2017-2018 NBA Regular Season Thread

[DJ Fieri]

Of course it wasn't by accident. In Cleveland, he wasn't "the man." Lebron was and everything played off of him. In Boston, especially with Hayward out, Kyrie is the man and everything plays off of him. Kyrie is a great player. He was a great player in Cleveland, but he was taking a backseat to Lebron. It's similar to Kobe after Shaq left. Kobe was already a great player, but he grew into an all time great when he was out from under Shaq's shadow.

Yep.

 

[gordontrue]

I totally agree with your points.

What I'm trying to say is Kyrie was finally able to spread his wings once he left. IMO if he stays it stunts his growth to some degree because his full potential wasn't used regularly. One gets better by practicing & in this case games are their practice & how they get experience.

I don't know... I think people are either overrating his role with Boston or - more likely - underrating the role he had with Cleveland.

His numbers are almost exactly spot on across the board. Same usage, same shot attempts, same assists, same rebounds, same points. He's obviously the go-to guy down the stretch for the Celtics... but he had become that guy with the Cavs too. If anything, its LeBron's role that has changed, as his assists and clutch-time scoring have gone up. With Kyrie gone and IT out, he's the defacto point guard and go-to guy down the stretch now.

Kyrie has the same role. The difference is now he is on a team with a better long-term future but a worse short-term ability to contend. He's also out of LeBron's shadow, but that's an off-the-court issue.

 

[trojanfan12]

Los Angeles Lakers Team Payroll | Basketball-Reference.com

If they get rid of Deng and Clarkson for basically nothing they'd have Ball, Ingram, Nance, Kuzma, Hart, Bryant, Zubac, and Ennis owed like $23 million. The cap is $101. They'd have 78 to get a couple max guys and add to the roster.

That wouldn't be bad at all, imo.

Is that getting rid of Deng so the he comes off the books completely? Because, so far, no one seems interested.

Which means they would need to stretch him...which hurts the cap space, but not as bad as keeping him on the current deal. Or extend him and stretch him...which still impacts the cap space, but not as much.

 

[LAD]

Of course it wasn't by accident. In Cleveland, he wasn't "the man." Lebron was and everything played off of him. In Boston, especially with Hayward out, Kyrie is the man and everything plays off of him. Kyrie is a great player. He was a great player in Cleveland, but he was taking a backseat to Lebron. It's similar to Kobe after Shaq left. Kobe was already a great player, but he grew into an all time great when he was out from under Shaq's shadow.

Exactly, which is why I say IMO playing under LBJ was stunting his growth to a certain degree.

 

[LAD]

I don't know... I think people are either overrating his role with Boston or - more likely - underrating the role he had with Cleveland.

His numbers are almost exactly spot on across the board. Same usage, same shot attempts, same assists, same rebounds, same points. He's obviously the go-to guy down the stretch for the Celtics... but he had become that guy with the Cavs too. If anything, its LeBron's role that has changed, as his assists and clutch-time scoring have gone up. With Kyrie gone and IT out, he's the defacto point guard and go-to guy down the stretch now.

Kyrie has the same role. The difference is now he is on a team with a better long-term future but a worse short-term ability to contend. He's also out of LeBron's shadow, but that's an off-the-court issue.

Also all correct, however, Kyrie's team has performed better. That's pretty interesting to me.

LBJ has ALWAYS played PG on EVERY team he's played on. The only difference now is he HAS to do it given the team's injuries - and he's now taking more shots - and passing to players that aren't as efficient at scoring as Kyrie is.

 

[trojanfan12]

Exactly, which is why I say IMO playing under LBJ was stunting his growth to a certain degree.

The difference is, Kyrie had already been in the league for 4 years and established himself as a guy you could build around when Lebron got homesick.

With Kobe, he was a rookie when he and Shaq came to the Lakers at the same time. Because of the presence of Shaq (and a veteran roster), Kobe was able to develop without the pressure of having to be the face of the franchise. It was until what? 5 or so years later, when Kobe was ready to take the lead that Shaq's presence became an issue.

