2015 Off Season - Trade and Draft discussion!

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I wouldn't have made that trade without that pre-arranged, but I haven't heard any mention of there having been anything like that or any discussion.

Well maybe it is. Nobody knew BUF was in on ROR prior to the trade.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Philadelphia Flyers ‏@NHLFlyers3m3 minutes ago BREAKING: #Flyers have acquired Sam Gagner & a pick from ARI for Nicklas Grossmann & the contract of Chris Pronger

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
Pronger cap hit $4.9M. Actual salary: $575,000. As @TGfireandice adds, could go into the Hall of Fame on Monday.

Talk that Flyers/Leafs are talking Phil hard.

 

[dash]

Talk that Flyers/Leafs are talking Phil hard.

Well, nobody wants a flabby Phil (lol)

 

[BGDave]

Talk that Flyers/Leafs are talking Phil hard.

For?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

For?

I dunno. Giroux?

 

[Cobiemonster]

Hexy is doing terrific right now - cleared some cap space and cleared a spot on defense

 

[forty_three]

Philadelphia Flyers ‏@NHLFlyers3m3 minutes ago BREAKING: #Flyers have acquired Sam Gagner & a pick from ARI for Nicklas Grossmann & the contract of Chris Pronger

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
Pronger cap hit $4.9M. Actual salary: $575,000. As @TGfireandice adds, could go into the Hall of Fame on Monday.

The same Sam Gagner who was days away from being bought out?

Dave Isaac ‏@davegisaac
The Flyers just shed $5.2 million in one swoop.

and the Yotes are 5 million closer to the cap floor (lol)

Why are we talking "cap hit" with Pronger? His contract is pure circumvention. How did the Flyers clear cap space when they moved a contract that doesn't count against the cap?

 

[forty_three]

Someone dug up Sweeney's old hockey card

 

[dash]

Why are we talking "cap hit" with Pronger? His contract is pure circumvention. How did the Flyers clear cap space when they moved a contract that doesn't count against the cap?

Because Ed Snider has compromising photos of Gary Bettman with farm animals?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Why are we talking "cap hit" with Pronger? His contract is pure circumvention. How did the Flyers clear cap space when they moved a contract that doesn't count against the cap?

It does count against the cap. It only doesn't count against the cap if the team that owns the contract is up against the cap.

For Arizona, it helps them get to the floor.

 

[forty_three]

It does count against the cap. It only doesn't count against the cap if the team that owns the contract is up against the cap.

For Arizona, it helps them get to the floor.

But doesn't it only count for Arizona if they don't place him on LTIR? I can see it for them, they get 4.4m in "cap hit" for only 500k in actual salary. But they have to take him off LTIR, or let him announce his retirement.

The Jackets weren't against the cap with Horton, and had a ton of space after listing him LTIR. They still had to pay him, which they didn't like doing, so they gave the contract to someone who can afford it and got a lukewarm body for it.

Pronger's cap hit hasn't counted for the Flyers for years.



I also read that if the Flyers buy Gagne out, his cap hit will only be 695k or something. Maybe that's where the "shedding of salary" comes from.

I keep seeing Hextall being praised as a genius, but I must be missing something. Maybe I am too hung up on the rules or something.

 

[Cobiemonster]

The same Sam Gagner who was days away from being bought out?



Why are we talking "cap hit" with Pronger? His contract is pure circumvention. How did the Flyers clear cap space when they moved a contract that doesn't count against the cap?

His contract DOES count towards the salary cap - you're thinking in the regular season when they can put him on LTIR, but in the offseason, it absolutely does count towards the cap

 

[Cobiemonster]

But doesn't it only count for Arizona if they don't place him on LTIR? I can see it for them, they get 4.4m in "cap hit" for only 500k in actual salary. But they have to take him off LTIR, or let him announce his retirement.

The Jackets weren't against the cap with Horton, and had a ton of space after listing him LTIR. They still had to pay him, which they didn't like doing, so they gave the contract to someone who can afford it and got a lukewarm body for it.

Pronger's cap hit hasn't counted for the Flyers for years.



I also read that if the Flyers buy Gagne out, his cap hit will only be 695k or something. Maybe that's where the "shedding of salary" comes from.

I keep seeing Hextall being praised as a genius, but I must be missing something. Maybe I am too hung up on the rules or something.

He traded Nicklas Grossmann for a decent pick in either one of the next two years, and that's a damn good accomplishment

 

[davnlaguna]

Nope Prongers cap hit counts
It will help the Yotes reach the floor.
It also, technical, counts against the ceiling but you can go over the ceiling by that amount.

Coyotes could have played havoc with the UFA/RFA market. They could have picked up a few players and upgraded their team. By doing this they are saying to everyone that they are not even going to pay the minimum. They are writing this season off and are just waiting for the OK to move.
They will look at the cities that bid on expansion and pick the best city left after the NHL picks the markets they want.

