2015 Pirates

[element1286]

I like Butler, but his dip in walk rate last year is a little alarming, I think. If that was a fluke, I think he'd do well in Pittsburgh. If it isn't, and he simply won't walk as much moving forward, he loses a lot of his value.

Yeah agreed, if there wasn't risk he'd probably be looking at a much bigger deal.

 

[thecrow124]

Stanton and Marlins discussing 300 million dollar deal.

12/$320 are the latest rumors, insane for a guy that doesn't play full seasons and he is only 24. If he is injury prone at that age, just imagine how well he will age. That being said, for a few years it will be a bargain, but could be an albatross of a deal by the midpoint of the extention.

 

[Darkstone42]

Yeah agreed, if there wasn't risk he'd probably be looking at a much bigger deal.

Kind of tempting to go after him at the money he'll command after a down year, though, if we think he can bounce back this year. He has pretty big career platoon splits, though, which is a little less tempting. Not Gaby Sanchez big (he's still at least above average against righties), but not small, either. If we were to sign him, though, it would have to be as our definite everyday 1B.

 

[Darkstone42]

12/$320 are the latest rumors, insane for a guy that doesn't play full seasons and he is only 24. If he is injury prone at that age, just imagine how well he will age. That being said, for a few years it will be a bargain, but could be an albatross of a deal by the midpoint of the extention.

There are some definite causes for concern signing Stanton to a long deal like that, but this year's injury at least was a freak incident, and the very recent past holds the most weight for most things. There's a decent chance he stays mostly healthy throughout the contract, or at least healthy enough to make it worthwhile.

But he's also a big guy, and big guys often break down earlier, so I guess we'll see.

 

[element1286]

Kind of tempting to go after him at the money he'll command after a down year, though, if we think he can bounce back this year. He has pretty big career platoon splits, though, which is a little less tempting. Not Gaby Sanchez big (he's still at least above average against righties), but not small, either. If we were to sign him, though, it would have to be as our definite everyday 1B.

Not a fun situation there at first base, a lot of options, and a lot of questions marks.

Even a clear upgrade like Laroche is still a 2win type of player. Decent, but nothing special.

 

[element1286]

12/$320 are the latest rumors, insane for a guy that doesn't play full seasons and he is only 24. If he is injury prone at that age, just imagine how well he will age. That being said, for a few years it will be a bargain, but could be an albatross of a deal by the midpoint of the extention.

Mega deals like that just don't work, never a good idea. 7/180 is probably a fair deal on both sides, he'll still be able to get another 5 year deal, if he keeps his performance up, when he is 31/32.

 

[thecrow124]

Read today that there are 4 teams still in on Martin. Not sure when the actual report was, but it sheds a little light onto what is going on. Not much but a little. I think it was Jon Heyman that reported that the Dodgers, Cubs, Pirates and Blue Jays were still in. He went on to say that the Pirates made a "strong offer" during the season. He doesn't go into detail about what a strong deal is, but if Martin is asking for 5 years, it kind of makes you think he already has a good 4 year offer.
If it is truly a strong offer, then one would conclude that it would be 4/$50 at the low end and 4/$60 at the upper end. I think at those numbers, especially at the upper end, a team would be hard pressed to beat that deal in terms of sheer dollars, hence the talk of 5 years.
The 5 years would scare me, but at some point, you have to extend yourself beyond where you are comfortable, to borrow a Huntington phrase. I would actually be ok with it, because it would completely bridge the gap between Martin and McGuire and allow him to develop slowly. I know I have brought up Diaz' name in the past, but in reality, he is still just a prospect. A well respected one at that, and could be used as a trade piece to fill other holes on your roster.

 

[Darkstone42]

Read today that there are 4 teams still in on Martin. Not sure when the actual report was, but it sheds a little light onto what is going on. Not much but a little. I think it was Jon Heyman that reported that the Dodgers, Cubs, Pirates and Blue Jays were still in. He went on to say that the Pirates made a "strong offer" during the season. He doesn't go into detail about what a strong deal is, but if Martin is asking for 5 years, it kind of makes you think he already has a good 4 year offer.
If it is truly a strong offer, then one would conclude that it would be 4/$50 at the low end and 4/$60 at the upper end. I think at those numbers, especially at the upper end, a team would be hard pressed to beat that deal in terms of sheer dollars, hence the talk of 5 years.
The 5 years would scare me, but at some point, you have to extend yourself beyond where you are comfortable, to borrow a Huntington phrase. I would actually be ok with it, because it would completely bridge the gap between Martin and McGuire and allow him to develop slowly. I know I have brought up Diaz' name in the past, but in reality, he is still just a prospect. A well respected one at that, and could be used as a trade piece to fill other holes on your roster.

As long as there isn't a no-trade clause, I would also be okay with five years, because I do think he will carry value on the trade market even at the end of that deal, so if Diaz plays his way into the starting role, we could reap some definite assets by dealing Martin with a year or two left on his deal.

If Diaz flares out, though, as you said, Martin could bridge the gap to McGuire, whose glove alone almost guarantees him Major League playing time barring career-ending injury. And even so, five years gives us the time to sort that out.

I do fear the Dodgers, in particular, will throw something like 5/90 at him, though, and that's just something we can't match.

 

[steelparrot]

Pirates Sign A.J. Burnett ? MLB Trade Rumors



lol who would have thought

 

[steelparrot]

I thought he was playing games with the Pirates last offseason, now he takes 4 mill less to come back... kinda confused lol


I expect his era comes down at least .5 from last year if not a full run. He will be worth the $$$ unless he gets hurt.

