsewhere.
DeVante Parker... 2020 is a club option for Miami.
Devin Funchess... Meh.
Randall Cobb... Slot.
Breshad Perriman... Meh.
Phillip Dorsett... Small but dynamic.
Josh Gordon... Not sure if Seattle will want to retain him if he doesn't prove himself.
Chester Rogers... Young & athletic.
Dez Bryant... Still tryin to make a comeback.

RB
Melvin Gordon.. Big fish in this FA group.
Derrick Henry... Tantalizing prospect, but probably overpriced in this upcoming market. Not a pass-catcher.
Kareem Hunt... Still has immense potential. Might leave CLE for a starting gig if he eats into Chubb's role.
Kenyan Drake... AZ should retain, but pending UFA.
Carlos Hyde/Peyton Barber/Isaiah Crowell... 1-cut bruiser types.
Lamar Miller... 30 year old coming off knee injury. Scary.
LeSean McCoy... Slowed by age & injuries. 31 in July.
Jordan Howard... Inconsistent, but proven to play very well.
Chris Thompson... Pass catching specialist, but has proven worthy between the tackles.
CJ Prosise... Haven't seen him in a lead role much, but seems like the hype has been consistent.
Gus Edwards... Doubt BAL lets him walk.

IDL
Marcell Dareus... 2020 club option. Would be the big fish if they let him explore FA.
Chris Jones... DE that plays inside & out. The current big fish of the group.
Michael Brockers... Very versatile & young. Should easily find a contract.
Leonard Williams... Traded in contract year. He's not going anywhere.
Javon Hargrave... Young & pricey. But the IDL market is rich with talent. The Steelers could get lucky & resign.
Jarran Reed... Another youthful talent.
Jordan Phillips... Another youthful talent.
Danny Shelton... Stout interior guy.
Gerald McCoy/Ndamukong Suh... Aged but serviceable.
Timmy Jernigan... Athletic guy with power.
Josh Mauro... Long time no see former UDFA. Still a stout interior guy, but plays well outside at DE too.

Bump @ATL96Steeler

Edge list isn't as lengthy as I recalled... But still options. Obviously everything hinges on the market value against Bud's tag.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Watching the Colbert presser live at the combine right now...

Colbert is getting hounded by the combine media for stating that he thinks Ben could be a "better football player in 2020" based mainly on the fact that he sat out a year without any wear or tear. But of course everyone wants to make that about his arm.

Can't wait to see the articles flooding in about it.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

JFC... Combine media just can't help themselves... They keep asking about the Mason Rudolph racial allegation. Poor Colbert just keeps shutting it down saying Tomlin has already addressed it and he's there to talk about the combine and the roster moving forward.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Colbert gave James Conner a vote of confidence just now... Saying they hope he can regain his 2018 form. Didn't say it was his job though, so theres that

 

[ATL96Steeler]

For future FA discussions in here... Here's a list of top FAs (unranked) for the positions that we have deemed as a need in the upcoming offseason...

OLB
Jadeveon Clowney... Not going anywhere given the trade haul Seattle gave up. But for now, he's a pending UFA.
Shaq Barrett... What a year this guy is having. Young & pricey.
Bud Dupree... For all the grief we give him, he's still having a decent year. I don't want the Steelers to overpay.
Dante Fowler Jr... To me he's a Bud Dupree type player. Output doesn't necessarily match the athleticism.
Jamie Collins... Consistent guy, inside or out. Aged (30) & could come at a decent price. Scheme dependent?
Robert Quinn... 4-3 DE, but could easily transition to OLB.
Whitney Mercilus... Not really a premier FA, but a dependable guy. Will turn 31 offseason.
Vic Beasley... Another 4-3 DE. Risky, but still young & talented.

TE
Eric Ebron... Easily the most talented & well-rounded in the FA group. But still carries some risk.
Austin Hooper... Good pass-catcher but not sure about his blocking skills?
Jack Doyle... Indy will likely keep him over Ebron.
Hunter Henry... Young & injury prone. Risky but very talented.
Nick Vannett... Trades for players in a contract year rarely result in them not getting a new contract.
Vance McDonald... 2020 & 2021 are club options under his current contract. Still an injury prone player.

