2015 Pirates

[steelparrot]

The Orioles are attempting to acquire Snider for “less” than two minor leaguers at present

Not sure what that really means, I would rather trade him for 1 minor leaguer than 4.

 

[Darkstone42]

Apparently the deal is done, and Tarpley is coming back, a pitcher in class A. I know very little about him.

 

[pixburgher66]

Apparently the deal is done, and Tarpley is coming back, a pitcher in class A. I know very little about him.

2013 3rd rounder, fastball tops at 97, LH, decent stats in NY-Penn this year. Still, unless this is fodder to beef up the major league roster, I'm pretty strongly against it. The bench was REALLY FREAKING GOOD...and they sold a piece of that good bench for something that's probably 3-4 years away if we're lucky. He's 21, and has upside with that fastball, and there's a PTBNL...but it just doesn't sit well with me. Maybe it's a salary dump to bring in Shields...you never know. *sigh*

 

[Darkstone42]

Tarpley's a lefty, 6-1, 200, 21 yo.

I guess his issue is consistency, but he sits 92-95 with the fastball, and can touch 97 late in games. One scout rated his curve a 70, and it has a good chance to be a plus pitch.

He finished 2014 strong, starting to show some consistency, and there's a chance he's turn the corner mentally. Should be in full-season A ball this year.

The Pirates have a lot of upside among their minor league pitchers, but not many lefties, so I can see why Tarpley, whose stuff is clearly excellent, was interesting to them. Kiley McDaniel ranked Tarpley 9th in the Orioles' system.

There's a PTBNL in the deal as well, so we'll see who that is, I suppose. Jon Keller (who was great last year) is a name which has been dropped, who has some command issues, but can touch 99 with his fastball, and could move quickly through the upper minors if he finds his command. He's just a bullpen arm, though.

I don't fully understand this move, though, unless it's opening up a roster spot for a subsequent move the team is planning. Or maybe the team just wants to finally give Lambo a chance and actually feel better about him than Snider, and decided to sell high on Snider.

 

[Darkstone42]

Huntington mentioned "roster and payroll flexibility" when discussing the move, which tells me he's got something else planned as a follow-up.

 

[thecrow124]

I don't understand the move, don't necessarily like it either. I liked Snider as the 4th outfielder, he had shown that he could start if need be as well. He was signed for $2.1 mil so it is not a move that needed to be made to free up salary. If they wanted to free up salary, all they had to do was not sign Kang, or not sign Burnett. Either one would have freed up more salary.

Unless for some strange reason Shields decided to come to Pittsburgh on a 1 year deal, I don't see us moving in that direction. There really isn't anyone else on the free agent market that even interests me either, so I am confused by the move.

It also doesn't much matter who the PTBNL is either because outside of Bundy and Harvey, there aren't any really good prospects in Baltimore's system. I wouldn't be completely upset if it was Brian Gonzalez, he could be decent I guess, but that cupboard is pretty bare and the return is not good for a player that could have started for 10-15 teams in the majors.

The only thing I can think is that Neil was basically doing Snider a favor by sending him to a place where he could be a starter. If I am not mistaken, he has done that before.

Anyway, not happy with the move.

 

[Darkstone42]

I don't understand the move, don't necessarily like it either. I liked Snider as the 4th outfielder, he had shown that he could start if need be as well. He was signed for $2.1 mil so it is not a move that needed to be made to free up salary. If they wanted to free up salary, all they had to do was not sign Kang, or not sign Burnett. Either one would have freed up more salary.

Unless for some strange reason Shields decided to come to Pittsburgh on a 1 year deal, I don't see us moving in that direction. There really isn't anyone else on the free agent market that even interests me either, so I am confused by the move.

It also doesn't much matter who the PTBNL is either because outside of Bundy and Harvey, there aren't any really good prospects in Baltimore's system. I wouldn't be completely upset if it was Brian Gonzalez, he could be decent I guess, but that cupboard is pretty bare and the return is not good for a player that could have started for 10-15 teams in the majors.