 

[element1286]

Whoa, figured that bridge was burned. Amazing what a year in the that craphole org will do.

Good deal, for one year at that rate.

 

[element1286]

They still need one more, hopefully Liriano or Santana.

Also, getting a solid #3 for 8.5 million really opens up options to add salary in other places, ie a better offer to Martin or more money into first base, even assuming they spend 12/per on another starter.

 

[sychmd]

just not having a good feeling with burnett.
hope i am wrong, but the age makes me a bit nervous.
1 year is great, so they can get other things, but i actually liked volquez and his potential better than burnett.
8.5 is hard to beat for someone who hopefully will produce a 13-7 3.4 ERA and hopefully eat innings.
hoping he isn't the nibbler and .500 pitcher his track record shows.
bridge to kingham glasnow, and taillon.

 

[thedddd]

I am actually shocked that Burnett would be back.

I hope that means that Volquez won't be back and they don't expect Burnett to replace Liriano or a pitcher of that quality.

 

[Darkstone42]

They still need one more, hopefully Liriano or Santana.

Also, getting a solid #3 for 8.5 million really opens up options to add salary in other places, ie a better offer to Martin or more money into first base, even assuming they spend 12/per on another starter.

Short of a trade, I don't know if we can really upgrade at first base all that much with the money. There's just nothing on the market this offseason. I would consider sinking the extra cash into more and better pitching, honestly, if we can't get a deal done with Martin, though. Liriano or Santana and maybe a guy like Anderson or Billingsley. I would also consider taking a one-year flier on Josh Johnson, who probably wasn't nearly as bad as his ERA (which was twice his xFIP) in Toronto in 2013, if he can prove he's healthy.

 

[ramburgh]

If Burnett and Morton are the 4th and 5th then I like the deal. Still need two more starters especially with Morton not being ready to start the season. Maybe they bring back Volquez and Liriano? It is hard to project the money/years Volquez and Liriano will get. I would love to see a better number one starter for once. It will make or break the year. However, a rotation of Liriano, Cole, Volquez, Burnett, Morton/Woley/Locke should be solid throughout the season, but I don't see it carrying the team in the playoffs unless Cole kicks it up a gear and becomes a solid number one.

Ideally, I would like to see a trade for a better number one and go with 2-5 starters being Cole, Volquez/Liriano, Burnett and Morton/Worley/Locke as the rotation.

 

[thecrow124]

They still need one more, hopefully Liriano or Santana.

Also, getting a solid #3 for 8.5 million really opens up options to add salary in other places, ie a better offer to Martin or more money into first base, even assuming they spend 12/per on another starter.

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't touch Santana with a 10 foot pole. Way too much damage to his shoulder to me to feel good about signing him for any amount of money outside of the league minimum. I would still try to get Liriano and if not him then Billingsley.

On a completely different topic, last year we were said to have a lot of interrest in Jose Abreu, this year there are supposedly 3 teams that are seen as dark horses to sign Yasmani Tomas. I think with what Abreu showed this past season, there would be a lot less concern about giving a big contract to a Cuban powerhitter. With the Cervelli move and now getting Burnett back on a good contract, it makes me at least hopeful that we are one of this dark horse teams.

 

[TheBurgh88]

I assume they mean Ervin Santana and not Johan. I agree that Johan is done and warrants nothing more than a minor league deal.

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't touch Santana with a 10 foot pole. Way too much damage to his shoulder to me to feel good about signing him for any amount of money outside of the league minimum. I would still try to get Liriano and if not him then Billingsley.

On a completely different topic, last year we were said to have a lot of interrest in Jose Abreu, this year there are supposedly 3 teams that are seen as dark horses to sign Yasmani Tomas. I think with what Abreu showed this past season, there would be a lot less concern about giving a big contract to a Cuban powerhitter. With the Cervelli move and now getting Burnett back on a good contract, it makes me at least hopeful that we are one of this dark horse teams.

 

[Darkstone42]

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't touch Santana with a 10 foot pole. Way too much damage to his shoulder to me to feel good about signing him for any amount of money outside of the league minimum. I would still try to get Liriano and if not him then Billingsley.

On a completely different topic, last year we were said to have a lot of interrest in Jose Abreu, this year there are supposedly 3 teams that are seen as dark horses to sign Yasmani Tomas. I think with what Abreu showed this past season, there would be a lot less concern about giving a big contract to a Cuban powerhitter. With the Cervelli move and now getting Burnett back on a good contract, it makes me at least hopeful that we are one of this dark horse teams.

I also think we're going to see a bigger payroll this year, especially considering our struggles out of the gate last year. Signing Burnett, to me, means we won't see Volquez, thank goodness, but I do think, even with a guy or two knocking on the rotation's door this year, we should try to bring in a #1 and a #3 starter, be aggressive on Martin, and try to bring in a guy like Tomas. I know it would get expensive, but with Cutch and Walker looking to be in their primes, other pieces like Harrison, Marte, Mercer, and Snider and/or Polanco looking pretty capable, a strong bullpen for at least one more year, and some decent starters already on the team, this is a good year to go for it.

Huntington said they were willing to stretch beyond their comfort level, and revenue is up the last couple years, so to me that should be really expanding the payroll.

 

[thecrow124]

I assume they mean Ervin Santana and not Johan. I agree that Johan is done and warrants nothing more than a minor league deal.

Ervin makes a lot more sense..........I wonder why I never think of him when I read the name Santana? My thought process usually goes Carlos then Johan and pretty much stops there.