2015 Off Season - Trade and Draft discussion!

[flyersfan4706]

This draft isn't even going to be fun. It feels like a job being this anxious.

I'm only half-kidding

 

[Nasty_Magician]

Any chance Philly drafts Provorov? If there

This draft isn't even going to be fun. It feels like a job being this anxious.

I'm only half-kidding

Agreed. Obviously the Devils can only get better but I have no idea what to expect with Shero in charge.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

This draft isn't even going to be fun. It feels like a job being this anxious.

I'm only half-kidding

I'm petrified. Think of it like the 2003 draft - imagine if your team winds up with the 2015 Zherdev or Jessiman amongst the sea of Staal and Suter and Getzlaf and Perry and Seabrook etc. This is a can't-fuck-this-up draft for so many teams.

 

[flyersfan4706]

Any chance Philly drafts Provorov? If there


Agreed. Obviously the Devils can only get better but I have no idea what to expect with Shero in charge.

I want Provorov or Zacha. Rumor is we are trying to trade up for Provorov.

I just know the Devils are going to ruin our plans, whatever they may be. Don't worry.

 

[flyersfan4706]

I'm petrified. Think of it like the 2003 draft - imagine if your team winds up with the 2015 Zherdev or Jessiman amongst the sea of Staal and Suter and Getzlaf and Perry and Seabrook etc. This is a can't-fuck-this-up draft for so many teams.

Yeah, Edmonton and Buffalo have got it easy knowing who they are picking and that they are can't miss prospects.

I have zero idea how Arizona-Toronto-Carolina is going to fall. Provorov, Zacha, and Crouse are the wildcards that are going to get thrown in their somewhere. If we are trying to find the Jessiman of this draft then I'll guess Strome. I really kind of hope he doesn't fall to the Flyers and we have to pick him out of obligation.

 

[forty_three]

Now. Hanifin projects as a 1A, right? Apt comparison.

Unless your point is that the draft is a crap shoot, which, of course it is.


When Kessel was 20, he scored more points in the NHL than Rychel had in the A. More games, but it was the show. Might as well compare him to Ovechkin.


I'm not arguing for or against the Jackets' need for Hanifin; simply playing devil's advocate. It just doesn't make sense for AZ to take less for this pick. If I'm you or CBJ, I'm more than happy with picking 8th just as I was with the Leafs picking 7th last year in a much weaker draft class.


What makes you so sure he'll be cheaper? Dave Bolland got $5.5m/yr just a year ago, and I'll take Anisimov over Bolland any day.

Like I said, he fits CBJ, which is awesome but what does that matter to AZ?

My point is not as much that it's a crapshoot (although it is), but more that you can't compare a beanstalk to a handful of magic beans. The Beanstalk is always worth more, being an actual beanstalk not a potential one. And I would readily trade that package for the beanstalk over the handful of magic beans. ESPECIALLY when there are three other handfuls of magic beans right there. Maybe not as nice a handful of magic beans, but a handful nonetheless.

And I could have compared Rychel to Crosby, or Toews, it doesn't matter. You said Haifin could become Weber. Maybe I should have said Rychel could become Zetterberg or Datsyuk. He was drafter higher than both of them. No one knows. Or he could be Brian Lawton. Hanifin could too.

If Sharp, Bickell, Vermette and Anisimov were all UFA at the same time, you think he'd get as much as the first three? He'll get more than the 3m he makes now, but all those guys make about twice what he does right now. And part of the reason Bolland got such a big deal is the cup he won. So, yeah. I'd love for Anisimov to have a cup on his resume by his next contract. I will tip my hat to him and wish him well wherever he goes. But even if he goes up to 5.5 mil, he's still cheaper than Sharp right now. And I like the idea of him being here during a contract year...

You're right, it doesn't matter to AZ. Just like drastically improving AZ doesn't mean shit to CBJ. Arizona wants to improve immediately to be attractive to KC, Portland or Seattle (errr, I mean "draw fans to Glendale"). So two NHL ready players and a later pick (IE: 2nd round) for one high pick should be enough. Giving them two NHL ready players AND another pick that is likely a sure-fire NHL'er next year for one sure fire NHL pick is... wait for it... too much.



Edit: I should throw in the caveat that almost any other draft class, I take the deal. It's just this specific year where the risk to pick 8th vs 3 is so much lower that I feel it's too much.

 

[forty_three]

with Boll off to the Coilers this opens up a Vrbata to CBJ for the 8th pick ... yup ... sure does

Nope, sorry. Everyone thinks we should just give the 8th pick away as a bonus on whatever trade or deal we are trying to do.

Any chance Philly drafts Provorov? If there


Agreed. Obviously the Devils can only get better but I have no idea what to expect with Shero in charge.

Anyone beyond 5th should grab Provorov if he's there.

But I am really hoping they don't. Devils won't, I imagine, but everyone else after five could use him.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

My point is not as much that it's a crapshoot (although it is), but more that you can't compare a beanstalk to a handful of magic beans. The Beanstalk is always worth more, being an actual beanstalk not a potential one. And I would readily trade that package for the beanstalk over the handful of magic beans. ESPECIALLY when there are three other handfuls of magic beans right there. Maybe not as nice a handful of magic beans, but a handful nonetheless.

And I could have compared Rychel to Crosby, or Toews, it doesn't matter. You said Haifin could become Weber. Maybe I should have said Rychel could become Zetterberg or Datsyuk. He was drafter higher than both of them. No one knows. Or he could be Brian Lawton. Hanifin could too.