The Lakers would be getting Lebron at a time when their young guys are still developing and learning. So Lebron's presence would make that development easier by removing much of the pressure.

Then, based on Lebron's age, he's likely ready to retire or move on just about the time the youngsters are ready to take over.

 

[LAD]

The Cavs don't seem to be having a problem getting guys who want to chase a ring with Lebron. If guys think they can win, they will be willing to come to the Lakers. Cleveland's issue is cap space, not getting guys who are willing to play with Lebron on a 1 year deal.



Been answered already, but here it is one more time. They will have Lonzo, Kuzma, Ingram, Hart and whatever other max FA they got with Lebron (presumably George). George would still be in his prime and the other 4 would be just entering theirs. There would be no "rebuild" at that time. Just adding more pieces.



Because there is a difference between good (Randle and Clarkson) and an all time great. When you get a chance to add an all time great who is still playing at an extremely high level, especially when you can do it while keeping much of your core intact, you do it.

LOL -So who has gone to Cleveland besides Love that's an all-time great - with the ability to make a difference? We saw what happened when Wade signed there.

You think PG is a great player? And more importantly, do you think he wants to play with LBJ? I don't know that we really know the answer to that question yet.

I get that he's a franchise player - and have no question about his ability to make a difference while he's there. My concern is when he leaves. Because, look at what happened when he left Cleveland the first time, then left Miami.

 

[gordontrue]

Also all correct, however, Kyrie's team has performed better. That's pretty interesting to me.

Is it really that meaningful that the team who already put up a better record last year than the Cavs are currently doing better after the swap... when IT hasn't even played yet?

Celtics are playing awesome, better than I or anyone expected... especially considering Hayward going down. Not trying to take away from that at all.

But I mean, they're 2 games up on the Cavs who still haven't gotten Kyrie's replacement out on the floor yet.

 

[LAD]

The difference is, Kyrie had already been in the league for 4 years and established himself as a guy you could build around when Lebron got homesick.

With Kobe, he was a rookie when he and Shaq came to the Lakers at the same time. Because of the presence of Shaq (and a veteran roster), Kobe was able to develop without the pressure of having to be the face of the franchise. It was until what? 5 or so years later, when Kobe was ready to take the lead that Shaq's presence became an issue.

The Lakers would be getting Lebron at a time when their young guys are still developing and learning. So Lebron's presence would make that development easier by removing much of the pressure.

Then, based on Lebron's age, he's likely ready to retire or move on just about the time the youngsters are ready to take over.

I guess it's possible, personally I just wouldn't want to see the team take the risk of being left in rebuild mode when he leaves.

 

[gordontrue]

We saw what happened when Wade signed there.

The Cavs having a productive bench for the first time in years??

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

As I said, they would still have Ball, Nance, Kuzma, Ingram, Hart and whatever younger max FA (presumably PG) to put pieces around.

.....and the 8.4 mil mid level.

Rudy Gay took it to be a Spur.

West took the minimum, 3 times, for a chance to win.

Having a D Wade in the 2 nd unit for the minimum would be a win, even in this state of decline.

Ditto for a Rondo type if you get Boogie.

 

[LAD]

Is it really that meaningful that the team who already put up a better record last year than the Cavs are currently doing better after the swap... when IT hasn't even played yet?

Celtics are playing awesome, better than I or anyone expected... especially considering Hayward going down. Not trying to take away from that at all.

But I mean, they're 2 games up on the Cavs who still haven't gotten Kyrie's replacement out on the floor yet.

Yes, it's VERY meaningful considering they gave up a couple of key guys to make room for Kyrie & Hayward. I think most importantly they're defending better this year - despite losing a few key defensive guys.

When we consider that the consensus is ANY team that has LBJ is automatically a great team - it's huge IMO that Kyrie has continued to lead his team straight to the top of that conference.

