2015 Pirates

[element1286]

I just don't think Clint believes in it.

 

[Darkstone42]

I just don't think Clint believes in it.

I kind of wish he would. Bastardo's likely atop the seventh inning guy totem pole with Holdzkom as of now, I would imagine, though. I'd like to think Clint would pick which one to use based on who was coming up, at least a little bit.

 

[element1286]

I kind of wish he would. Bastardo's likely atop the seventh inning guy totem pole with Holdzkom as of now, I would imagine, though. I'd like to think Clint would pick which one to use based on who was coming up, at least a little bit.

Yeah, wish he would base it on who was coming up more. Bringing in a RH 7th inning guy with 2 lefties and a switch hitter coming doesn't make much sense.

But I'm not a fan of the Tony Larussa school of bullpen management either.

 

[Darkstone42]

Yeah, wish he would base it on who was coming up more. Bringing in a RH 7th inning guy with 2 lefties and a switch hitter coming doesn't make much sense.

But I'm not a fan of the Tony Larussa school of bullpen management either.

Yeah, I think guys should be left out more or less as long as they match up well. I don't like the "closer" role, and I don't like not letting guys come out to start an inning after finishing the previous inning just because that's how it is.

I wonder if anyone will be so bold as to eliminate the role of starting pitcher someday, too...

 

[Darkstone42]

In any case, good trade for the Bucs. Bullpen talent is better now, and we kept our Major League assets to do it. I think we can just spend the rest of the offseason looking to upgrade where possible, because we don't have any true "holes" now.

 

[pixburgher66]

Get another SP and I'm fairly content.

 

[Darkstone42]

I would love Wade Miley, at least inquire on Hamels and see what kinds of offers we'd have to beat, and there are still a couple intriguing free agents out there we could sign, some on the cheap, and with a chance to overachieve.

Adding another pitcher could give us trade pieces to add a middle of the order bat, too, and that's what I'd really be after, but not if it means we have to open a hole.

 

[Darkstone42]

Unfortunately for us, I don't think we pair well with Arizona to get Miley. He'll cost Major League assets, and I don't think we have depth at their positions of need. Maybe an outfielder? Maybe Snider? But Snider is the Pedro and Polanco insurance plan, so unless we could upgrade somewhere else, I'd be a bit hesitant about doing that. I think Miley will be more valuable, so it's likely I would pull the trigger on that deal, but I doubt the D-Backs would go for it.

 

[Darkstone42]

Perhaps dangle Pedro there? It would only work if they buy him figuring it out at third base, though...

 

[thedddd]

if sell high is a second rate MIDDLE reliever, i say he has more value to us as a 3b OF and insurance for injury or polanco struggling.

otherwise we have tabata and lambo if we have a running into the wall or jammed wrist from diving to make a great play as the only backups and could create a major hole like last year in our lineup, esp with not having martin anymore.

Oh yeah with Snider his value is more apparent to the Pirates than a trade partner.

 

[thedddd]

Pedro and Snider are completely different baseball players. Snider has at least a clue about the strike zone, running the bases, hitting a baseball, throwing a baseball, and the game of baseball in general. It is more likely that he is actually figuring out major league pitching where as Pedro is not. Pedro in fact, going off of historical players of the game, has more of a chance of slipping over the cliff into the great abyss than he does of ever hitting like he did two years ago again.

Very true Snider is way more of a baseball player than Alvarez will ever be but was using the comparison of highest trade value in itself. They truly should have dumped Alvarez after the first playoff run.

 

[steelparrot]

Ya Snider would have been major overpay, Joely wont be missed much.

Have we ever done this much before the rule 5 Draft?

Usually we wait till January and dumpster dive.

At least we can shop at Walmart now.

 

[Illinest]

Very true Snider is way more of a baseball player than Alvarez will ever be but was using the comparison of highest trade value in itself. They truly should have dumped Alvarez after the first playoff run.

Alvarez has a career OPS+ of 105 and a homerun crown.
Snider has a career OPS+ of 95.

This is crazy. I'm not even defending Alvarez as much as I'm pointing out that Snider is a below league average hitter who is only capable of playing corner outfield, and he's not even all that good at that if we're being honest.

And now I'm defending Alvarez. He's actually got good range and a pretty decent glove. He's easily the smartest baserunner on the team. He stole 8 bases last year, and only got caught 3 times. That doesn't include all of the extra bases he's taken on heads-up plays. In that regard he's the anti-Marte. He is also a productive hitter. I can only assume that a few of you are comparing him to the sluggers of the recent past without giving consideration to the overall environment for sluggers. This isn't 2001 anymore. Pedro's 2014 season was actually better than the league average. Believe it or not.
If you think Pedro doesn't have any trade value....

 

[Illinest]

As for Bastardo - I am pleased with the move. I like him. I think he'll help us a lot.

 

[Darkstone42]

Alvarez has a career OPS+ of 105 and a homerun crown.
Snider has a career OPS+ of 95.

This is crazy. I'm not even defending Alvarez as much as I'm pointing out that Snider is a below league average hitter who is only capable of playing corner outfield, and he's not even all that good at that if we're being honest.