If Sharp, Bickell, Vermette and Anisimov were all UFA at the same time, you think he'd get as much as the first three? He'll get more than the 3m he makes now, but all those guys make about twice what he does right now. And part of the reason Bolland got such a big deal is the cup he won. So, yeah. I'd love for Anisimov to have a cup on his resume by his next contract. I will tip my hat to him and wish him well wherever he goes. But even if he goes up to 5.5 mil, he's still cheaper than Sharp right now. And I like the idea of him being here during a contract year...

You're right, it doesn't matter to AZ. Just like drastically improving AZ doesn't mean shit to CBJ. Arizona wants to improve immediately to be attractive to KC, Portland or Seattle (errr, I mean "draw fans to Glendale"). So two NHL ready players and a later pick (IE: 2nd round) for one high pick should be enough. Giving them two NHL ready players AND another pick that is likely a sure-fire NHL'er next year for one sure fire NHL pick is... wait for it... too much.

Do you think Anisimov, Erixon, Dubinsky and the 19th pick was a fair package for Rick Nash?

 

[forty_three]

Do you think Anisimov, Erixon, Dubinsky and the 19th pick was a fair package for Rick Nash?

I would say now that it looks like the Jackets fleeced the Rags on that one. Could swing further in that direction if the Jackets wind up using Anisimov/Rychel to land a top pairing D man, especially after flipping Erixon for Morin.

At the time I thought it was a solid trade for both teams, as much as I hated seeing Nash go.

 

[dash]

Flyers will draft Provorov as long as they keep Bob Clarke away from the podium...

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I would say now that it looks like the Jackets fleeced the Rags on that one. Could swing further in that direction if the Jackets wind up using Anisimov/Rychel to land a top pairing D man, especially after flipping Erixon for Morin.

At the time I thought it was a solid trade for both teams, as much as I hated seeing Nash go.

I agree that the trade turned out much better for CBJ but let's say it's an even trade. CBJ got two C's, good C's but not exceptional C's, a first round defensive prospect and the 19th pick in the draft in exchange for their most valuable commodity, a commodity who had produced less in each of the past 3 seasons than the season that preceded it (albeit playing on bad teams, but) and was one of the highest-paid players in the league at the time.

If Arizona values the 3rd pick as a top commodity, a commodity who's production hasn't diminished in recent memory and is anticipated to rise significantly in the coming years, and one that doesn't impact a team's cap number in a time where teams are scrambling to control spending, why wouldn't they look for a return exceeding that fair exchange?

 

[forty_three]

If Arizona values the 3rd pick as a top commodity, a commodity who's production hasn't diminished in recent memory and is anticipated to rise significantly in the coming years, and one that doesn't impact a team's cap number in a time where teams are scrambling to control spending, why wouldn't they look for a return exceeding that fair exchange?

I know where you're coming from, and like I said in my added caveat any other year the offer looks much better.

But if Arizona is overvaluing their commodity and demanding to high a payment for it, it doesn't mean that the jackets (or anyone) needs to pay it. Remember, business 101, you have a product (that pick) and someone else has a product that is worth nearly as much that's competition. And there are others without a large degree of drop in value after that. A situation unique to this year. Any pick in the top 10-12 is worth what top 5-6 were in years past.

Losing two assets and letting ARI still get to pick in the top ten is too much. The Jackets are not desperate. What if they offered the same package to Boston to sign and trade Dougie Hamilton? Would it then be necessary to also ask Boston for #14? I mean, sure, you ask. But I'm not heartbroken if they keep their 14th. Because Hamilton is pretty much that guy we need.

Absolute Best case; move up, get Hanifin and still get to pick 8th, losing only two assets and a later pick or two.
Alternate Best case; Swap 1sts and one player to move up to, say 5th or 6th, guarantee Provorov or Werenski, and still keep either Rychel or Anisimov to use with some of the 2nd and 3rd rounders to land another D man.
Alternate Good case: Just go ahead and pick 8th, and hope Provorov is there. Werenski or Carlsson will almost definitely be there. Then use Later picks and Anisimov and Rychel to get a D man from a cash strapped team.

Or, hold onto 8th and dangle it to someone picking 12th or later to get their guy and add Rychel or Anisimov to cherry pick their D. Like Boston.

Looking at it that way, it seems excessive to do the deal Cox is throwing out. Will I hate it if it happens? I'll learn to accept it because Hanifin. But there is no need to overpay this year. There just isn't. And the Jackets have almost 9m in space. Hanifin is not the only possible solution to their problem.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

cesspool saying Neely wanted to move Lucic and Chiarelli didnt ... one of the factors why Chiarelli was fired

 

[mattola]

cesspool saying Neely wanted to move Lucic and Chiarelli didnt ... one of the factors why Chiarelli was fired

im fully 4000% sure Lucic wont come to play for the vancouver canucks ever

 

[flyersfan4706]

Soderberg to the Avalanche.

 

[dash]

im fully 4000% sure Lucic wont come to play for the vancouver canucks ever

That's 3890% more than hockey players give Matty...

 

[dash]

Soderberg to the Avalanche.

Bye bye O'Reilly

 

[flyersfan4706]

Bye bye O'Reilly

Got to wonder who gives into ROR's contract demands

 

[mattola]

Bye bye O'Reilly

still have to sign him right? pressure? was it a conditional pick? I doubt that. maybe O'Reilly is on his way out...

 

[dash]

Last I saw ROR was looking for 8 years and 60 million...