2019 Offseason

[CEH]

Once you place your bare reputation on a hot Osweiler - you are very careful not to make that mistake again.

With Paxton Lynch being the second kick of the mule in Elway's education.

I think Elway made the mistake of not signing Brock in 2015. Manning after the Rams game in 2014 was really struggling.
I think Brock in Denver under Kubiak at say $12MM a year would have been different than Brock in Houston.

 

[CEH]

Based on what the Jets gave up to move up from 6 to 3 last year it will cost us much more then our second. The Jets sent #6, #37, and #49 in 2018 plus their 2019 2nd rounder. That is a lot of picks to move up 3 spots. Depending no how high we need to move up we would be looking at #10 and two 2nds and a 3rd as a starting point. Is Drew Lock worth not having 3 other prospects? He is if we are sure he is going to be the stating QB here for the next 10 years and be able to keep the offense relevant. I am not sure we can say any prospect is going is that type of impact player with complete certainty, especially at the QB position. The closest QB prospect that might be that player would be Lawrence in 2021.

Yep that's why I don't see Denver moving up this year. Last year was the time to go all in being at #5 and Baker and Darnold rated as as top QBs.

 

[Mingo]

I bet it costs more then this to move up to 3. A 2nd would get you to 5 probably.

LOL - you're the professor.

 

[iknowftbll]

I think Elway made the mistake of not signing Brock in 2015. Manning after the Rams game in 2014 was really struggling.
I think Brock in Denver under Kubiak at say $12MM a year would have been different than Brock in Houston.

I thought the Broncos made a pretty competitive offer, the Texans just outbid them. I do agree had he stayed with us the 2016 season would have looked a little better for us.

 

[cdumler7]

I’ve been curious what your assessment on Lock is. You are far more knowledgeable of the draft and the prospects than I am. But the more I learn the more I consider Lock to be a good option if he’s available at 10. Not sure how I feel about trading up for him.

Definitely have some thoughts about this kid.

Pros:
1) Improved every single season while in college
2) Improved his senior year as the season progressed in a new system. Showed improved footwork and ability to handle pressure as the season progressed.
3) Put up pretty decent stats considering he was in the SEC and on a not so great team.
4) Handled a very bad situation that he was thrown into at Missouri with the protests and his coach leaving.
5) Big arm that can truly make every throw in the book.
6) Improved his ability to manipulate the pocket as his college career progressed.
7) Improved his ability to move a safety to help open up some deep shots down the field
8) Not afraid to take deep shots and for the most part showed good accuracy when footwork was right.
9) Compact throwing motion that will help him in the NFL.
10) Well liked by teammates and coaches. Was told by those at the Senior Bowl that as soon as he walked into a room every one knew he was the man. No other player at the event had that type of feeling. I remember last year when I was at the Senior Bowl that Baker Mayfield caused the same reaction.
11) I like that he is willing to self evaluate and work through his weaknesses.

Cons:
1) Footwork is atrocious. Needs some time to clean this up if he is going to make it in the NFL.
2) Will need a system that plays to his strengths
3) Takes too many chances for my liking. Trusts his arm more than he should.
4) Gets locked onto his first read and struggles sometimes to come off of it
5) Fumbles way too often
6) Can really struggle with pressure
7) Didn't always show the ability to lead his team when they absolutely needed a play
8) This is not so much a con but just an unknown of not sure how well he handles the football intelligence side of the game. Can he handle an NFL playbook, read a defense, and so on.

Overall I like the kid and think the Broncos are a good fit for him. He wouldn't be asked to start day 1 with Case Keenum in the building. They can actually take a little time and develop him kind of like the Chiefs did with Mahomes. The best comparison I have heard about him is that he is Jay Cutler with a much better personality. If we are getting the best version of Jay Cutler like say 2008 then that is a top-10 type QB. I can live with that.

 

[cdumler7]

Also as for last year and moving up the Broncos made some huge offers to try and get up to 2. They had a deal in place with the Giants to send them the 5th overall pick, 1st in 2019, and 1st in 2020 if I remember right. Giants agreed the night before the draft began. At the last minute the Giants called back and said they wanted another 1st round pick or no deal. Broncos couldn't justify sending another 1st round pick to get up to 2.

That then meant that their top-2 QB's in Darnold and Mayfield were gone and they were not sold on Allen and Rosen. If you are not sold on a QB then I can't blame the Broncos for not wanting to use a top-5 pick on the guy. That is how you set your franchise back. Yes maybe the Broncos were wrong on those guys and they regret that decision down the road. Always the chance you take. This year they seem to be locked onto Lock. They love his personality, arm, and huge potential that he offers. They also think he is a great fit for the type of offense they are envisioning moving forward. IF that is the case then go get your guy. I hope they don't have to trade up to get him as obviously sacrificing future picks means less to work with, but again this is the QB position we are talking about and I doubt teams like the Rams and Eagles regret moving up to get their guys.