 

[Cobiemonster]

This would have been all kinds of pathetic for the Panthers

 

[forty_three]

His contract DOES count towards the salary cap - you're thinking in the regular season when they can put him on LTIR, but in the offseason, it absolutely does count towards the cap

Nope Prongers cap hit counts
It will help the Yotes reach the floor.
It also, technical, counts against the ceiling but you can go over the ceiling by that amount.

Coyotes could have played havoc with the UFA/RFA market. They could have picked up a few players and upgraded their team. By doing this they are saying to everyone that they are not even going to pay the minimum. They are writing this season off and are just waiting for the OK to move.
They will look at the cities that bid on expansion and pick the best city left after the NHL picks the markets they want.

Yes, his contract is on the books, but as long as they LTIR him before the cutoff for the regular season, all is good. So it's not *really* counting against the cap in reality.

If, with Pronger's contract, the Flyers are 4m "over" the cap - they know they really aren't because they can paper shuffle that shit away. If the Flyers had to count his contract, they would have been over the cap every year for the last five. You can go over the cap as long as you are compliant by a certain date. The Flyers already know how far they can go over.


I get why Arizona did it, they let him "retire" and reach the cap floor while spending less of the money they don't have. I just don't get why everyone is saying the Flyers "saved" 4.5m. It was 4.5m in money they were never going to be held accountable for anyway.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Yes, his contract is on the books, but as long as they LTIR him before the cutoff for the regular season, all is good. So it's not *really* counting against the cap in reality.

If, with Pronger's contract, the Flyers are 4m "over" the cap - they know they really aren't because they can paper shuffle that shit away. If the Flyers had to count his contract, they would have been over the cap every year for the last five. You can go over the cap as long as you are compliant by a certain date. The Flyers already know how far they can go over.


I get why Arizona did it, they let him "retire" and reach the cap floor while spending less of the money they don't have. I just don't get why everyone is saying the Flyers "saved" 4.5m. It was 4.5m in money they were never going to be held accountable for anyway.

I don't disagree with all of this, my whole point is that moving Nicklas Grossmann was important in this deal because now it gives them more roster flexibility and more roster spots - and they don't have to worry about doing paper transactions with other players at the beginning of the season now that Chris Pronger's contract is off the books because you still have to consider the day to day salary that each player makes and how each day can affect the total on the salary cap when it's all set and done

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Yes, his contract is on the books, but as long as they LTIR him before the cutoff for the regular season, all is good. So it's not *really* counting against the cap in reality.

If, with Pronger's contract, the Flyers are 4m "over" the cap - they know they really aren't because they can paper shuffle that shit away. If the Flyers had to count his contract, they would have been over the cap every year for the last five. You can go over the cap as long as you are compliant by a certain date. The Flyers already know how far they can go over.


I get why Arizona did it, they let him "retire" and reach the cap floor while spending less of the money they don't have. I just don't get why everyone is saying the Flyers "saved" 4.5m. It was 4.5m in money they were never going to be held accountable for anyway.

The Flyers can buyout Gagner and turn his cap hit into just over half a mil this year. They save cap space by turning Grossman's $3 million cap hit into $600k.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

I for one think this whole Phoenix-Philly trade goes against the spirit of the CBA.

 

[awaz]

Yes, his contract is on the books, but as long as they LTIR him before the cutoff for the regular season, all is good. So it's not *really* counting against the cap in reality.

If, with Pronger's contract, the Flyers are 4m "over" the cap - they know they really aren't because they can paper shuffle that shit away. If the Flyers had to count his contract, they would have been over the cap every year for the last five. You can go over the cap as long as you are compliant by a certain date. The Flyers already know how far they can go over.


I get why Arizona did it, they let him "retire" and reach the cap floor while spending less of the money they don't have. I just don't get why everyone is saying the Flyers "saved" 4.5m. It was 4.5m in money they were never going to be held accountable for anyway.

IIRC, you can't put a player on LTIR until after the season starts. So each year of the past 5, the Flyers were under the cap on opening night. Then they could exceed the cap by Pronger's 4.9 mil by putting him on LTIR.

In addition, any money you don't use early in the season creates more cap space for you at the trade deadline. Having the Pronger contract on LTIR used up all the cap space the Flyers had for the entire season, rather than saving X dollars a week. That saved money can be used to add a bigger salary at the deadline. The Flyers weren't able to do that in previous seasons due to Pronger's contract. LTIR doesn't take the $$ off the cap, it allows you to exceed to cap by that $$. So according to the books, the Flyers were right at the cap for every day during the past couple seasons, so they cant 'bank' any cap space to use later in the season (ie trade deadline).

So, it's not really saving 4.9 mil in cap space, but it does add a lot of flexibility for the Flyers. And saves them from having to do some cap gymnastics at the beginning of seasons to get under the cap. I can't remember which season it was, but they sent a high profile guy to the AHL for a couple days just to keep his salary off the cap for the season to start.