 

[gordontrue]

Rob Pelinka: "Sorry, LeBron, its a flattering offer, but we can't afford to lose Jordan Clarkson"

 

[LAD]

The Cavs having a productive bench for the first time in years??

Yes, eventually. But what had to happen for them to realize he's no longer a starter??

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I guess it's possible, personally I just wouldn't want to see the team take the risk of being left in rebuild mode when he leaves.

I totally see your point and would agree if it were any other aging player except LeBron.

Dude is an anomaly.

Just hope the guy he brings with him is not Noel at max money.

I don't for a second believe Magic would do that.

Now, Noel for Mid level?

Yeah.....take a swing.

Wouldn't be surprised to see the Lakers give Midget Isiah a look either.

I'd give him a Milsap deal if he comes back strong in the 2nd half.

At least nobody would ever mention Lonzo's lack of scoring.

But, they'd get torched on defense....lol

 

[gordontrue]

Yes, eventually. But what had to happen for them to realize he's no longer a starter??

Seems like Lue knew it all along, but allowed Wade the opportunity to discover it on his own and be the one to initiate change. Well worth a few losses for the added chemistry, and role-buy-in that comes with that.

Managing NBA personalities is the one thing that Lue is unquestionably great at, imo.

 

[trojanfan12]

LOL -So who has gone to Cleveland besides Love that's an all-time great - with the ability to make a difference? We saw what happened when Wade signed there.

Yeah, it took him about 4 or 5 games to point out that he should come off the bench and the Cavs are now 21-8 and have won 16 of their last 17.

Also, I didn't say anything about all time greats signing with the Cavs, I said getting guys who are willing to chase rings with Lebron on a 1 year deal. As I pointed out, there issue is cap space, not finding guys who are willing to play in Cleveland with Lebron.

You think PG is a great player? And more importantly, do you think he wants to play with LBJ?

He's pretty damn good. An all star level/max level player. I'd expect that he wouldn't have a problem playing with Lebron. It'd be a helluva a lot easier than playing with Westbrook and Melo.

Assuming the Lakers got Lebron, PG would be looking at choosing between staying in an iso offense with 2 of the more selfish players in the league vs. going to a team with a true pass first point guard, in an offense that is based on ball movement/finding the open player and that just added arguably the most unselfish superstar since Magic.

Yeah, I think he might sign up for that. lol

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Yes, eventually. But what had to happen for them to realize he's no longer a starter??

I mean, they righted that mistake by week 2.

So, no harm done really.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Los Angeles Lakers Team Payroll | Basketball-Reference.com

If they get rid of Deng and Clarkson for basically nothing they'd have Ball, Ingram, Nance, Kuzma, Hart, Bryant, Zubac, and Ennis owed like $23 million. The cap is $101. They'd have 78 to get a couple max guys and add to the roster.

No they won't....lol

Deny would still cost you cap space.

Stretching him only gives you another 10 mil, not his whole salary.


With the $36.8 million owed to Deng over the next two, the Lakers can stretch him out to $7.4 million over five years, which would open $9.8 million in additional cap space in July.

That isn't quite enough to get to two max slots, putting the Lakers at about $57.3 million in space.

With the $36.8 million owed to Deng over the next two, the Lakers can stretch him out to $7.4 million over five years, which would open $9.8 million in additional cap space in July.

That isn't quite enough to get to two max slots, putting the Lakers at about $57.3 million in space.

 

[trojanfan12]

and have no question about his ability to make a difference while he's there. My concern is when he leaves. Because, look at what happened when he left Cleveland the first time, then left Miami.

In Cleveland the first time, he was literally all they had and they didn't do anything to get him a better supporting cast. In Miami, he was playing with a veteran core of players who got old and who lost Chris Bosh right after Lebron left.

With the Lakers, he would be joining a much younger core group which would be left intact.