 

[iknowftbll]

Definitely have some thoughts about this kid.

Pros:
1) Improved every single season while in college
2) Improved his senior year as the season progressed in a new system. Showed improved footwork and ability to handle pressure as the season progressed.
3) Put up pretty decent stats considering he was in the SEC and on a not so great team.
4) Handled a very bad situation that he was thrown into at Missouri with the protests and his coach leaving.
5) Big arm that can truly make every throw in the book.
6) Improved his ability to manipulate the pocket as his college career progressed.
7) Improved his ability to move a safety to help open up some deep shots down the field
8) Not afraid to take deep shots and for the most part showed good accuracy when footwork was right.
9) Compact throwing motion that will help him in the NFL.
10) Well liked by teammates and coaches. Was told by those at the Senior Bowl that as soon as he walked into a room every one knew he was the man. No other player at the event had that type of feeling. I remember last year when I was at the Senior Bowl that Baker Mayfield caused the same reaction.
11) I like that he is willing to self evaluate and work through his weaknesses.

Cons:
1) Footwork is atrocious. Needs some time to clean this up if he is going to make it in the NFL.
2) Will need a system that plays to his strengths
3) Takes too many chances for my liking. Trusts his arm more than he should.
4) Gets locked onto his first read and struggles sometimes to come off of it
5) Fumbles way too often
6) Can really struggle with pressure
7) Didn't always show the ability to lead his team when they absolutely needed a play
8) This is not so much a con but just an unknown of not sure how well he handles the football intelligence side of the game. Can he handle an NFL playbook, read a defense, and so on.

Overall I like the kid and think the Broncos are a good fit for him. He wouldn't be asked to start day 1 with Case Keenum in the building. They can actually take a little time and develop him kind of like the Chiefs did with Mahomes. The best comparison I have heard about him is that he is Jay Cutler with a much better personality. If we are getting the best version of Jay Cutler like say 2008 then that is a top-10 type QB. I can live with that.

Some of that can be worked out with good coaching. The things you cited in the pros are why I think I’d be good with the Broncos taking him. Consistent improvement against some of the better and best competition the NCAA has is important to me. Haskins is a one-year starter and guys like that always make me nervous. A guy like Lock I’m more confident can and will grow well into the team around him.

I also think I’d rather see him start day 1, ready or not. If the Broncos aren’t planning on moving forward with Keenum why not go all in on resetting the franchise in 2019. Especially if we don’t consider the team contenders next year. That’s tough because we always want to be able to believe in the team. And some think Keenum will do better with the new staff. I just think it’s better in the long run if the new staff and new QB get to go all in on a “honeymoon” season so we’re done with transitioning after 2019 and not breaking in a new QB after breaking in a new staff.

I’m not vested in this belief though. I can be convinced otherwise.

 

[cdumler7]

Some of that can be worked out with good coaching. The things you cited in the pros are why I think I’d be good with the Broncos taking him. Consistent improvement against some of the better and best competition the NCAA has is important to me. Haskins is a one-year starter and guys like that always make me nervous. A guy like Lock I’m more confident can and will grow well into the team around him.

I also think I’d rather see him start day 1, ready or not. If the Broncos aren’t planning on moving forward with Keenum why not go all in on resetting the franchise in 2019. Especially if we don’t consider the team contenders next year. That’s tough because we always want to be able to believe in the team. And some think Keenum will do better with the new staff. I just think it’s better in the long run if the new staff and new QB get to go all in on a “honeymoon” season so we’re done with transitioning after 2019 and not breaking in a new QB after breaking in a new staff.

I’m not vested in this belief though. I can be convinced otherwise.

Let me try to convince you a little. If you look at many of the top QB's in the NFL right now most of them sat at the early part of their career. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Rivers, Patrick Mahomes, Jared Goff, heck even this past year Baker Mayfield sat for a few games. So while the league seems to want to microwave the growth of these players as much as possible because of the impatience of fans/FO people there seems to be a trend that sometimes showing just a bit of patience can pay off big time.

To me I would rather he get his footwork a little more mastered before sending him on the field and pretty much making it difficult to ever work out those issues because of early hits. I don't think you have to bench him the entire year, but if say even just for the first quarter of the season could be a huge help in his development and ability to handle being on the field full time.

 

[Mingo]

How is it possible that Lock could start so many games and still be clueless on the footwork for the job? Do you think Missouri just forgot to coach him on footwork? I'd say that is a bright red flag for me.

 

[fightinredantz]

I like the idea of starting the season with Keenum if we draft Lock and evaluate every 4 games. If games the direction of the offense is not good or the team is out of contention, make a switch. Injury is the wild card that can force the backup in early. That is what happened with Mayfield.

 

[CEH]

How is it possible that Lock could start so many games and still be clueless on the footwork for the job? Do you think Missouri just forgot to coach him on footwork? I'd say that is a bright red flag for me.