IOL
Brandon Scherff... Young & pricey. Best in run game.
Joe Thuney... Another young & pricey option. Best in pass-pro.
BJ Finney... UFA that the steelers no longer can hold the rights to with EFA/RFA tenders.
Clint Boling... Savvy vet, but aged 30.
Marshal Yanda... UC through 2020, but expected to be cut or traded. In decline, but serviceable at 34 years old.

WR
Amari Cooper... DAL has to pay either Dak or Amari. Not sure if they can do both.
AJ Green... 32 next year. But could easily be a renaissance type player.
Robby Anderson... Young & inconsistent. But in the right offense could do damage.
Nelson Agholor... See Robby Anderson.
Emmanuel Sanders... One foot out the door at 32, but a contender could use him. SF will likely try to retain him.
Larry Fitzgerald... Seems he'd rather retire than sign elsewhere.
DeVante Parker... 2020 is a club option for Miami.
Devin Funchess... Meh.
Randall Cobb... Slot.
Breshad Perriman... Meh.
Phillip Dorsett... Small but dynamic.
Josh Gordon... Not sure if Seattle will want to retain him if he doesn't prove himself.
Chester Rogers... Young & athletic.
Dez Bryant... Still tryin to make a comeback.

RB
Melvin Gordon.. Big fish in this FA group.
Derrick Henry... Tantalizing prospect, but probably overpriced in this upcoming market. Not a pass-catcher.
Kareem Hunt... Still has immense potential. Might leave CLE for a starting gig if he eats into Chubb's role.
Kenyan Drake... AZ should retain, but pending UFA.
Carlos Hyde/Peyton Barber/Isaiah Crowell... 1-cut bruiser types.
Lamar Miller... 30 year old coming off knee injury. Scary.
LeSean McCoy... Slowed by age & injuries. 31 in July.
Jordan Howard... Inconsistent, but proven to play very well.
Chris Thompson... Pass catching specialist, but has proven worthy between the tackles.
CJ Prosise... Haven't seen him in a lead role much, but seems like the hype has been consistent.
Gus Edwards... Doubt BAL lets him walk.

IDL
Marcell Dareus... 2020 club option. Would be the big fish if they let him explore FA.
Chris Jones... DE that plays inside & out. The current big fish of the group.
Michael Brockers... Very versatile & young. Should easily find a contract.
Leonard Williams... Traded in contract year. He's not going anywhere.
Javon Hargrave... Young & pricey. But the IDL market is rich with talent. The Steelers could get lucky & resign.
Jarran Reed... Another youthful talent.
Jordan Phillips... Another youthful talent.
Danny Shelton... Stout interior guy.
Gerald McCoy/Ndamukong Suh... Aged but serviceable.
Timmy Jernigan... Athletic guy with power.
Josh Mauro... Long time no see former UDFA. Still a stout interior guy, but plays well outside at DE too.

Wow...this deserved a winner some time ago.

Looking back at it now.

Edge...It's starting to look like Clowney will hit the FA market, iirc, SEA signed with the agreement they wouldn't tag him. SEA does have $50 ml to work with, but I don't see them spending half of it on Clowney. MIA looks like a potential landing spot if Clowney wants max money...the Dolphins have the cap cash and very likely to go with a rookie QB and maybe let Fitz run it one more year if need be. We shall see.

Shaq Barrett, I'm hearing is likely staying in Tampa...they also have the cap cash....after him Bud starts to look pretty good even at $16 mil. I like Quinn if the # is right. Vic Beasley is truly more suited for a 34 edge, but he's never going to be a strong run support guy to me. Has the athleticism to play in space and cover...he can get to the QB if you scheme him which you can do in a 34. For the difference in money saved, I like Bud's run def enough to pay the $16m over saving....say, $3 or 4 mil with Beasley. I don't see Beasley as a Steeler.

Fowler...never the same after the rookie injury imo. Take Bud. Mercilus would have to be much cheaper than $16 mil, playing with JJ and Clowney, he's never been a good Robin...Collins is interesting...I think he'd pick up the scheme fine, he's not really a flatout beat you guy either, but can follow a scheme and be effective....I don't feel like he's much more than a $6ml per player, but that might not be near enough.

Looking at the rest of your work here.

TE...ATL is going to let Hooper test the market, still enough interest there but ATL is tight like PIT with cap funds. Developed into a good blocker...imo the best two-way TE on the FA market, in a noted weak TE draft, I could see NE offering him a deal high enough that ATL would have to let him go.

WR...should've kept his damn mouth shut, but wouldn't Sanders be a good vet fit in PIT right now?