The only thing I can think is that Neil was basically doing Snider a favor by sending him to a place where he could be a starter. If I am not mistaken, he has done that before.

Anyway, not happy with the move.

The more I read about Tarpley, the more I like him (probably the best LHP in our minor leagues now), but it does feel like a "let's reward Snider with a starting gig" move more than anything else.

I don't think they'll get Shields, of course, but I wonder if they got Tarpley to make another pitcher in their system expendable in a deal to add someone else. He looks like he could be a left-handed version of a guy like Holmes or Keller, and maybe a team was asking about one of those guys in exchange for an upgrade on the Major League roster. It wouldn't surprise me.

 

[pixburgher66]

Hearing talk of Beachy and the Bucs. But I think that was from a "good fit" article, not an actual rumor.

 

[Darkstone42]

Hearing talk of Beachy and the Bucs. But I think that was from a "good fit" article, not an actual rumor.

A healthy Beachy would be a good add, but "healthy" is a big question mark.

 

[thedddd]

Yeah a healthy Beachy would be a very nice pickup.


As for the Snider trade I don't get it unless they feel Lambo, Hernandez or Tabata will fill the 4th OF spot. Not that Snider was great or anything but he filled the role perfectly.

 

[sychmd]

Yeah a healthy Beachy would be a very nice pickup.


As for the Snider trade I don't get it unless they feel Lambo, Hernandez or Tabata will fill the 4th OF spot. Not that Snider was great or anything but he filled the role perfectly.

lambo is the man. he was better than polanco in AAA and showed some signs last year in minimal opportunities in Sept.
if not, tabata and daecker are options or they can go get one if all 3 tank.

barring injury and a polanco flop, we are really talking about a late inning bat.
worst case scenario, we could play rodrigez in RF, or harrison in RF and kang at 3B, or other flexible parts.

getting 2 high potential pieces is worth it.

now if this is just the prelude of freeing up a 40 man spot for a pickup, that would be very interesting.
i like the fact he is moving and always trying to improve, but not necessarily breaking the bank and putting too many eggs in one basket, especially pitchers who are high risk investments year to year, even the good ones.

 

[thecrow124]

lambo is the man. he was better than polanco in AAA and showed some signs last year in minimal opportunities in Sept.
if not, tabata and daecker are options or they can go get one if all 3 tank.

barring injury and a polanco flop, we are really talking about a late inning bat.
worst case scenario, we could play rodrigez in RF, or harrison in RF and kang at 3B, or other flexible parts.

getting 2 high potential pieces is worth it.

now if this is just the prelude of freeing up a 40 man spot for a pickup, that would be very interesting.
i like the fact he is moving and always trying to improve, but not necessarily breaking the bank and putting too many eggs in one basket, especially pitchers who are high risk investments year to year, even the good ones.

Unfortunately, Talley is not a high potential piece. He is a high risk, low reward type right now.

 

[element1286]

I don't have a problem selling high on Snider, although the return is questionable.

But it's a curious time to sell him on a decent bench guy, it's not like they couldn't use him next year.

 

[thecrow124]

I just read that Ken Rosenthal is projecting a 4 year deal at less than $20 million per for Shields. Still well out of our price range, but it is getting to the point where we may actually want to start monitoring the situation a bit more closely. Possibly if it drops to 3/$54 range I think we could be players.

However, it still wouldn't follow the front offices MO, but at that point it wouldn't be out of realm of possibility.

 

[Darkstone42]

Unfortunately, Talley is not a high potential piece. He is a high risk, low reward type right now.

I think Tarpley is pretty high reward, actually. A lefty who can carry mid-90s deep into games with a plus curve and two other average offerings has a good skill set for a 2/3 type pitcher. But the risk is very high, given the consistency and maturity concerns.

It's also tough to fully evaluate the deal until we know who the PTBNL is. Is anyone out of the 2014 draft class especially interesting?