That was my thought
Manning was always working on his footwork even late in his career

Lock like cutler throws off his back foot a lot. Watch the cutups


Why is Lock not working on footwork to become a better QB in college

Death by inches. It’s this small stuff that Elway needs to figure out.

Why not work on it an easy exercise to perform anywhere anytime

 

[CEH]

Also as for last year and moving up the Broncos made some huge offers to try and get up to 2. They had a deal in place with the Giants to send them the 5th overall pick, 1st in 2019, and 1st in 2020 if I remember right. Giants agreed the night before the draft began. At the last minute the Giants called back and said they wanted another 1st round pick or no deal. Broncos couldn't justify sending another 1st round pick to get up to 2.

That then meant that their top-2 QB's in Darnold and Mayfield were gone and they were not sold on Allen and Rosen. If you are not sold on a QB then I can't blame the Broncos for not wanting to use a top-5 pick on the guy. That is how you set your franchise back. Yes maybe the Broncos were wrong on those guys and they regret that decision down the road. Always the chance you take. This year they seem to be locked onto Lock. They love his personality, arm, and huge potential that he offers. They also think he is a great fit for the type of offense they are envisioning moving forward. IF that is the case then go get your guy. I hope they don't have to trade up to get him as obviously sacrificing future picks means less to work with, but again this is the QB position we are talking about and I doubt teams like the Rams and Eagles regret moving up to get their guys.

No RB is worth 3 #1 picks
If Gettleman passed that up he’s a an idiot

 

[nflbronco]

No RB is worth 3 #1 picks
If Gettleman passed that up he’s a an idiot

LOL NYG 5th pick Chubb Barkley 19 6th and 10th pick idiots

 

[fightinredantz]

I believe Elway May use some vets to try to acquire more or better draft capital. I would not be surprised if Booker is a potential trade target of some teams. I am not sure what type of offer we may receive but he didn’t hurt his stock last year and would walk after next year likely.

 

[LGM]

That was my thought
Manning was always working on his footwork even late in his career

Lock like cutler throws off his back foot a lot. Watch the cutups


Why is Lock not working on footwork to become a better QB in college

Death by inches. It’s this small stuff that Elway needs to figure out.

Why not work on it an easy exercise to perform anywhere anytime

Good grief you're 'death by inches' is becoming as annoying as Alex Gibbs.

Footwork varies for each pass pattern. If your offense focuses more on short passes, you don't work on deep outs/comebacks.

Also, a number of colleges don't preach footwork if the kid is accurate enough to run the offense. He also might have had more issues with reading defenses, and they just never had the time to work on it.

 

[CEH]

Call it attention to detail . Call it whatever

Whatever it is lost the chiefs a chance to go to the super bowl by lining up offsides.

 

[iknowftbll]

Call it attention to detail . Call it whatever

Whatever it is lost the chiefs a chance to go to the super bowl by lining up offsides.

Footwork for a QB CANNOT be compared to a pre-snap penalty for a DE or OLB. It is not even remotely close and completely unworthy of comparison in the context of this conversation.

 

[iknowftbll]

Let me try to convince you a little. If you look at many of the top QB's in the NFL right now most of them sat at the early part of their career. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Rivers, Patrick Mahomes, Jared Goff, heck even this past year Baker Mayfield sat for a few games. So while the league seems to want to microwave the growth of these players as much as possible because of the impatience of fans/FO people there seems to be a trend that sometimes showing just a bit of patience can pay off big time.

To me I would rather he get his footwork a little more mastered before sending him on the field and pretty much making it difficult to ever work out those issues because of early hits. I don't think you have to bench him the entire year, but if say even just for the first quarter of the season could be a huge help in his development and ability to handle being on the field full time.

I do somewhat agree here.

I think my mindset has less to do with “microwaving” a QB and more to do with transitioning a new staff now and a year from now transitioning a new QB. I don’t think that incremental approach is good for the team.

I’ve been wrong plenty of times, and if Keenum is proclaimed the starter for week 1 I’ll definitely be rooting for him to succeed.

Also, a lot of this has to do with expectations. From where we sit now I don’t see results much better than 8-8 next year. If the difference between Keenum and Lock was dropping from 8-8 to 7-9 or even 6-10, I’d be willing to take it.

That changes entirely if I felt the Broncos were playoff contenders with Keenum. And of course, since I tend to be optimistic about the Broncos there is probably a point coming where I’ll start believing in this team. So I reserve the right to change my tune as the off season progresses. From where we sit now, I think concerns about footwork and coaching them out of a guy like Lock are better addressed if he’s starting, seeing film, and reacting to mistakes.

 

[fightinredantz]

Article on top potential free agents for Denver.
Breaking down Denver's 'big three' free-agent targets in 2019

 

[cdumler7]

No RB is worth 3 #1 picks
If Gettleman passed that up he’s a an idiot

I don't disagree he was stupid to pass on the deal and try to squeeze more out of the Broncos.