And now I'm defending Alvarez. He's actually got good range and a pretty decent glove. He's easily the smartest baserunner on the team. He stole 8 bases last year, and only got caught 3 times. That doesn't include all of the extra bases he's taken on heads-up plays. In that regard he's the anti-Marte. He is also a productive hitter. I can only assume that a few of you are comparing him to the sluggers of the recent past without giving consideration to the overall environment for sluggers. This isn't 2001 anymore. Pedro's 2014 season was actually better than the league average. Believe it or not.
If you think Pedro doesn't have any trade value....

I don't think Alvarez is without value, and I think he could be a piece in a move for a starting pitcher (a solid #3) if packaged properly. But trade value often has an element of "What have you done for me lately?" and that goes to Snider for sure, especially defensively.

Also, Snider is barely below average as a hitter for his career, and Alvarez barely above. Given recent trajectories, they're almost a wash. But Alvarez is now a first baseman (probably), and Snider is an outfielder, so if we're talking about overall value, Snider probably has the edge right now.

 

[thedddd]

Alvarez has a career OPS+ of 105 and a homerun crown.
Snider has a career OPS+ of 95.

This is crazy. I'm not even defending Alvarez as much as I'm pointing out that Snider is a below league average hitter who is only capable of playing corner outfield, and he's not even all that good at that if we're being honest.

And now I'm defending Alvarez. He's actually got good range and a pretty decent glove. He's easily the smartest baserunner on the team. He stole 8 bases last year, and only got caught 3 times. That doesn't include all of the extra bases he's taken on heads-up plays. In that regard he's the anti-Marte. He is also a productive hitter. I can only assume that a few of you are comparing him to the sluggers of the recent past without giving consideration to the overall environment for sluggers. This isn't 2001 anymore. Pedro's 2014 season was actually better than the league average. Believe it or not.
If you think Pedro doesn't have any trade value....

I think Darkstone stated it best so I won't add.... but on your last line I never stated Pedro has no trade value but he should have been dealt when it was at its highest. In all honesty that's how I feel about Snider right now also. I think this is his highest value but unfortunately his value is greater to the Pirates than any trade partner due to his ability to play OF.

 

[element1286]

Pedro is a better hitter than Snider, think that is pretty clear. I'll put my money on the guy who is has been an above average hitter for his entire career save one disastrous season over the guy who has been bad for 3 years and had a great 350 PAs last year.

As for value, ie replacement/defense, being below average in RF which Snider is, is about the same as being above average at first basemen, which is Pedro's likely outcome.

I'm definitely interested in year two of the new Pedro approach, I have a hard time believing he won't improve his offensive numbers assuming the new BB and K numbers are real.

 

[26 elroy face]

When and where did Snider become a smart base runner? I can't help but remembering him trotting over to 3B with Sanchez standing.

 

[thecrow124]

Alvarez has a career OPS+ of 105 and a homerun crown.
Snider has a career OPS+ of 95.

This is crazy. I'm not even defending Alvarez as much as I'm pointing out that Snider is a below league average hitter who is only capable of playing corner outfield, and he's not even all that good at that if we're being honest.

And now I'm defending Alvarez. He's actually got good range and a pretty decent glove. He's easily the smartest baserunner on the team. He stole 8 bases last year, and only got caught 3 times. That doesn't include all of the extra bases he's taken on heads-up plays. In that regard he's the anti-Marte. He is also a productive hitter. I can only assume that a few of you are comparing him to the sluggers of the recent past without giving consideration to the overall environment for sluggers. This isn't 2001 anymore. Pedro's 2014 season was actually better than the league average. Believe it or not.
If you think Pedro doesn't have any trade value....

I am not sure which sluggers of the recent past you are referring to, but the ones I point to most often that seems to encapsulate Pedro's best in my opinion are: Rob Deer, Pete Incaviglia, and Mike Pagliarulo who to this point in their careers is almost an identical twin to Pedro in every aspect. They all share the ability to have low averages, low on base ability, strike out at an alarm in rate and they all had a small stretch of time in their careers hit a lot of homeruns. Lastly, the three I mentioned all had a point in the I careers where the I ability to hit stopped altogether, and to a man it was right around their age 27 season, after which none of them were ever viable major league contributors again.

The only player to share the traits that I mentioned and still be able to sustain a productive major league career past their age 28 season was Craig Nettles, so history would tell us that Pedro will probably never be as good as he was last season ever again, and it is increasingly possible that by his last year of arbitration he will not have any trade value and he will also not be worth the money he will be awarded.

 

[Illinest]

When and where did Snider become a smart base runner? I can't help but remembering him trotting over to 3B with Sanchez standing.

I was talking about Alvarez. Snider needs to get on base more often before we can judge his baserunning, but I haven't seen much to suggest that he's good at that.

If anyone wants to parse smaller samples at all - Snider's numbers are greatly skewed toward a couple of half-seasons at the beginning of his career. He seems to be a pretty clear example of the young hitter who has some success until the scouts figure out which pitches he can't handle. His 2014 was solid enough that I like the idea of having him as our 4th outfielder but I think it is hugely premature to talk about him as a starter. He's a reclamation projection who might still work out.