 

[thecrow124]

I don't have a problem selling high on Snider, although the return is questionable.

But it's a curious time to sell him on a decent bench guy, it's not like they couldn't use him next year.

The problem is that Snider is going to Baltimore, where he will probably hit 20-25 home runs next year and we will have to hear how we got rid of him to early and now he is entering his prime and breaking out to be the player that everyone thought he could be. Regardless of what he was going to be for us, we will still hear it.

I am probably higher on Lambo than anyone else that posts here, and I would still rather have Snider. I do understand though that at some point you have to give Lambo a shot. Now is probably as good a time as any, so I can understand the move, but I am still not a fan of it.

One other thing I don't really understand, kind of a tangent here, why did Baltimore want to trade for Snider? I ask that because, projections have Snider and Lambo with almost identical stats. Which basically says they are equal players, a couple differences, Lambo is younger and has more cost controlled years left. What not trade for Lambo and control him for 6 years instead of the 2 you would have with Snider

 

[thecrow124]

I think Tarpley is pretty high reward, actually. A lefty who can carry mid-90s deep into games with a plus curve and two other average offerings has a good skill set for a 2/3 type pitcher. But the risk is very high, given the consistency and maturity concerns.

It's also tough to fully evaluate the deal until we know who the PTBNL is. Is anyone out of the 2014 draft class especially interesting?

Third round pick Brian Gonzalez, they didn't have first or seconds round picks. Tim Williams mentioned another guy over at P2, but i don't remember the kids name.

 

[Darkstone42]

I just read that Ken Rosenthal is projecting a 4 year deal at less than $20 million per for Shields. Still well out of our price range, but it is getting to the point where we may actually want to start monitoring the situation a bit more closely. Possibly if it drops to 3/$54 range I think we could be players.

However, it still wouldn't follow the front offices MO, but at that point it wouldn't be out of realm of possibility.

With Shields, term is probably the bigger hang up, I suspect. Especially for the Pirates, since they have so many good arms so close, two TOR pitchers already in the Majors and under contract, and one more decent starter signed for a couple more years. A younger guy, sure, it would be more worth it, but Shields is too old for us to give more than 3 years to. We'd have to get him on a contract we could move when Glasnow and Taillon are both ready to go.

 

[Darkstone42]

Third round pick Brian Gonzalez, they didn't have first or seconds round picks. Tim Williams mentioned another guy over at P2, but i don't remember the kids name.

Keller?

 

[sychmd]

The problem is that Snider is going to Baltimore, where he will probably hit 20-25 home runs next year and we will have to hear how we got rid of him to early and now he is entering his prime and breaking out to be the player that everyone thought he could be. Regardless of what he was going to be for us, we will still hear it.

I am probably higher on Lambo than anyone else that posts here, and I would still rather have Snider. I do understand though that at some point you have to give Lambo a shot. Now is probably as good a time as any, so I can understand the move, but I am still not a fan of it.

One other thing I don't really understand, kind of a tangent here, why did Baltimore want to trade for Snider? I ask that because, projections have Snider and Lambo with almost identical stats. Which basically says they are equal players, a couple differences, Lambo is younger and has more cost controlled years left. What not trade for Lambo and control him for 6 years instead of the 2 you would have with Snider

they might have wanted lambo, but since he hasnt done much in the bigs, the bucs wouldnt get much so nixed the deal for both the reasons you mentioned as to why the O's wanted him and the minimal return we could get.
NH would rather get the better return from snider (hard throwing LHP with a 70 curve) coming off success like snider did (small N), and keep cost controlled lambo.

a last point no one has mentioned is lambo has the ability to play corner OF and 1B whereas snider is strictly a corner OF option. dont know who has the better OF arm, but the pirates do like versatility in their players.
currently we have options but no real 1B answers yet and lambo can be one of those if pedro tanks or is traded midseason for needed parts for playoff run.